Blaming closed models for Linux's woes
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| gus3 Jun 12, 2011 7:07 AM EDT |
This article is such a mush of complaints (the Skype debacle is the fault of Linux? Really?) that it's tough to take it seriously overall. But the author's concession and return to Windows will be greeted with cheers in Redmond. "See? Open Source really is too hard to use, even for professional types." And Microsoft gets another PR flack. |
| mark_oz Jun 12, 2011 7:25 AM EDT |
If you want a computer that runs Linux, and you don't want hassles with drivers ... buy one with Linux pre-installed, just as you would for Windows. Pick a computer with ATI or Intel graphics, as closed nVidia drivers are going to give nothing but trouble especially when updating the kernel or similar. If you don't like GNOME, run KDE. The KDE applications are better anyway. Der. It's not rocket science. |
| techiem2 Jun 12, 2011 7:59 AM EDT |
*sigh* (yes, I'm still alive, just been really really busy - new job, new VPS, etc. etc. Pester me if you really want details). Haven't we seen these arguments before a few dozen times? The latest hardware doesn't work? Blame Linux, not the manufacturers for not releasing drivers/specs. Video drivers aren't good? Blame Linux (Personally, I've RARELY had problem with the closed Nvidia drivers on any machine). Printing? Blame Linux, not the manufacturers for not releasing drivers/specs and always changing their printing protocols. Power Management/Suspend. Ok, he's probably got a point there. But from what I've gathered (especially from watching the OpenMoko project), good power management is quite difficult to get working on a single set hardware base, let alone taking into account the massive variety of hardware the kernel has to deal with. Office software: OOo and LO work fine for me...saying it's not good without specifics of what is missing doesn't mean much. Sound architecture: I see articles whining about this all the time. I never had many problems with Alsa, and most of my setups are running Pulseaudio just fine, including discreet 6 channel output (in fact I built a mixer array to take advantage of it - but that's another topic - see my blog if you want to know about my insanity. :P). Flash: Again, proprietary software. No surprise there. Skype: Linux has ALWAYS been second class for Skype, and now that MS owns it.....yeah... Poor Quality of Desktop Apps: Uh....2 examples does not make a good universal case. And I've been quite happy with Firefox myself..it seems to be improving each release. On to his update: Half baked DEs: I haven't really used the ones in question, but that is a good point. Don't call something a release until it's really ready. Quoting:Does it seems normal to you to avoid commodity hardware just on the ground that it’s “too new” to be properly employed by your OS of choice? As a matter of fact, yes it does, when your OS of choice is one where the manufacturers stubbornly refuse to release drivers or enough information for the OS developers to create them in a timely manner. Again, not the fault of Linux - as a former kernel developer, I would think he would know well the issues related to hardware support. |
| r_a_trip Jun 12, 2011 9:24 AM EDT |
He'll be back. No matter how bad the situation gets with Linux, it is invariably always a 100 times better than with Windows. He's just forgotten what an inflexible, rotten dungeon Windows really is. That straight jacket will start to pinch real soon. It's just a shame that this rant will be practically around forever on the Internet and it will serve as ammo for the Cult of Windows. See, even the freetards can't use their own dog food. |
| DrGeoffrey Jun 12, 2011 9:37 AM EDT |
And with one ill-conceived rant he's destroyed his reputation, and his credibility. Hopefully, for him, it was worth it. Unless his entire rant was tongue-in-cheek. |
| helios Jun 12, 2011 10:24 AM EDT |
And with one ill-conceived rant he's destroyed his reputation AFAIAC, once he clicked the "I agree" button for the Windows EULA, he already did that. I know some people are forced to use Windows at work and for post-grad studies but that aside, anyone who actually reads the MS Windows EULA and clicks the agree button is a slobbering moron...my opinion only of course. The outrageous EULA demands from MS is what got me away from Windows in the first place. I've been using Linux professionally and personally for 6 years and have had to communicate with all levels of government and enterprise. As far as using Open/Libre Office goes, a short email asking them what version of Office they are using will nip any OpenOffice/MS Office incompatibility at the stem. I haven't had any problems at all. Personally, I am glad to see whiners leave...if you aren't smart enough to adapt to your desktop, you need to be out mowing lawns or something. Come to think of it. the guy that does my neighbor's lawn drives a pretty new truck...Maybe I ought to consider it. |
