Let's talk about games

Forum: LinuxTotal Replies: 57
Author Content
jacog

Jul 17, 2007
6:38 AM EST
Now, before I start... three things.

1. Yes, I know a lot of what I am about to spew is "unrealistic", but humor me. 2. Yes, I do know there are other efforts out there that may seem similar to my own, at a glance. 3. There's really only two things.

A phrase you read very often on web forums is "these days I only boot into Windows to play games". And this is true for myself as well. I shun things Microsoft, but I always find myself back in XP to play Oblivion, Neverwinter Nights II, Psychonauts etc. (I play a lot of games... I LIKE playing games). One can argue that there are many free games available for Linux, and emulation can take care of some of it too (Oblivion runs very well under Cedega, for example). But in reality this does not cut the cheese. It needs major developer support, and until it gets it, many a casual user is unlikely to change to any flavour of Linux.

Major game developer/publisher support for Linux is unlikely to happen currently for a few reasons:

- There has been a general decline in PC game sales, consoles have gone up - The perception is that too few Linux users would buy games (free, as in free-loader) - Microsoft give good developer support, and DirectX development means deployment on XBox and Windows is easy - Linux remains perceived as a tech heavy and complicated OS by many .. and a few more.

Fact is... I don't think you can convince the masses at all that Linux is a viable gaming platform. Something more drastic is needed in order for this situation to be corrected. So, I have taken out my big pipe, and am smoking away merrily whilst spewing out really bold ideas, hoping that someone with lots of money will go "Heyyy, that's great!" and then give me lots of money so I can start building, campaigning, and marketing the crap out of it all.

The way I see it a few things must be built (some are interdependant, so digest fully):

1. A complete cross-platform development solution, perhaps with a unified build system that can compile and cross compile anything you develop for various platforms at once. I like graphics APIs like Ogre3D and Irrlicht since you can easily switch between OpenGL and D3D, but I am thinking more complete than those even. The API should cover every possible thing a developer could possibly want to use for your game. It should constantly grow and improve, and in the end... the weight of developing a "game engine", becomes someone else's responsibility. And when you are done coding and you hit compile, you end up with well-optimised binaries for mutltiple platforms. Would be nice if a company like id would be kind enough to invest in the project by donating the full wad of their engine to it. :P

2. An excellent support service for the above.

3. An open "gaming OS". The use of this would be if hardware manufacturer X wished to build a console or media set-top, they could run this, and immediately there's be games available for it.

4. A content delivery system kind-of like Steam. The difference being that this one would be largely white label, and will have access to other such services via the same tool. See, if a harware manufacturer buids his own PC-console, he makes no money at all by "taxing" his users when he sticks a licensing fee on any games sold for his platform. This is how people like Sony get rich. So, if he chooses to, hardware maker X could team up with a software partner that will offer this as a subscription service to all its customers, providing updates to purchased games, selling droves of "casual" games, etc. As a user you also then have the option of pointing it to other services of its kind. Maybe even one for completely free or oss games, with an easy facility for you to donate money to free games that you like, if you wish to. All installed games will be run from this interface.

5. A distinctive brand name for this pseudo platform. For now I call it Bayonet (hell, email me if you want to know why. If you see the name on a game box, you know that it will run on Windows, Mac, Linux, your Bayonet-compatible set-top box etc.

6. A tool that can easily assess your hardware, rate it for performance, check if it can run the gaming system, whether a certain game you wish to evaluate will run on your system etc. It should also take care of anything to do with core functionality, including downloaduing and installing the core libraries, the content delivery system, and perhaps even take care of configuration of certain things.

7. The company managing this needs to have a kick-ass marketing and business development department. You can't launch any of the above unless you have managed to convince at least a few developers to develop for your system, and these developers need to have developed/ported at least 20 major titles by the time you go to market with any of it. The corporate engine needs to function as well as the gaming engine.

