I'll be impressed when...
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick Dec 18, 2006 9:11 AM EDT |
...a pig can do it. Dang, I slay me. The Etch installer is very nice. I started futzing with it when it was in its early release stages, and even with all the rough edges it looked good. I think it's the best Linux installer of all. Gnome and KDE don't come all prettified like they are on the buntus and other distributions. You have to tweak them to suit. But for me it's a small price to pay to get Real Debian with all of its flexibility and upgrade-ability. Debian is still the only Linux that you can upgrade indefinitely without ever doing a reinstallation. Can't do that with RHEL or SUSE, and you sure as heck can't with the buntus. Yeah, I know some folks were able to upgrade from Dapper to Edge. I'll match at least equal numbers who ended up with hosed systems. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 9:16 AM EDT |
> You have to tweak them to suit. There is something unnatural about a user who doesn't tweak and personalize their desktop, no matter how it starts out ;-) |
| swbrown Dec 18, 2006 2:28 PM EDT |
The one thing it's missing is to install Xen (with standard bridging that doesn't cut dom0 off). Just like LVM, it's one of those things you should setup anyway even if you aren't using it, as you will likely eventually want to, and you want that moment to be painless. For server installs, it's really a must now. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 2:33 PM EDT |
> The one thing it's missing is to install Xen Well, perhaps that should be under the server options, but like LVM, not everyone will want or use it. |
| tuxchick Dec 18, 2006 2:37 PM EDT |
Ye gods, it's annoying enough that modern distros insist on installing LVM and RAID. Don't want them on most of my systems. Same goes for Xen and SELinux. I don't like the trend towards enabling Avahi on everything either. Anyone who wants them knows how to get them. Making them defaults is dumb. |
| dek Dec 18, 2006 4:00 PM EDT |
@ tc > Dang, I slay me. Please do! That way the rest of us won't have to . . . . . (Ducks and runs for cover) :-) I do agree with tc though about installing and enabling everytthing -- including the kitchen sink. I prefer a minimalist approach where I can add stuff if I find a need for it. Apparently, bloat isn't only a windows problem, Don K. |
| scrawler Dec 18, 2006 7:01 PM EDT |
Quoting: Debian is still the only Linux that you can upgrade indefinitely without ever doing a reinstallation. Have to nitpick, sorry. Arch Linux never needs a reinstallation either. |
| swbrown Dec 18, 2006 8:31 PM EDT |
"but like LVM, not everyone will want or use it." LVM doesn't harm you to have it, and if you don't have it and find a need for it later, you're basically screwed if you didn't set it up in the beginning. Things like that should be the defaults. As such, Debian's partitioner now makes it essentially the easiest choice. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 8:50 PM EDT |
> LVM doesn't harm you to have it, and if you don't have it and find a need for it later, you're basically screwed if you didn't set it up in the beginning. I guess you'd remember that the next time round :D Seriously, while I can see advantages with Business, I've yet to see any desktop user who needs or wants it. Sorry, but it's yet another app that should remain optional. |
| tuxchick Dec 18, 2006 9:39 PM EDT |
Not true. EVMS, which is a more advanced incarnation of LVM, can be added to any system after installation. And removed if you change your mind. It's weird to advocate larding systems with stuff they don't need. It's just a source of trouble- updates take longer, and you have more potential security holes and dependency problems. Anyway the #1 reason to not be forced to have a bunch of stuff you don't want is because you don't want it. dek, I challenge you and scrawler to a duel. I figure a ten-year Arch and Debian test ought to settle it definitively. As for you, o dek, I fling sharpened Vista CDs at you. Frisbees of death! |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 9:47 PM EDT |
> Anyway the #1 reason to not be forced to have a bunch of stuff you don't want is because you don't want it. I'll second that one! |
| dcparris Dec 18, 2006 10:35 PM EDT |
TC, are you, per chance, a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan? I mean, all this talk about slaying yourself and others... It just sounds like you've been swimming in Buffy's holy water hole. And sharpened Vista CD's? C'mon! Take that vista out, and put it on a box. That'll teach 'em. Of course, their boxes might get owned, and then you'd feel guilty... aw never mind. |
| swbrown Dec 19, 2006 2:46 AM EDT |
"Not true. EVMS, which is a more advanced incarnation of LVM, can be added to any system after installation. And removed if you change your mind." EVMS was somewhat on the dead side last I checked. "It's weird to advocate larding systems with stuff they don't need." The cost is very close to zero with LVM as it's already in your kernel and has a minimal footprint. It'd kinda be like saying Debian is lard on Slackware, as you don't need real package management. Since this is a Debian thread and not a Slackware thread, I don't see why anyone would want fewer features in return for no benefit. :) |
| jdixon Dec 19, 2006 4:54 AM EDT |
> It'd kinda be like saying Debian is lard on Slackware, as you don't need real package management. Stating the obvious will get you nowhere. :) OK, now it's a Slackware thread too. > ...are you, per chance, a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan? Isn't everyone? |
| und0 Dec 19, 2006 10:57 AM EDT |
>dek, I challenge you and scrawler to a duel. I figure a ten-year Arch and Debian test ought to settle it definitively I'm reaching that goal, i think i've installed Slink on 1999, running Sid from basically day one, nVidia TNT wasn't supported by the stable XFree86, and updating daily. I could say i've only seen the Slink installer... (= |
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