| TxtEdMacs Jun 12, 2011 10:41 AM EDT |
DrG,Quoting: [...] with one ill-conceived rant he's destroyed his reputation, and his credibility. Hopefully, for him, it was worth it. One thing MS does well, that is until they deem you not worthy - then the checks bounce. Quoting:Unless his entire rant was tongue-in-cheek. You mean this guy is Ken Hess writing under another nom de plume? When trapped KH is known to revert[*] to this sort of argument. YBT * edit took out unnecessary "s". |
| DrGeoffrey Jun 12, 2011 10:52 AM EDT |
Quoting:Come to think of it. the guy that does my neighbor's lawn drives a pretty new truck...Maybe I ought to consider it. See, it's not all bad in the Windows world. Those times away from the computer can be nice. |
| helios Jun 12, 2011 11:25 AM EDT |
Those times away from the computer can be nice. From a technician's perspective, so many Windows computers, so little time. I have a kid to put through college. Windows users will allow me to do so. Looks like I'm stuck at the terminal for at least the next 4 years. |
| Browser72 Jun 12, 2011 11:27 AM EDT |
Some are calling his rant an "argument". That's not accurate. He is expressing his frustrations. I also agree what he is mentioning can be frustrating. Now, I'm not where he is. I am willing to meet these frustrations as challenges, because the benefits of Linux far outweigh the negatives. But if Linux supporters truly want to support "openness" then we shouldn't hear his rant as an argument. We need to listen and understand where there are still places that Linux must be improved and why those areas of development are important. Look, Google Chrome OS could very well open the door for a Linux OS that will eventually develop into a need for expanded native apps on the web-only OS. And that would mean Linux becoming very main stream! If this happens it is important to understand which problems need to be tackled to meet the needs of the consumers. "Just works" IS the most important quality if Linux is to be accepted by consumers. |
| helios Jun 12, 2011 11:37 AM EDT |
Browser, I agree with you but what you suggest will never happen. Linux is developed by many people with a "good enough for me" attitude. If their software meets your needs, great, but don't expect anyone to jump up and implement improvements upon request. It does happen but it is seldom. To my mind, the places that Linux needs improvement are the last places that improvement will take place. Until an Enterprise entity or a paid programming staff takes the project on, it will stagnate and remain as is in perpetuity. Then again, stagnation beats "innovation" such as gnome shell and Unity. Maybe sometimes "good enough for me" is good enough for most. It obviously isn't good enough for the author. Sure I get frustrated but I'm not going back to the ball and chain of Windows in a snit. I find ways to make things work in Linux when I have to but it's been years since I've had to put any real effort into it. |
| techiem2 Jun 12, 2011 11:38 AM EDT |
The main problem I have with it isn't that he offers criticisms (as you said, we all need to know what needs to be fixed), but that fact that many of them are things that are completely unchangeable by the Linux community and developers (such as support for cutting edge hardware and such that has to be reverse-engineered due to manufacturers not providing drivers or sufficient documentation on operations/protocols/etc. and problems with proprietary software apps like Skype and Flash) and complaints about other things with no information to back up the complaint such as "poor quality of desktop apps" and "lack of decent office software". And again, he does make a few good points - power management could definitely be improved, but may be a daunting task to get right, and immature desktop environments shouldn't be labeled as releases. |
| albinard Jun 12, 2011 11:53 AM EDT |
@gus3:
Quoting:But the author's concession and return to Windows will be greeted with cheers in Redmond. "See? Open Source really is too hard to use, even for professional types." And Microsoft gets another PR flack. Care to guess which came first: the rant, or the PR ($) flack? |
| 750 Jun 12, 2011 12:01 PM EDT |
Iirc, power management is another area of "works in windows, lets call it a day" from the hardware companies. H*ll, didn't Torvalds decry ACPI as a mess? |
| dinotrac Jun 12, 2011 12:43 PM EDT |
Ummmm ---- Sounds like I'm out of step on this one. (Surprise). I don't get all the teenaged-girls in middle school comments about blame. Since when do users care about that? It really IS frustrating when you can't use a spiffy new piece of hardware. It's also frustrating when you have to jump through hoops to make your hardware work in a semi-acceptable fashion. Pointing fingers doesn't change that fact. Maybe it's just a limitation of free software. Maybe things will get better thanks to ubiquitous Android and Arm-based NetBooks. No matter how you slice it, the Linux Desktop cannot presently claim to be for everyone. |
