My god!
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| AwesomeTux Mar 19, 2009 12:38 AM EDT |
KDE users are just as bad as Mac/Apple fanboys. And the author — as I can’t call him/her by his/hers real name — don’t understand free software at all. Let’s see, GNOME is developed by GNU, that’s why the name starts with a ‘G’, and who knows software freedom more than GNU? No one. Especially not the KDE developers. The idea of GNOME is “Get it when you need it” paraphrased of course, that’s also Ubuntu’s idea, notice their 650MB liveCD. Nautilus has extensions. Get them as you need them. I personally don’t like KDE because it is WAY too bloated, with half of the features being ones I’ll never use. I don’t even know what “rename files and folders in the File Open/Save dialog boxes” means. As far as I can see you can rename files in Nautilus by right clinking them and selecting “Rename…” or in Edit>Rename. There are also other ways you can make GNOME have the rename file option in Open/Save Dialogs. |
| tracyanne Mar 19, 2009 1:48 AM EDT |
I'll go back to using KDE when the features are back...... maybe. |
| tracyanne Mar 19, 2009 2:04 AM EDT |
Quoting:But when I have tried to use it I find myself on the lookout for unnecessary restrictions and I am unable to just relax and enjoy the OS. For example, the last time I tried Ubuntu, there was no way (in the GUI) for using a printer that was shared by a remote CUPS server. I had to install the printer driver locally. My immediate thought was, “ah the lack of options Nazis are at it again”. And that just killed the experience for me. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how I feel about it. What do you think? What in the world is he going on about? I installed Ubuntu with GNOME 2 weeks ago, and I had no problem using my printers, both of which are are shared from a file/print server. |
| cabreh Mar 19, 2009 3:25 AM EDT |
@AwesomeTux: Remember it's an alien. @tracyanne: You installed Ubuntu! Welcome to the dark side. :) |
| Alcibiades Mar 19, 2009 3:36 AM EDT |
Don't share the author's enthusiasm for KDE, which always seems to require one extra step to do anything, but there really is something worrying about Gnome. Its the 'one size fits all' feeling. Its the view (common to Apple as well) that there really is such a thing as being easy to use, and that HIGs are valuable and definitive, and that we should do studies on them, and that then we can find out whether menu bars associated with each window are better or worse than a contextual menu bar at the top of the screen. For instance. Whereas in fact, what is easy and natural for some is not for others. What is easy and natural when you first use an interface becomes time consuming and infuriating after you are experienced. I prefer Kate to Vi, but that gives you a flavor of it - just how different the requirements of different users can be. A classic example is bookmarks or desktop - take a look sometime at how people have organized them. You see clearly that the most unintuitive methods for me are simple and natural for you. You also see how quickly people can navigate around what may be objectively a longer path, once they are used to it. Perhaps the problem with Gnome's approach is that it completely denies the effect of learning and adaptation on usability. Anyway, I am not often driven to KDE to get away from Gnome, but am quite often driven away from it, and mostly to Fluxbox. And Nautilus, well. Is there a slower file manager anyplace? How did they get it so slow, did they put in loops with delays to stop you having folders with more than 20 items in them? Contrast it with just about any other FM, and you see that this must have required some real work! |
| tuxtom Mar 19, 2009 4:04 AM EDT |
Quoting:KDE users are just as bad as Mac/Apple fanboys....and your subsequent rant is even worse. Just saying. |
| jacog Mar 19, 2009 5:43 AM EDT |
Leeeeeave kay dee eee allooone! /ChrisCrocker |
| tuxtom Mar 19, 2009 6:21 AM EDT |
Hey look there, that's the way you do it. You run the desktop with the K-D-E. I want my... I want my... I want my K-D-Eeee. I want my... I want my... I want my K-D-Eeee. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 19, 2009 6:50 AM EDT |
As long as there's no KDE/Qt equivalent for GTK's Glade XML there's no way I'm moving to KDE/Qt. Developing desktop apps would just be too painful. |
| tracyanne Mar 19, 2009 7:22 AM EDT |
@cabreh, the file/print server is Mandriva |
| cabreh Mar 19, 2009 7:51 AM EDT |
@tracyanne, I knew you wouldn't give it up completely. In fact my mail server is CentOS. So, I'm not completely Ubuntu either. |
| tracyanne Mar 19, 2009 7:59 AM EDT |
I mentioned in some other posts, my review of the BENQ with EeeBuntu on it, that what with KDE4 being somwhat feature poor, I felt free to try other distros, and as KDE is missing features I used a lot in 3.x, I don't miss them in GNOME, as I don't expect them to be there. So here I am using Intrepid. It has some nice features when you enable Compiz, and I think it might actually use less memory than Mandriva with KDE. It actually seems a bit more responsive on the desktop.... and it sort of grows on you..... like a fungus :) |
| jacog Mar 19, 2009 10:31 AM EDT |
tracyanne, I would like to see a list of the features you miss. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 19, 2009 10:34 AM EDT |