8. A new, independent content rating organisation. Won't go into this, but the ESRB sucks like a Hoover.

Ok, my fingers are getting tired now... :)

There are many obstacles here, and many I have already found ways around. I have questions too, things like the GPL... v2? v3? ... will v3 end up being so damned restrictive that none of the above could be build in a way that it is sustainable? Also things like "Who will pay for all this?", but for now I am treating is all as a big hypothetical project with hypothetical investors and hypothetical staff that will earn hypothetical salaries - until all the rough edges are smoothed out and it starts to look like a complete business plan.

So in stead of trying to muscle Linux support out of the market, instead build something that is good for everyone. It is in the spirit of what makes a free/open world so great.

Any thoughts?
tuxchick

Jul 17, 2007
7:05 AM EST
The whole computer gaming industry is a mess. Some aspects of it are pretty cool- it's gaming that has driven advances in video, sound, and 3D. But at the price of depending almost entirely on the whole Windows development ecosystem. It's difficult to port a complex game to any other platform.

Which doesn't even address the whole problem of 99% crap games. It's like a committee of stunted, anti-social 12-year olds are in charge. Guns, cars, drugs, and hos. Sure makes me want to run out and buy a bunch of games. :P

I'm keeping an eye on the Wii- that looks a lot more fun than trying to figure out how to use all five mouse buttons and the keyboard all at the same time.

dinotrac

Jul 17, 2007
7:11 AM EST
>I'm keeping an eye on the Wii

Not only that, the Wii seems more friendly to games that are not in the Training for Columbine II curriculum.
azerthoth

Jul 17, 2007
7:37 AM EST
Dino, is that an invitation to open a dialog on the societal impetus that makes things such as columbine probable?
Sander_Marechal

Jul 17, 2007
8:52 AM EST
Quoting:Dino, is that an invitation to open a dialog on the societal impetus that makes things such as columbine probable?


Let's not. Please. There's e-mail for that. And Usenet. Back on topic:

Quoting:There has been a general decline in PC game sales, consoles have gone up


Which is a reason to move into Linux, not a reason to stay out of it. There are quite a few reasons that it hasn't happened yet. I touched on them in a post in this thread, about 2/3 down: http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/25680/ but in recap:

1) MS's anti-OpenGL crusade, cobined with the fact that DirectX isn't too bad if you can stomach the COM model 2) Lead times. Even if publishers *did* move into Linux, we wouldn't know for at least 2-3 years. 3) Existing, unportable code. So look to startups and fresh companies, not today's AAA houses.

Quoting:A complete cross-platform development solution


What you're proposing is an engine, not a developer's platform. We already have great, cross platform engines and many are under open source licenses. Even your little ID fantasy has come true years ago. Currently every ID engine except the Doom III engine is open sourced. (Downloads here: http://www.idsoftware.com/business/technology/index.php)

Quoting:An open "gaming OS"


Got that too. It's called "Linux".

Quoting:A content delivery system kind-of like Steam.


Most people I know hate Steam. Too bad for them they like the games that Steam provides, so it's put up or shut up. Let's not do Steam. Not to say that some sorts of open game server framework wouldn't be nice, but it should be *nothing* like Steam.

I'm a long time member over at the gamedev.net forums. If you'd like game developers commenting on your idea I suggest you post your ideas there as well.
dinotrac

Jul 17, 2007
9:03 AM EST
>Dino, is that an invitation to open a dialog on the societal impetus that makes things such as columbine probable?

I have not interest in that. Was just being a little flip in responding to TC's comment on the general nasty state of video games.
tuxchick

Jul 17, 2007
9:05 AM EST
>>Dino, is that an invitation to open a dialog on the societal impetus that makes things such as columbine probable? > I have not interest in that. Was just being a little flip in responding to TC's comment on the general nasty state of video games.

