Not My Experience
Dec 12, 2005
5:20 PM EDT
|When I wanted to buy a Linux desktop, I checked the web sites of Dell, IBM and HP. HP was the only one that had some models available with Linux. Although they keep "HP recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional" ad visible on every page, they still have most business models available with Linux or Free DOS. I find that to be encouraging and should be rewarded. It is true that they don't support Linux 100%, but to me it is better than nothing and you wont find similar offers from other OEMs. I would rather see a glass as half full instead of half empty.
Follow these links to see what they still offer.
You don't need to go through sales office or agents, you can just order on-line without any MS TAX. The prices are even very competitive with other OEMS. Best of all, I personally like HP hardware and desktop models better than other OEMs.
Dec 13, 2005
12:00 PM EDT
|My biggest gripe is that SUSE works a whole lot better than Red Hat on most of their platforms but they have tight ties with Red Hat and WORTHLESS ties with SUSE. Now... that may be more of Novell's fault than HP's... not sure.|
Dec 13, 2005
12:27 PM EDT
|I really don't care about their ties, all I care about is that they have desktops with Linux or Free DOS so I don't have to pay for Windows needlessly. No matter what OS they had, I was going to replace it any how to change the partitioning and configuration to something I want and like. My main point is that, HP is better than any other OEMs in supporting Linux simply because they offer what others don't.|
Dec 14, 2005
8:00 AM EDT
|You'll save at most about $30 by not getting Windows. Truth be told, most of the large vendors can probably get that price down even lower ($20 or so).
So... after 3 years you want to dump your old server.... a license of WinXP (or whatever) is going to cost $130 or so. That's going to impact your resell value. Let's say you buy a nice xw4300 for around $1500. In 3 years, it's showing its age, so you sell it (ebay or whatever). Let's say the resale value is $500-700. You have a choice. You can either sell to the Linux crowd (small market that probably doesn't want a big name box anyhow) or you can sell to a broader market since that stupid COA key is glued to the case. Choice is yours. Without Windows the buyer has to automatically factor in an additional $130 (even then, it's probably through dubious means) for a WinXP key. At $500, you box suddenly becomes a $630 deal. Meanwhile, because my box has a stupid key glued on the box, the buyer will take mine at a flat $500.
So... if you're doing this for some twisted economic reason... you're probably not thinking clearly.
Also.... if you do have a need to run VMware with a Windows instance, having a license key already there really helps cost wise.
I'm not a Windows fan, just want to make sure that people understand the full economics. I may well be true that Microsoft makes money off of W2K3 in its various configurations, but OEM'd by the major vendors, they don't make squat from WinXP.
You're starting to see vendors offering Windows-less boxes either because they have a huge markup on their Windows licenses or simply because there is a "market" for people that just can't stand Windows. Has little to do with a market demand for boxes that cost $30 less.
Just to make matters worse.... let's take a look at a xw4300 from HP.com today (12/14). Let's see I can get a base config with WinXP Pro (not Home) with a P4 630 3Ghz, 512MB, 80G SATA, 48xCD for $899. OR I can get an xw4300 with Linux (or nothing) with a P4 521 2.8Ghz, 512MB, 40GB SATA, 48x CD for $921. Hmmm......
Granted, they are running a special... but why doesn't the special carry over to the Linux line??
Btw.. removing the discount.... and making the Linux box on par with the base Windows config... you'll get: xw4300 (WinXP Pro) 1135.00 xw4300 (Linux) 1100.00 And what do you know!! Looks like Linux will save you $35!! In my opinion that $35 difference is worth a whole lot at resale time.
Yes... I know some of you will say... well I don't want M$ to have that $35... and that's fine. Just don't start thinking you're saving $100+ by getting a box without Windows. And realize the resale values 3 years down the road.
Also... since I've introduced a HUGE amount of variables in your purchasing decision. Realize that once M$ Vista comes out, the value of a WinXP key goes down dramatically about a year after Vista is introduced. So timing can be everything.
If you're dead set against Windows find a vendor that just doesn't do Windows. HP ain't it.
Dec 14, 2005
9:46 AM EDT
You went on a hyperbolic tangent in your selection and reasoning. Without nit picking your senario, here is mine
Go to this link
Select "Customize & buy" once for Linux & then Windows. Take the default configuration for each and check out. You will see what I have listed below
_______________________ ******** $837.00 ********** HP Compaq dc5100 Small Form Factor - Alternate OS- HP Compaq dc5100 Small Form Factor - Alternate OS- SuSE Linux OEM- Thermal Kit - SFF- Country Kit dc5100- Intel® Pentium® 4 520 w/HT (2.80GHz, 1MB, 800MHz FSB)- 512MB PC2-3200 DDR2-400 - Integrated Intel® Media Accelerator 900 No Floppy Drive SFF- 160GB Serial ATA 7200RPM HD 1st 48X CD-ROM Drive- Integrated Broadcom NIC HP PS/2 scroll mouse (carbonite)- Standard keyboard PS/2- Desktop accessories flyer Warranty - 3 years - parts, labor, onsite - next business day ______________________ ******** $968.00 ********** HP Compaq dc5100 Small Form Factor- HP Compaq dc5100 Small Form Factor- Microsoft� Windows� XP Professional- QuickBooks Simple Start Special Edition- Thermal Kit - SFF- Country Kit dc5100- Intel� Pentium� 4 520 w/HT (2.80GHz, 1MB, 800MHz FSB)- 512MB PC2-3200 DDR2-400 - Integrated Intel� Media Accelerator 900 No Floppy Drive SFF- 160GB Serial ATA 7200RPM HD 1st 48X CD-ROM Drive- Integrated Broadcom NIC HP PS/2 scroll mouse (carbonite)- Standard keyboard PS/2- dc5100 Restore CD- Desktop accessories flyer Warranty - 3 years - parts, labor, onsite - next business day _______________________
The hardware is exactly the same. The Linux one is $131 less than the Windows one.
You were off by $101 in the saving.
We are talking about Desktops not servers. I don't understand why you selected xw4300 workstation. For normal user, this would be a huge over kill
Forget about resell. In three years, a machine would be obsolete and would be hard to sell. Most likely you will end up giving it away or use its parts.
To me, HP is still the best option.
Dec 14, 2005
5:12 PM EDT
|I work at an HP shop. I have not problems with them. I also prefer the quality (and it is HUGE) that the workstation line gives you. Our standard workstation (SBC) is the xw6200 (won't tell you our price.. it's obscenely cheap), but our group (SCI) is evaluating the xw4300 instead.... it's cheaper and as you mentioned we don't need the overkill (xw6200 supports 2 Xeons). But we do need a corporate platform, not a consumer product.
I'll probably agree with you that HP is the best option. And I think you can probably get that dc5100 down to that $30 difference I was talking about.
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