A wild stab: Multi-column display on Dolphin/Konqueror. TracyAnne has mentioned it quite a few times in thiese forums. |
| azerthoth Mar 19, 2009 10:41 AM EDT |
Awesometux a little logic please. Your first comment is based on emotion, so your being just as guilty as the author of opinionation. Your also confusing software freedom and user freedom, there is a rather famous piece of history where linus torvalds, tired of not being able to make a change to his desktop that he wanted sent a patch to the gnome devs to rectify the issue ... the patch was sumarily rejected. As to bloat, a few years ago I ran a simple test, as 99% of the time users see what distro authors pack into their various DE decisions for their distros. I installed just the core of gnome and just the core of KDE. KDE came in slimmer ... upon subsequent reboots and memory tracking over everything from just started to a series of daily tasks ... KDE came in with a lighter resource foot print. So the bloat you see is from distros packing things in by their own choice. Now before you go calling me a fanboi ... I'm a Fluxbox user almost to exclusion. |
| rm42 Mar 19, 2009 10:47 AM EDT |
@AwesomeTux Believe me, I understand free software quite well, and I do respect Gnome for being such. But, just because a project is free software it does not mean that it is above being critiqued. You wrote: “I don’t even know what “rename files and folders in the File Open/Save dialog boxes” means. As far as I can see you can rename files in Nautilus by right clinking them and selecting “Rename…” or in Edit>Rename.” It means that when you are saving a file, for example, and as you are doing it, you realize that there is an existing file with the wrong name or with the same name that you want for the new file, there is no option to rename it. One has to save the file, possibly with the wrong name, and then open a different application, navigate (again) all the way down to where the file(s) reside(s) and fix things. That is a usability problem and has been brought to the attention of GTK developers for years. They refuse to budge. “No renaming files for you!” You also wrote: "There are also other ways you can make GNOME have the rename file option in Open/Save Dialogs." I would be very interested to see what those "other ways" are. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 19, 2009 11:04 AM EDT |
azerthoth, rm42 and others: The Gnome guys can be budged though. I remember an issue with some lacking feature in Metacity a few years ago. People wrote patches but (like Torvald's patch) it was rejected. Fast forward two years of discussion over the patch. Someone simply went through the top X distro's on DIstrowatch and noted whether or not that distro manually applied the Metacity patch. Almost all did. Upon seeing these stats the Metacity developers committed the patch. It doesn't make much sense pleading and discussing the "rename while saving" feature or other rejected features with the devs. Just prove that it is something that people really want and use. Objectively. Submitting a patch to all the major distros for example goes a long way. |
| bigg Mar 19, 2009 11:13 AM EDT |
I don't understand where this discussion is going. The devs have to make decisions about what is included and what isn't. That is true of each and every project, including the kernel. You might disagree with their decisions, but decisions have to be made. The joy of FOSS is that you can take their work, modify it, and use/redistribute it as you wish. They have control of their project but not control of the software itself. |
| DarrenR114 Mar 19, 2009 1:58 PM EDT |
You GNOME/KDE fanbois will be forever in the dark until you realise the power of THE best DE: Fluxbox http://fluxbox.org |
| jdixon Mar 19, 2009 2:05 PM EDT |
> THE best DE: Fluxbox. XFCE rules. :) |
| techiem2 Mar 19, 2009 4:42 PM EDT |
Fluxbox on the desktop, XFCE on the laptop (well, actually I have a fluxbox install on the laptop too in case I need it - i.e. for some wine games that don't play nice with compiz - , as well as a kde4 install to test out now and then). :) |
| rijelkentaurus Mar 19, 2009 7:55 PM EDT |
I left Mandriva at the last release because of inconsistencies in the behavior of KDE 4.1. It was good but not good enough. I went to Ubuntu and used Gnome as long as I could...and did an "apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" because Gnome drives me crazy and I severely hate it...just personal preference. Kubuntu was better...but it was still too Ubuntu for extended use. I have PCLOS 2009 installed now with KDE 3.5.10, it's quite nice. I will play with the new Mandriva and if KDE is good I will purchase a new PowerPack and install it. It's all about what works best for you...Gnome is not my cup of tea...KDE has been my first choice since I tried it on SuSE 9.1. I can take or leave the rest, they usually only come into play on a lower-powered system, or a virtual machine. |
| caitlyn Mar 19, 2009 8:42 PM EDT |
I think G-d has very little to do with desktop environments. I do see, however, that desktop wars continue unabated here on LXer.com and do take on some of the qualities of religious wars. Other times it sounds more like "My pop is better than your pop! Nyeah!" The choice of DE, like the choice of distro, depends on what I'm doing and the hardware involved. What I like on a small screen is different from a larger laptop screen is different from a really large monitor. The horsepower the system has (CPU & RAM) also influences my choice. I like Xfce a lot. I think LXDE shows great promised. On my netbook I created a custom desktop comprised of PekWM, fbpanel, pcmanfm and VL-hot. I alternate between that arrangement and Xfce. On my ancient Libretto with the 7" screen subsitite pcmanfm with xfm or xfiler in the PekWM desktop or else I just run JWM. KDE? I like a lot about it but I find it to be a resource hog. I don't much care for GNOME but that's just me. |