Geez, I got it. :) Anyway I'm too busy campaigning against legs to get involved in a big discussion right now.
jacog

Jul 17, 2007
12:06 PM EST
Quoting:Which doesn't even address the whole problem of 99% crap games. It's like a committee of stunted, anti-social 12-year olds are in charge. Guns, cars, drugs, and hos. Sure makes me want to run out and buy a bunch of games. :P


I agree here. Mostly it's because there's a perception that the target market for games is teenage boys. All too often whenever there's a woman in a game, she's just there to be ogled at. The industry has tried to address this in the past... but unfortunately, these efforts tend to be rather stupid. Purple Moon software, for example... They set out to make "pink" games aimed at teenage girls, but ended up making these really insulting titles that aid the stereotype that all a girl is interested in is fashion and chasing after boys. And then there was the pink Playstation.. what the feck is it with all the freakin' pink? My opinion is that they should not try so hard to target a demographic. but rather just aim to make games that don't alienate any.

....

Sander:

Nope, you got your terminology wrong... not an engine... I am proposing an API. And yes, there are many. I have tried Irrlicht, SDL, Ogre3D and even ClanLib. All great, and yes I know the previous gen. Quake / Doom engines are open sourced. I am well aware of all this... but most of the above are purely just catering to graphics and a few things besides. None of them are complete game development APIs. There's a lot you have to accomplish besides rendering graphics in order to make a game. What I am proposing is having a large, well supported, API that aims to stay as state of the art as can be, make it easier for developers to develop, offering a complete solution that will compile binaries across all supported platforms without you having to change a line of code. The build system would then also build the game in a way that can easily be maintained via the content delivery system. That's actually probably a big discussion on its own, actually. And yep, will eventually take the proposal to other sites as soon as I have a site up with the skeleton of the proposal on it.

Re: Steam... yes, it's slow, takes a year to start up, and I have heard it occasionally trashes your installs... so no, not like that. I just needed an example of a content delivery system.

And yes, I agree on your points about Microsoft's anti-GL-ness.

> Got that too. It's called "Linux". Yes yes... of course it'd be Linux, what else? :)



There is actually a bit of commercial Linux gaming happening on occasion... Penumbra Overture, for example... newish horror adventure game - not too shabby.
tracyanne

Jul 17, 2007
12:12 PM EST
Most of the games I come across, that windows users wanting to consider Linux use, are not your first person shooter.

They are not full of guns violence and Misogynist themes.

The games I come across are crossword puzzles, word games, etc, all written for Windows by companies like PopCap and None of the Big names in Gaming even get a look in.

Some, but not many can easily be run on Linux using WINE. These are the sorts of games that people I deal with want to run on their Linux box if they can. These are the sorts of games that stop them from moving to Linux.

Yes there are some games of this type on Linux, but not many.

And yes frozen bubble is very popular.

But the comments I get are to the effect that most Linux Games look like they were written in the late 1980s early 1990s, and a great amny are actually ports of old games from the 80s and 90s.

I've spoken to PopCap and their response is that they "don't support Linux.... End of subject."

Scott_Ruecker

Jul 17, 2007
12:23 PM EST
jacog: You should revise your post, flush out the ideas and submit it as an article..
Sander_Marechal

Jul 17, 2007
12:54 PM EST
Quoting:The games I come across are crossword puzzles, word games, etc, all written for Windows by companies like PopCap and None of the Big names in Gaming even get a look in.


Go ahead and code! These things should be pretty easy to build using Python + PyGTK + Glade. I'd say that the biggest challenge would be getting some decent SVG art. So spend a few hundred dollars on that (raise it, or pay it yourself and consider it your donation to FOSS. That's what I'm going to do).
tracyanne

Jul 17, 2007
1:03 PM EST
@Sander Good point.
jacog

Jul 17, 2007
1:20 PM EST
> jacog: You should revise your post, flush out the ideas and submit it as an article..