| Bob_Robertson Jun 12, 2011 2:10 PM EDT |
> the Linux Desktop cannot presently claim to be for everyone. So far as I know, such a system or claim has never existed. Well, maybe in a Steve Jobs wet dream... |
| Fettoosh Jun 12, 2011 2:13 PM EDT |
Quoting:No matter how you slice it, the Linux Desktop cannot presently claim to be for everyone. Neither can Windows or any OS for that matter. At this time All things considered, Linux IS good enough for the majority of average users. There are things in Linux that are lacking and mostly out of the developers hands (drivers, commercial apps). But the community is doing all it can, and continues to remedy the situation. A huge progress has been made already but a lot still need to be done and a rant like this is not going to change anything but increase the resolve. This guy is not saying anything that the community doesn't know already or not doing anything about. So his rant is of help to no one but MS, its lackeys and its shills. His claim to love Linux is hollow and the community doesn't need any weak individual like him. After all, may be he deserves Windows and better of using it. |
| tracyanne Jun 12, 2011 5:27 PM EDT |
Quoting:He'll be back. No matter how bad the situation gets with Linux, it is invariably always a 100 times better than with Windows. He's just forgotten what an inflexible, rotten dungeon Windows really is. That straight jacket will start to pinch real soon. I was able to experience that on the weekend, a client with Windows 7 on a new computer wanted some lessons in how to use their computer, in the process I helped them install Nortons AV. It's been quite a while since I've had to jump through all those hoops and in spite of what I've been told by Windows fan boys, you still have to do the reboot thing when installing and uninstalling software. I am so glad I am a Linux OS user. Just as a point of comparison, he's been using Linux for 8 years, I've been using Linux for 11 this year. It's interesting to note that this person who claims to have a love affair with Linux blamed the "poor" Linux desktop experience on everything that is out side the control of the Linux developers. Proprietary Software. Fine if he has a need that requires Windows or Mac, he should use Windows or Mac, but complaining about Linux Desktops because that need can't be met on Linux seems just a little ingenuous to me. I use Windows, I use Windows because I have to to do certain things I would not call the experience pleasant, and even with inperfect support on Linux from the likes of skype for example, it is till more pleasant to use than the Windows version, which is baroque and has a bunch of stuff that I am not in the least intersted in. In other words the Linux version is a comunications tool, the Windows version is a Social Networking portal. |
| dinotrac Jun 12, 2011 6:32 PM EDT |
>Linux IS good enough for the majority of average users Unless they want to watch Netflix, etc, etc, etc. |
| Ridcully Jun 12, 2011 6:36 PM EDT |
I am very pleased "wiser heads than mine" have had their say. At first I wondered if the article was intended to be comedy; that changed into thinking "is this being written by a dedicated Microsoft supporter and advertiser with the intention to seriously damage Linux" and finally into "sheer disbelief at the amazing claims and statements". Like TA above, I use a Windows computer. It is employed for one specific task at very irregular and infrequent intervals, and at all other times that hard disk drive with the WinXP operating system is removed from the computer and stored as an archived "residue". In all seriousness, each time I fire that OS up, I am nervous: will it work this time, is the BSOD going to appear, will it crash, and so on. I use it because I have to do so, but each time I am under stress that simply does not occur when I use Linux. Oh, and that WinXP system never, never, NEVER gets connected to the internet.......Oddly enough, it's never had a virus - strange that, and so far, I must admit, it has worked reasonably well as a stand alone system. Nevertheless, it's a relief always to turn WinXP off and return to the stability, security and speeds of Linux. Frankly, my opinion is that the writer of the article has done himself more damage to his own reputation than he has done to that of Linux. Assuming he is deadly serious, and he really was previously a dedicated Linux user, then he's already up for a considerable sum of money in OS licences and antiviral packages......I cannot help thinking that sooner or later he'll be back and there will be another published rant - this time at Microsoft. The wheel turns slowly, but it does turn. |
| tracyanne Jun 12, 2011 6:51 PM EDT |