| jacog Mar 20, 2009 4:50 AM EDT |
I don't think of KDE4.x as the next KDE after KDE3.x really. In my opinion they should have just named it something else since it's a totally different animal. I don't think of these things as missing features... there's nothing missing, it just is what it is. I like it as it is now, but yes, I do wish it was not so heavy on resources. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 20, 2009 4:59 AM EDT |
Quoting:I do see, however, that desktop wars continue unabated here on LXer.com and do take on some of the qualities of religious wars. Well, it does become a bit like Vim vs Emacs. A bit tongue-in-cheek and all that :-) |
| tuxtom Mar 20, 2009 8:47 AM EDT |
jacog, I couldn't agree more. I would rather use Windows XP than KDE4. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 20, 2009 9:04 AM EDT |
while True: soap.apply(tuxtom.mouth) |
| jacog Mar 20, 2009 10:02 AM EDT |
tuxtom: I would not go that far. :) |
| tuxtom Mar 24, 2009 7:58 AM EDT |
Sander, your algorithm is asserting that I'm telling the truth. I'd rather eat soap than sh.............aving cream. KDE4 is bad software. Real bad software. It is the Vista of Linux desktops. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 24, 2009 9:39 AM EDT |
Actually, it's a reference that you should wash your mouth with soap after sh....aving cream has been pouring out :-) |
| tuxtom Mar 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT |
Oh Sander, I've had my mouth washed out with soap plenty-o-times, so the reference isn't lost. It really isn't so bad unless you fight it and snort some backwash into your nose, a scenario which I call the "Millennium Edition Effect". On the other hand, sh...aving cream is something I refuse to entertain. KDE 4 is sh...aving cream to Windows XP's soap. Thankfully there is plenty of delicious KDE 3.5 available to wash out the foul taste of both. Mmmmmmmm. Yummy! |
| tuxchick Mar 24, 2009 10:49 AM EDT |
sh....aving cream, be nice and clean, shave every day and you'll always look keen! So. why can't I remember stuff that matters?? |
| tuxtom Mar 24, 2009 10:54 AM EDT |
Like beans? |
| gus3 Mar 24, 2009 11:08 AM EDT |
tc, Did you ever hear Dr. Demento's update with Two Live Crew lyrics? The entire stanza was nothing but censor's bleep until he got to the refrain. |
| Steven_Rosenber Mar 24, 2009 2:19 PM EDT |
Xfce tends to grow on you. I'm planning to go back to it at some point. I've been getting along pretty well with Fvwm2 and the ROX-filer, and it hasn't been the worst thing in the world to hack into the text files, maintain the menu myself and start/stop services in the console. You do tend to learn a lot about what lives where in the system. I have neither the time nor the expertise to write shell scripts to automate some of this, so for that reason I miss things like the network management utilities in GNOME and KDE, and while I'm OK at configuring Fvwm, I find much of the documentation a little too arcane. It kind of reminds me of the whole mutt/procmail/fetchmail/postfix configuration dance that I tried to do for a month. It was just too hard to get everything the way I needed it to be, and it sent me running back to Thunderbird. |
| bigg Mar 24, 2009 3:35 PM EDT |
I always end up going back to GNOME. XFCE is okay, I simply like GNOME and hate KDE (though 4 is better than 3.5). The only frustration I've had thus far running Slackware is that I can't find GNOME for 12.2. The GNOME support on Slackware leaves something to be desired. |
| tuxchick Mar 24, 2009 4:09 PM EDT |
LOL gus3, no I haven't heard that. All I have are a couple of old Dr. Demento CDs to amuse me... "boot to the head!" /walks away humming Dead puppies aren't much fun |
| jdixon Mar 24, 2009 9:43 PM EDT |
> The GNOME support on Slackware leaves something to be desired. The Gnome support for Slackware always left a lot to be desired. That said, you appear to be correct that none of the three major Gnome package systems have yet released for 12.2 (That's GSB, Gware, and Gnome Slacky for those counting. No, I didn't include Dropline, as by the time you get done installing it, you're not running Slackware any more). Have you considered trying to install from source via Garnome? You can find it at http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/garnome/2.24/ |
| jacog Mar 25, 2009 3:40 AM EDT |
Cows With Guns ftw! .. ok *ahem* back to you... |
| tuxtom Mar 25, 2009 3:47 AM EDT |
I'm a Happy Boy. Oh, ain't it good when things are goin' your way, hey hey? |
| bigg Mar 25, 2009 5:44 AM EDT |
@jdixon I'm still using 12.1 on my office desktop. I decided to wait until GNOME is available to upgrade, but so far have had no trouble updating all of my packages, so it hasn't been an issue. My home desktop is 12.2, so I have to use XFCE. I don't use my home computer that much so XFCE is good enough. It would nonetheless be nice to have GNOME. |
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