Ok, will do that very thing. Will need a week to go dig up all my links and research though. No use spewing stats and such if I can't back 'em up.

tracyanne: You are right... the casual games market is huge, and in researching gaming for women, I have read articles saying that women twix the ages of 20 and 35 account for the biggest revenue within that market. and overall I believe (guessmembering here) account for 50+ % of the market as a whole. Er, there's more, but my mind just drew a blank. :) Perhaps I'll do as suggested and make an article out of it.

Part of what I am also proposing is to create an alternative to the ESRB. My reason for this has partially got to do with the casual games industry. Windows Vista has built in parental control schemes which rely entirely on ESRB ratings. The problem is that smaller developers can't afford the fees required to get an ESRB rating, which effectively declares their games evil on any system where this is switched on.

I think my proposal leans more towards the "revolutionalising the industry" side of the scale than just getting games for Linux. But that's thinking a bit too big, it seems... yet, the more things you add to your idea, the more you realise that other things also have to happen to make it work, and before you know it, you're writing science fiction. :)
Sander_Marechal

Jul 17, 2007
1:34 PM EST
Quoting:Part of what I am also proposing is to create an alternative to the ESRB


An alternative is already underway. I read a news article on it on gamedev about a year ago. I can't find the link at the moment though, but it was pretty good. It had several categories and each category was rated independently instead of the current combined ESRB rating. It's also designed from the get-go with parental controls in mind.
jacog

Jul 17, 2007
1:40 PM EST
Oh excellent. The ESRB don't actually play the games they rate either. They just watch a video submitted by the publisher. Can you remember the name of this other organisation?
Sander_Marechal

Jul 17, 2007
2:20 PM EST
I've been googling for about 20 minutes and I haven't found it yet. I do remember that it was powered by technical folk, recognizing that parents et. al. want objective information about a game, and not by the policy makers, marketers or the "games are bad" lobby. IIRC they were working on some XML scheme for encoding it all.
tracyanne

Jul 17, 2007
5:22 PM EST
is this http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=4636 what you are looking for sander?
Sander_Marechal

Jul 17, 2007
7:53 PM EST
No. It's similar in that PSV Ratings also uses multiple categories instead on one overall rating for it's content, but it's not what I was looking for.
Sander_Marechal

Jul 17, 2007
7:56 PM EST
Ah found it :-) It's TIGRS: http://www.tigrs.org/ and there was talk about embedding it in Debian packages with debtags: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-games-devel/200...
tracyanne

Jul 18, 2007
12:00 PM EST
@sander: One of the things that PopCap Games do is they have a value add, where if you purchase a game from them you get to register on their competition board, and upload you high scores to it, so that you can compete with other users of the games.

I'd like to see or be involved in doing something like that with free Linux Games.

The Games Free and Open Source. An offer to register for a small fee on a competition board with forum features. Free membership for contributors - something like that.

Contributors could be anyone who codes, designs graphics, designs Game scenarios. Everyone else would be using the games like any person who uses proprietary games now, but wants to be in the competitions.

Another possibility is the offering of small prizes for competition winners - say over a set period.
tuxchick

Jul 18, 2007
1:01 PM EST
I collected some more suggestions for wannabe Linux game programmers, along the same lines of what Sander suggested:

Quoting: I'm working on some stuff using python + pygame + pyOpenGL + pyODE.

- Python is extremely easy to learn and to program in. http://www.python.org

- Pygame is basically a simple way of accessing the SDL libraries (images, fonts, sound, mouse, keyboard, CDROM, joystick, and timers) from python, making visual games easy to create. http://www.pygame.org

- PyOpenGL is an interface between python and OpenGL and python that lets you add 3D capability. http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net OpenGL documentation is at: http://opengl.org http://www.rush3d.com/reference/opengl-redbook-1.1/ http://www.rush3d.com/reference/opengl-bluebook-1.0/

- PyODE is a physics simulator library that uses ODE (Open Dynamics Library) from python, and lets you make things fall under gravity and bounce off each other, move vehicles by turning their wheels, have jointed creatures. Nice stuff. http://pyode.sourceforge.net ODE is at http://ode.org