Quoting:>Linux IS good enough for the majority of average users It certainly would have more than met the needs of the client I visited on the weekend. He paid $AU760.00 for a low to mid range laptop ( I could have sold him much better speced hardware for between $AU399.00 and $AU499.00 with Ubuntu that would do all the things he bought his computer for and things he may want to do later. Quoting:Unless they want to watch Netflix, etc, etc, e Can't get that here anyway. So makes no difference. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jun 12, 2011 7:38 PM EDT |
Confession: I dual-boot Debian and Windows 7 on my main laptop for a few of reasons: a) I need to write about Windows on occasion, b) We're now using GoToMyPC, which is worse than LogMeIn and doesn't work in Linux (or Debian anyway), even with Java and c) Netflix. Hopefully Netflix will dump Silverlight and embrace the non-Windows world (right now you can't even watch Netflix on Mac PowerPC). |
| tmx Jun 12, 2011 7:42 PM EDT |
Don't know if I am the only one agreeing with Browser72. Can't really blame the writer for switching back to Windows. There are certain tasks that still required Windows for me. There is a good point about untested Gnome Shell and Unity (even latest KDE is very buggy). Most efforts should be concentrated on hardware compatibility and bugs fix to get the smoothest experience possible. (You might disagree with that, but I experienced my fair share of problems. You can't deny many of you Ubuntu users said you prefer to stick to Ubuntu LTS for stability.) Linux Mint is really smart about this, to deliver familiar layout and good compatibility. I think the question at odd here is what is linux? Different people have different expectation. Most of the lxer users seem to come from a purer background and identifying linux as more of an open community effort. I am fine with that and has come to accept that and think that "linux" will always be a niche. But if that is so, don't expect Linux to be the mainstream and that everyone else can have similar geek skillz. It's much easier to answer the same question for Microsoft and Apple, because they are both monopolist corp with control and aim for their product (shove it down your throat). I personally believe hardware support is a huge reason linux is not as popular for desktop users (don't mention Apple, they have a different strategy all together).The way I see it serves as a better tool for running server that is what outside companies invests in and contribute to. It might began to change, there will be Android and Meego for ARM and x86 architectures now, these OS will run on netbook and tablet devices with all the typical PC hardwares. Will this trickle down (the source codes) and benefit the "real" linux community, maybe. Not all people are geeks who read internet daily, so why should they waste the time and effort to run linux when they have much better and more important things to do like raising a family? You can't blame them until you offer an idiot proof software+hardware linux experience. Not toy cr@p like Android, a full desktop that can play 3D game and printing with OS-built in color profiling, but that depends on hundred thousands of company deciding to support linux, so not going to happen. The easiest way is just ask Microsoft to do it, but they'll only do it if they can retain ultimate control over everything. PS. I just bought a laptop for the first time in my life (Lenovo X220i, selling my desktop and waiting for tablet market to mature). One of the main reason I got it is Intel CPU and GPU for compatibility purposes, even though I would much prefer an aluminum Asus with nVidia Optimus technology. Like the artcile writer I also thought about how that would work, or not at all with a linux distro. But unlike him, recognizing linux limitations, I can find work around instead of whine and goes back to Microsoft completely. There is dualbooting which PITA and virtual machine, but I would like para-virtualization to come along. |
| caitlyn Jun 12, 2011 9:44 PM EDT |
Every time I am forced to use Windows for someone I am reminded just how wonderful the Linux desktop experience is by comparison. I could write an equally long and flamey rant about my Windows experiences. I won't because I don't see value in long and flamey rants very often. The reason hardware works well with Windows is because Windows is preinstalled by the manufacturer. The one time I bought preinstalled with Ubuntu (my HP netbook) everything just worked out of the box. Imagine that! Now, take a boxed Windows 7 and try installing it on random from the store piece of hardware X with a wiped hard drive and see how many problems you run into. Linux (a modern full-featured distro anyway) supports much more hardware out of the box. It isn't that the Linux desktop isn't for everyone. It's installing an OS and getting it right that is beyond most people. So long as I don't go distro hopping and stick with reliable distros that aren't on the extreme bleeding edge my stuff just works and works. If I have some very new hardware then I do go to that edge, but usually by dropping what I need (a newer driver or kernel) into a known, reliable distro. Oh, and I'll say it again and probably get flamed for it: a lot of those complaints, especially in the comments, are about Ubuntu bugs. What else is new? The supposed Linux standard bearer is always a buggy mess. Andrew Wyatt's "garbage salad" comment is more apt with every release. Fedora is a test bed and is scarcely better. Sadly, the really dependable choices get relatively little press. (Edited for typo) |