Another thing I've become fascinated with lately, is RenPy, which is a python+pygame based program for creating interactive, visual stories (they are generally called games, but I consider them interactive fiction) known as Ren'ai ("Ren'ai" is Japanese for romance). One of the things that I love about this is the high proportion of women involved in their creation and consumption. But perhaps that shouldn't be so surprising as the stories focus upon relationships and personality rather than killing and conquest. Ren'ai is apparently very big in Japan, but almost unknown in the west. RenPy is at: http://renpy.org/wiki/renpy/Home_Page About 60 ren'ai games/stories: http://www.renai.us/special/all/ RenPy has an enormous community: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/

You don't need to know python (or any computer language) to use renpy. My 10 year old niece is currently making a ren'ai story using renpy. It isn't as sophisticated as something that some of the renpy gurus can make, but the fact that she can do it at all is wonderful.

The best thing is that all the above are completely free. They are open source, and cost nothing to download, use, or redistribute.
Sander_Marechal

Jul 18, 2007
1:33 PM EST
@tracyanne: I'd be very interested in taking part in such a project. I love creating small games. Especially the kind that don't need complicated 3D engines or tonnes of content in order to finish. That's why I love working on gnome-hearts (http://www.gnome-hearts.org), though sadly a commercial webdesign project has prevented me from working on it for the past few months.

@tuxchick: That's some good info in there. Quite a few I didn't even know about yet (like PyGame). Thanks!
tuxchick

Jul 18, 2007
1:42 PM EST
well Sander, it's something I've been wanting to try for a long time and I've always been too busy. I'm not interested in working for a typical Training For Columbine II sweatshop, but small brain games are a lot of fun. Then someday maybe something kewl in the same family as Myst and Riven. When those first came out it was all starting from scratch, and inventing everything, and working on underpowered hardware. It's a different world now, and I bet it's more feasible to develop those kinds of games, at least technically. Don't know what the market would support, but that's a separate problem.
Sander_Marechal

Jul 18, 2007
1:59 PM EST
IIRC the market for small games is very large. People with fulltime jobs typically don't have time to play the big games. It's just that you are competing with many more other games.

I think one of the biggest benefits of writing small games (besides that it's actually possible to finish and polish them on your own) is that you can use all those high-level languages and libraries that make programming them so much faster. You can't use those in big, heavy games because of the overhead. Python is too slow for a good looking 3D shooter, but perfectly suitable to small 2D puzzle/action/brain games. Besides, it's polish and gameplay that really make a game stand out from the crowd, not 3D effects.
tracyanne

Jul 18, 2007
10:17 PM EST
Spammers advertising, no less
jacog

Jul 18, 2007
11:27 PM EST
And so effective too... makes me want to rush out and buy gaskets.
theboomboomcars

Jul 19, 2007
5:36 AM EST
Well at least he was on topic with his spam.

Whenever I read about games, I am really looking for somewhere to buy foam and gaskets.
dinotrac

Jul 19, 2007
6:20 AM EST
This is driving me crazy...

I got up this morning, took Mrs. to work, fed the kids and sat down to the computer. Checked e-mails, ruminated over an announcement of great interest to my business partner and myself (ps -- it involves a company moving to a SugarCRM-like model from a less-open one).

Then I thought it might be nice to play a computer game. Nothing fancy -- just Frozen Bubbles.

But...what if those bubbles started leaking out of my computer? Shouldn't I seal it up to keep that from happening?

Gaskets...that's what I need. Gaskets. Where, oh where, can I find some gaskets? Surely someboy somewhere knows where gaskets can be found.

A tisket a tasket, got to find a gasket. If only to keep my brain from seeping out my ear.

Got a pain in the gasketintestinal track.