| Bob_Robertson Jun 12, 2011 9:47 PM EDT |
Hardware support. That's funny, because "out of the box" the Linux environment supports far more hardware than anything else. Can't run Windows native on an IBM390, or a wireless router, for example. But new hardware vendors don't write drivers or specs for Linux, so there is a quantity of "what can be bought at the store" that is not supported. YET. I, too, have no difficulty with the closed Nvidia driver. I would _prefer_ an open driver, but if the hardware maker is going to provide a driver, I can choose to use it. After all, I bought a closed, proprietary video _card_, didn't I? One of the last uses of VirtualBox for me has passed, since Wizard101 now runs quite well under WINE. Much better than in VB. Now it's pretty much just NetFlix, if I ever restart my subscription that is, and TVU player, things like that. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jun 12, 2011 11:37 PM EDT |
Microsoft isn't bringing out Windows 8 on IBM S/390? Are you sure? |
| Fettoosh Jun 13, 2011 12:00 AM EDT |
Quoting:Unless they want to watch Netflix, etc, etc, etc I have no use for it and I am sure many other don't care for it either. For the etc. etc. etc. I would use VBox. |
| BernardSwiss Jun 13, 2011 12:06 AM EDT |
I didn't find this rant to be very consistant. The author says very clearly that he's an experienced "pro" Linux user and teacher, who chooses to use what he himself calls using cutting edge hardware, which he selects in full knowledge,to use with what he himself calls cutting edge distros, and when it proves difficult, he lays the blame on Linux. He supposedly knows better. Even when the proprietary, closed source graphics driver, supplied by the manufacturer specifically for that advanced graphics hardware on Linux, fails to work as it should, he blames not the card-manufacturer, but Linux. That he finds this frustrating, I can understand. That he vents at the Linux desktop, rather than the badly distorted "market" smacks of misdirected resentment, rather like blaming the "bad" child rather than the abusive parent. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Anyways, I doubt he'll find Windows an improvement. My sister continues to have messages on her new Windows 7 computer, because when updates don't download properly, Windows won't toss out the corrupted update before trying again, so it tries to install the same bad copy over and over -- but there appears to be no simple way to identify and remove the bad patch manually, either (if there is, please point me at it). And my Dad just re-installed his Win XP system -- the Windows back-up didn't work. And he can't get suspend/hibernate to work. And this is using the (re)install media that came with the computer. With technical help/support from the OEM. But that doesn't matter, because Windows -- in contrast to Linux -- is a "polished" and "easy". It's a much more sophisticated product than Linux, made by a corporation with the smarts and know-how to make computers usable by ordinary people, making Windows the "practical" operating system for practical, "pragmatic" users. After all -- you get what you pay for! |
| BernardSwiss Jun 13, 2011 12:36 AM EDT |
Quoting:Does it seems normal to you to avoid commodity hardware just on the ground that it’s “too new” to be properly employed by your OS of choice? Actually, it was only a few years ago that even relatively ignorant shoppers were getting the message that "Win-hardware" (eg. "win-modems", "win-printers") were best avoided -- even if you were running Windows. It's actually pretty impressive, that Linux developers generally manage to get such Windows-dependent goods to work -- reasonably or excellently well -- with more win-hardware (eg. "win-wifi") than even Windows does. To b**** that the latest-and-greatest shiny takes a little longer to get support (because either the manufacturers drag their feet or Linux-devs end up having to do it themselves) is to have lost sight of fundamentals. Complain about it if you wish. Use Windows instead, if you wish. Or if circumstances and pragmatism require. Heck; even if you just find it expedient (but please, just don't pretend it's "pragmatism"). But it's not odd. It's the predictable consequence of a frequently abusive monopoly. It may be commodity hardware -- but it's commodity Windows hardware -- so some of it doesn't work with Linux, not yet. |
| dinotrac Jun 13, 2011 6:09 AM EDT |
Gosh, guys -- Do you ever listen to yourselves? Seems like the basic argument is, "It works for me so it should be good enough for everybody else." That worked pretty well for the Model T. Until people had choices. |
| tracyanne Jun 13, 2011 6:48 AM EDT |
Quoting:"It works for me so it should be good enough for everybody else." I don't believe I said anything of the sort. |
| Bob_Robertson Jun 13, 2011 8:19 AM EDT |
> Seems like the basic argument is,... I would prefer to be able to tell someone else what will work for them, but so far the power to enter into another's mind and perceive their wants and point of view directly eludes me. As such, there is only one point of view any individual can actually know. The rest is guesswork. |
| gus3 Jun 13, 2011 8:31 AM EDT |
@dino, I specifically am NOT saying that. I got a lot of that flack for my "Linux Out, FreeBSD In" article, even though I clearly blamed the marginal hardware (the FreeBSD source says it "brings a new definition to the term 'low-end'"). Re-read BernardSwiss's first comment on this thread. It's the rant I would have posted, but for this tiny Android keyboard. |
| Fettoosh Jun 13, 2011 8:41 AM EDT |
Quoting:"It works for me so it should be good enough for everybody else." Neither did anyone else here in this thread. I believe you are incorrectly paraphrasing. Some people describe problems that others don't experience and they voice their doubts about it, that is not the same as you are suggesting. It is a way to let them know that something else is wrong. |
| jdixon Jun 13, 2011 8:59 AM EDT |
> b) We're now using GoToMyPC, which is worse than LogMeIn and doesn't work in Linux (or Debian anyway), even with Java Steven, take a look at teamviewer: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx It's a Windows app, but it works under wine, and they even packaged it so you could install it directly. |
| TxtEdMacs Jun 13, 2011 10:28 AM EDT |
dino, Your back! Quoting:Do you ever listen to yourselves? YBT P.S. You should know how uneasy it has been of late, finding myself describing you as a rational voice. Now we are back in our comfort zones. How are you? |
| dinotrac Jun 13, 2011 11:02 AM EDT |
Guys - While still a steadfast Linux desktop user, even I have installed Windows on my workstation -- albeit as a guest under VirtualBox. The problem for Linux is the same as it always has been: The mythical "average" user. Trouble is, lots and lots of those average users ALMOST fit the profile, but have one app they really want, but can't get under linux, or one piece of hardware they want to use but can't get to work under Linux without jumping through hoops.l A couple of years, I almost got a friend of mine to use Linux netbooks in his business. Would have made the sale, except that he couldn't tether his mobile to them. I searched the web and found a "How-to" for getting it to work, but the fact that Windows did it out of the box ("out of the box" meaning he could just download the driver and everything worked) made him order subsequent machines with Windows instead of Linux. Users just plain don't care WHY things don't work on Linux. They care THAT they don't work. Lots of people can happily use Linux desktops. I'm one of them. Lots of people can't. |
| Fettoosh Jun 13, 2011 12:21 PM EDT |
Quoting:Users just plain don't care WHY things don't work on Linux. They care THAT they don't work. Lots of people can happily use Linux desktops. I'm one of them.. @Dino, You make a very good point and I agree with you. I am sure many other agree with you too. But, the issue is not that clear cut. Quoting:Lots of people can't Why can't they? Is it all because Linux is so hard to install? It is not anymore. Have they tried it? Most haven't Are standard apps used by 99% of people are available for Linux? they are and more Can they run Windows apps? No, but they can use VBox. Not a big deal if it comes installed Is Linux support available? Yes, just like Windows support is via friend(not popular), forum, Google search, etc. Is there vendor support for Linux? Yes and cost $$$ just like Windows Do users have to learn supporting their Linux machines? Yes, just like they had to learn supporting their Windows machines. Etc... There are issue still to be resolved with Linux, but they are not that big of a deal. Many of these issue can be resolved by offering support. Ubuntu is the best capable of doing that, but their last DE development is messing things up at the moment. What must happen is to offer free support to make user comfortable trying out and experiencing Linux. And that is why I say the community needs a "Adopt a Linux PC/User" program with a helpdesk database system that would be used by volunteers to support and help any users with any Linux issue. Windows didn't have that because it didn't need it to proliferate, NOT because it was easy and robust, but because it was they only thing available and users had no other choice but to learn Windows by trial and error. Linux needs such a volunteer program in order to sway user from what they are used to: "Windows" |