Help me!!!!!!!
azerthoth

Jul 19, 2007
12:04 PM EST
Oh noes, someone broke the Tamper Evident Label near dino's ears. Ah wait thats ok we can stop the leakage with some Self Adhesive Composite made out of some kind of rubber (Which should give some added safety during the next round of forehead pounding too).
WPvanPaassen

Jul 27, 2007
12:05 PM EST
Hi,

Just wanted to let you guys know that I've ported PopCap's Games Framework to Gnu/Linux. Check it out at http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/tuxcap It might be useful considering your plans

regards W.P.
Bob_Robertson

Jul 27, 2007
12:30 PM EST
"I've spoken to PopCap and their response is that they "don't support Linux.... End of subject."" However, Pyrogon has ported PopCap's very popular NingPo Mahjong as a Linux native program: http://pyrogon.bookofhook.com/games/ningpo/

Indeed, the "small" games market is big, and when they are selling their CDs for $5 at BestBuy there is no incentive to produce them for Linux. They are making their money with little or no effort or advertising. The market may be big, but each individual game is very small and "cheap".

In comparison, Linux users are well known as technically savvy. They're not browsing at BestBuy's discount software rack.

Another huge market is the kids and educational software. The cliche' that I read one was, "If the kid brings home a Dora the Explorer game and it doesn't run right away, the parents are going to ditch Linux and go back to Windows where it will run even if it runs badly."

WINE is only so-so at recreating the crappy bugs of Windows, so lots of the kids software won't run under WINE. Since the kids software doesn't bother checking first before utilizing shortcuts and work-arounds for Windows bugs, it won't run under WINE where those bugs don't exist.

I've contacted the producers of those games, and 100% of them don't give a flying fart about Linux, because it would cost them to reproduce a product which they have been shipping and making money on for 10 years and it's still selling to Windows users.

Maybe this will change as the work-arounds of Win9x finally break in Vista, and producers are forced to re-write the programs or not sell any. Maybe. But without a concentrated effort at telling the producers that _IF_ they produce for Linux they _WILL_ sell product, they won't think it's worth their time to do it.

tracyanne

Jul 27, 2007
4:43 PM EST
@WP I'm not sure what you get, there seems to be no download for the framework, in fact in seems to be licensed under a license that doesn't allow me to obtain the source code anyway.
jdixon

Jul 27, 2007
5:03 PM EST
> ...Indeed, the "small" games market is big...

Actually, the apparent success of games such as Dirk Dashing (http://www.dirkdashing.com/) and Ancient Empires Lux (http://sillysoft.net/ael/) give me hope that the small game market may be moving in our direction.
WPvanPaassen

Jul 28, 2007
2:08 AM EST
@tracyanne, the code is in cvs and fully functional, the included demo's work fine and I've ported my own game without problems as well. The license is popcap's, it's a BSD like license with advertising clause so you can obtain and use the software (it's also in cvs so read it and see for yourself). I'm personally not happy with this license because it's incompatible with the GPL therefore I asked PopCap to dual license it under GPL or even use the new BSD style license , see here http://developer.popcap.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17635#po... Maybe you can back me up on this because the PopCap framework is widely used for casual games and is a great framework, they wouldn't use it themselves if it wasn't :-)

@anyone The main problem that I've encountered the last ten years is not the lack of frameworks, languages or libraries to develop games, there's plenty of them, but the lack of free professional looking graphics/art. I think this would be priority number one to solve, so I propose to put effort in a sponsored site for free professional game art focusing for starters on 2D (casual) games. I'm convinced that once this is in place you'll see an eruption of new games. I'm curious to know what you guys think of this, it's probably not a new idea but I haven't seen it in the wild yet.

regards W.P.



jacog

Jul 29, 2007
1:25 AM EST
@WP:

There are indeed many engines out there that are cross platform and open source, but it'd be nice to have at least one that will become a buzzword among developers. Something that everyone has an interest in developing, and developing for.

You are right about the art thing too. What would help in general though is to get more people intvolved... and I think what might work there is to have a thriving OSS Demo scene. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene

But instead of everyone writing their demos out of cpu-hacks in assemlby, the focus could be on the core technology all being in the aforementioned buzz engine. So everyone contributes to the technology, but you get your fame through your creations. Any any of the demos can be compiled for any platform that has the libraries installed.
jacog

Jul 30, 2007
1:21 AM EST
So... question / opinion to ask....

Microsoft have defined a "standard" for gamepads that forms part of its Games For Windows TM thing. The API is called XInput. Now... anti-MS as I am, I am rather glad someone is taking some steps towards standardising gamepad interfaces for PCs. I have a Logitech pad that uses this new standard (I use the word loosely), and while a lot of our older games just don't recognise that I even have a gamepad attached, I can't deny that I think standardising this is necessary.

So... my question... will Microsoft start pissing ants if Linux adopts/supports the same standard natively?

There are at least two projects that I have found that already do offer kernel drivers for this standard... but what if it became a standard addition to a distro? I am pretty sure that people like Logitech probably have to slip Microsoft a few quarters for the washing machine to let them make hardware that supports their standard, so my feeling is that a reverse-engineered open source implementation probably doesn't go down too well with them.
Bob_Robertson

Jul 30, 2007
6:24 AM EST
"will Microsoft start pissing ants if Linux adopts/supports the same standard natively?"

If history is any indication, they will try to "extend" the standard to make any Linux implementation incompatible and disfunctional.
jacog

Jul 30, 2007
6:34 AM EST
Seems they already have done that to a degree by monkeying with the way the device is identified as a USB device to the system. Not quite sure where I read that, and my knowledge of these things is too limited to give a detailed explaination, but either way, the one Linux kernel module I looked at does actually address this problem and works around it.
tracyanne

Jul 30, 2007
3:29 PM EST
@WPvanPaassen: I've posted a reply to your comment. Perhaps if other people developing, or interested in developing games for Linux were to get involved
tracyanne

Aug 02, 2007
2:15 AM EST
I've never used cvs before. But I seem to be able to login anonymously using

cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@tuxcap.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/tuxcap login

then when I try to get a copy of a mudule, whatever that is with

cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@tuxcap.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/tuxcap co -P modulename

What do I replace modulename with?

I'd like to set up Cervisa, but I can't even get it to work with the commandline
WPvanPaassen

Aug 02, 2007
8:17 AM EST
cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@tuxcap.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/tuxcap co -P TuxCap

Cheers W.P.
tracyanne

Aug 02, 2007
12:51 PM EST
Now all I have to do is learn C++
gsteve441

Mar 09, 2012
1:40 AM EST
[editor: spam removed]
jacog

Mar 09, 2012
3:29 AM EST
Spammers, they're like thread necromancers.

But since this has been bumped, I might add that some of my above points seem to have come to pass. On point 4 - We have Desura now, and while still young they are doing a great job, and going so far as to open-source the client software.

Aaaand not meaning to start a flame-war, but mono has proven to be good for gaming. I'm still enjoying Spacechem as one of my favourite games from last year, and it exists on Linux because of mono.

Similarly, one of Steam's top-selling games from 2011 is currently being ported to mono. I am not allowed to say which game it is, but it's very exciting stuff. They are having some difficulty due to bugs in mono, but are working with the mono guys directly to fix these.
tracyanne

Mar 09, 2012
3:48 AM EST
@jacog, that's excellent news
gus3

Mar 09, 2012
6:36 AM EST
See, spammers aren't totally useless. They give us the chance to re-examine previous conversations and add any new, pertinent information.