| skelband Jun 13, 2011 1:11 PM EDT |
Got a WiFi card the other day and it said "LINUX supported" in big letters on the front of the box. Didn't mention Mac either. You could have knocked me over with a feather.... ============== Edit: ASUS PCE-N13 802.11b/g/n Says "LINUX Support" on the box. On back it says: "Support OS Windows 7/Vista/XP/2000; Linux Kernel 2.6.29" :D |
| dinotrac Jun 13, 2011 3:02 PM EDT |
@skelband... Woohoo! I recently bought a piece of hardware that said the same thing, but I've completely forgotten what it was. Nice, no matter how you slice it. |
| djohnston Jun 13, 2011 3:40 PM EDT |
Quoting:You mean this guy is Ken Hess writing under another nom de plume? When trapped KH is known to revert[*] to this sort of argument. Nah. He didn't make any "cloud" references. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jun 13, 2011 4:51 PM EDT |
I'm the first to complain about things not working in Linux/BSD, but my current "main" laptop, a cheap ($329) Lenovo G555 (not at all a Thinkpad) is a case in point: Between Atheros wired and wireless networking, ATI video and Conexant sound, I had a few bumps along the way: -- Linux liked the WiFi but not the wired Ethernet interface, which was too "new" for the kernel -- No sound muting with then-current ALSA drivers -- Video died during early kernel mode setting era I started with Fedora 13 in March and ended up with Debian Squeeze by the end of the year. All networking and video problems were solved at that point, and I had fully functional suspend/resume. Once I went beyond Debian's 2.6.32 kernel to a kernel with the 1.0.23 ALSA drivers (most kernels were using 1.0.21 even though ALSA itself was at 1.0.23), the sound issues resolved itself. Yeah, it took many months for Linux to "like" the hardware, but now that it does, I'm in a very good place, so to speak. |
| tmx Jun 13, 2011 8:09 PM EDT |
^ I made my point then. In the end you have to admit you need a large entity to kick start it, such as Intel with Meego devices, but its gonna need a huge ecosystem built around it to begin competing with the big boys like iOS and Android, but I don't think it could (even though I wish it could, until the sales becomes very good and other manufacturer takes notice and wants a piece). In a good and bad way (but more good than bad), I have to customize my own version of Ubuntu to make sure someof those bugs you mentioned are sorted. And I have to take precaution to buy Intel based laptop to make sure sound, video and internet works out of the box. Microsoft dictate a standard that everyone has to follow (minimal hardware and specs for their Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 for example). Linux don't have that, it is a struggle to get everyone to agree on an open standard. But I begin to feel this wall is going to be broken with consumer Linux running on both x86 and ARM and vice verse for Windows. It's going to be interesting seeing how it play out and if Microsoft can dominate the ARM sector as well or it will be fair share for all. |
| 750 Jun 14, 2011 1:23 AM EDT |
@skelband found a no-name usb SD reader a while back that had a cute penguin in the corner of the blister pack insert. |
| mortenalver Jun 14, 2011 4:51 AM EDT |
On the other hand, the Netgear Stora (NAS drive) says on the box it supports Linux, but it requires you to run a silly program on Windows or Mac to initialize it (as far as I could find out). |
| Koriel Jun 15, 2011 3:22 AM EDT |
Yeh, The usual blaming Linux for closed source driver woes. When he should be blaming the manufacturers. He did get one thing right though AMD/ATI drivers are just plain awfull I have a 2 year old card that still isn't properly supported by the closed Catalyst driver but I don't blame Linux nope that lies at AMD's door for their exceedingly poor Linux support. |
| devnet Jun 15, 2011 2:09 PM EDT |
Quoting:Steven, take a look at teamviewer: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx Teamviewer has full support for Linux. I used an RPM for my Unity Linux box the other day and they have Debs as well for Debian/Ubuntu/Mint. |
| tracyanne Jun 15, 2011 5:56 PM EDT |
Yes TeamViewer is fully cross platform I have the Ubuntu version installed on my machine. |
| Steven_Rosenber Jun 15, 2011 7:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:Steven, take a look at teamviewer: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx I will look into that. If I understood better how to configure it (machine on the local network, doesn't have its own Internet IP), I'd try TightVNC or some other remote-desktop app. |
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