Well, that and they make good targets for crossbow practice.
montezuma

Mar 09, 2012
9:17 AM EST
Linux is great. When I used Windows I used to waste too much time playing games. Now with Linux I am productive again.
jacog

Mar 09, 2012
9:56 AM EST
Productivity is overrated.
montezuma

Mar 09, 2012
1:14 PM EST
LOL jacog you are probably right there. Too much intensity these days.
tuxchick

Mar 09, 2012
3:53 PM EST
Thread necromancers :D
cr

Mar 09, 2012
6:35 PM EST
They're enough to give a thread an Inferi complex.
caitlyn

Jun 04, 2012
6:44 PM EST
OK, jacog, we supposedly have new and perhaps wonderful new releases of Linux games. Has the Linux world gotten any better for gamers yet?
BernardSwiss

Jun 04, 2012
10:49 PM EST
I'm late to this discussion, but "Bayonet" sounds a little at odds with the desired attitude as stated.

So for my own very minor contribution: "Parkour"

From Wikipedia:
Quoting:Parkour (French pronunciation: [paʁˈkuʁ]) (abbreviated PK) is a physical discipline and non-competitive sport which focuses on efficient movement around obstacles.
helios

Jun 05, 2012
1:02 AM EST
The Windows games/software the school sends home or suggests the parents buy is a big, big problem in my world. And you are right...for all the reasons you stated and more, Wine/Crossover does not even come close to running these games and apps.

I don't know how many support calls I've made to HeliOS computers and found "bejeweled.exe" and the like sitting on the Linux Desktop. Of course, when it doesn't execute, I get the calls and complaints. What we were able to do recently is purchase a 10 license XP disk and install it via VB. The price was fairly reasonable and even with just one gig of RAM assigned the guest OS, the disks ran ok...it's just the overall fact that so many schools and other institutions require Windows-only software and apps.

Yeah, it's been a huge problem for us.
tracyanne

Jun 05, 2012
2:35 AM EST
Ken, not only is there a Linux version of Bejeweled, but the windows version will run fine with WINE
jacog

Jun 05, 2012
4:44 AM EST
caitlyn - Indeed the wind is starting to blow in a new direction.

The so-called "AAA" publishers still show little interest in our platform of choice, but that does not matter much to me personally since most of that stuff tends to be soulless unimaginative shlock anyway.

The indies are the ones warming up to Linux as a port of call, and for some of them it has served them well (others not-so-much). A hefty chunk of games funded via Kickstarter are promising Linux support, and indeed a lot of them have relied on funding from Linux users to reach their funding goals.

I read a blog post from Gaslamp Games about their game Dungeons of Dredmor which pointed out how little money they are making from Linux users. While true, it seems to ignore the fact that they released the Linux port several months after the Windows version. Many would-be Linux gamers keep Windows around for gaming and likely bought the game on Windows on day 1 since that was what was available.

The indies also tend to have little to no marketing budget, and rely solely on word-of-mouth. Linux press seldom makes a big deal of gaming, and generally less likely to even mention smaller less-known games.

Unrelated - I wish Linux users would stop complaining about games that run via solutions like Java and Mono. Those two have brought us Minecraft, Spacechem and now Bastion.
theboomboomcars

Jun 05, 2012
3:43 PM EST
jacog, I bought the HiB that contained Dungeons of Dredmor because the game sounded fun. I really liked playing the game, but since I can't get more past the third level because the game crashes, now I can't play for more than 5 minutes without it crashing. I am running the latest update from Desura(from when I stopped trying to paly). The support from the forums has been hostile from the beginning. I have not interest in buying the exansion pack when I can't even play the original.

I think the reason Gaslamp Games isn't making the money off from linux users is because they drove off with a broken game, that remains broken update, after update, and a hostile response when questions are asked.
JaseP

Jun 05, 2012
4:30 PM EST
Oh,... by the way, I found this today,... very helpful resource...

http://www.lgdb.org/

Let's you search with a number of filters, including popularity, license, cost, genre, graphics engine, latest release date, etc. ... For instance, it let me find all Space simulations that use OpenGL and were free (as in free beer), or free (as in open source).

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