Seems at odds with his dislike of Debian

Story: #!CrunchBang 11 "Waldorf": The Breakfast of ChampionsTotal Replies: 76
Author Content
CFWhitman

May 28, 2013
4:11 PM EDT
It seems a little odd that Mr. Schmitz would like Crunchbang so much and dislike Debian so much. I could understand if his problems with Debian were its lack of minimalism (or to some degree polish on the desktop) or the lack of inclusion of non-free software (and/or methods to install non-free software). However, he seemed to indicate that his problem with Debian is that it is stuck way behind the times. That seems odd because Crunchbang is basically Debian stable with a few selected backports (which are also available for Debian) and a nice polished, minimalist Openbox configuration.

I personally love Crunchbang, especially for systems that are of limited power. I, however, also find Debian great as a server and fine as a desktop with a few strategic adjustments and backports (again, especially on hardware of limited power). I have Crunchbang on my netbook as well as a couple of other notebooks (I get a lot of cast off hardware and revitalize it with Linux before giving it away or putting it to use myself).
Dietrich

May 28, 2013
6:59 PM EDT
I didn't supply reasons why I chose not to stay with it.

The developer would not backport to kernel 3.2 seccomp-bpf. The kernel is too old.

I've written a story about the Debian 'speedbump' which explains my point of view.

Still, it remains a good Distro for the reasons I state. It's not for me.

And, in the long-run, everyone would do well to redirect their efforts and support to a Distro that will still be found standing in five years.

Ubuntu will not be around. Fedora will.

-- Dietrich

lietkynes

May 28, 2013
11:04 PM EDT
I disagree with the comment above, therefore it should be censored.

Empty review...There is as little to criticize as there is to praise about it. The only people who will find anything marginally useful here are people who already like this distro. "I like it too!"

The more I read the less there is.
Steven_Rosenber

May 29, 2013
12:34 AM EDT
Debian will also be here in 5 years. No doubt.
kikinovak

May 29, 2013
1:27 AM EDT
@Dietrich: In your criticism of Debian, you basically compare a Mini Cooper and an M1 tank, and your main complaint is that the car radio on the M1 tank is outdated and that the tank doesn't ship in pink.

Fedora is Red Hat's technology testbed. It's meant to be perpetual beta. Which also means it's more or less unusable in production, since support periods are way too short.

Debian, on the other hand, is all about stability. Which often means being several version numbers behind.

If you were a professional (meaning taking care of Linux machine in production environments for clients) you would end up learning these facts.



notbob

May 29, 2013
9:31 AM EDT
> It seems a little odd that Mr. Schmitz would....

You ppl are still reading this guy? C'mon.
CFWhitman

May 29, 2013
10:16 AM EDT
Well, the 'speed bump' article is the article I had read and where I got my impression that Mr. Schmitz didn't like Debian because stable consisted of old software. That's fine. I don't have any problem with that.

What I really didn't like about the article, however, was that it seemed to say that Debian has not been valuable or important in the history of Linux because of how far behind current software 'stable' has tended to be. Saying that you don't like Debian for your purposes is perfectly reasonable (even if you say it like, 'Debian sucks', which may not be considered exactly professional). Saying that Debian has no value and/or is unimportant seems rather extreme and dangerously close to crossing from being a matter of opinion to being demonstrably incorrect. You don't have to love Debian to recognize its importance
jdixon

May 29, 2013
11:04 AM EDT
> You don't have to love Debian to recognize its importance

Debian is in a virtual tie with Slackware for being the oldest existing distribution. While it would be difficult to prove, I believe it has had more distributions based on it over the years than any other. And I believe it has the largest repository of available software.

It would honestly be difficult to overstate it's importance within the Linux ecosystem.

notbob

May 29, 2013
12:56 PM EDT
> Debian is in a virtual tie with Slackware for being the oldest existing distribution. While it would be difficult to prove, I believe it has had more distributions based on it over the years than any other.

I think one would have to be totally delusional to dispute such a statement. While Slack has quite a few variants and I'm a lifelong Slacker, nothing even comes close to Debian spin-offs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions

I keep telling myself I'm gonna try Debian, one of these days, yet I never quite make it. I've had bad experiences with Debian ever since I started using Linux. Of the first 6 distros I purchased at a LinuxWorld convention, the Debian CD would not install. The next time it was some kinda torrent dwnld nonsense I never could quite figure out. I've never been able get Debian flying, despite have zero probs installing/running Slackware. Someone wanna give me a Debian stable iso image mirror gar-own-teed to dwnld/install, I might try again. Otherwise, why bother.

jdixon

May 29, 2013
12:59 PM EDT
> I've never been able get Debian flying, despite have zero probs installing/running Slackware.

I've gotten it working exactly once, for someone else. Like you, I've never had any luck with it on my machines, but Slackware has always worked fine. I think there may be some kind of karma involved. :(
Fettoosh

May 29, 2013
1:28 PM EDT
I really don't know why and puzzled by the attention "Linux Advocates" is getting hear on LXer. It is obvious that Mr. Schmitz criticises various aspects of Linux and favour one Distro./application over another to create more hits to his solely owned site. He hides behind an appealing name but actually trying to hurt Linux using divide and conquer approach.

Reading his lengthy diatribes is a waste of time and I don't give him any consideration , let's just ignore him.

vainrveenr

May 29, 2013
1:39 PM EDT
Quoting:Someone wanna give me a Debian stable iso image mirror gar-own-teed to dwnld/install, I might try again. Otherwise, why bother.
As mentioned at the end of the LXer thread Rush to review, there do happen to be Debian stable LiveCD iso images available via the [Debian] Live Systems Project, general link found at http://live.debian.net/

Debian stable LiveCD iso-hybrid images are available for a few common architectures via the Live Systems Project links http://live.debian.net/cdimage/release/stable/ and http://live.debian.net/cdimage/release/stable+nonfree/.



To be fair, persons have frequently labelled Debian as "hard" and there certainly is some controversy over Debian's inclusion of non-free software in its non-free images, e.g., the iso-hybrid images within the above stable+nonfree link. In one of the above commentator's blogs from nearly three months ago, If you run Linux, you can run Debian. At least give it a try, a commentator on that blog wrote the following:
Quoting:Debian is only “hard” if you are installing proprietary drivers for graphics or wifi, or other “non-free” firmware, codecs and similar software. Since Debian was my very first Linux distro (back when they still had only the text installer) that doesn’t scare me (and open graphics drivers suit my needs, anyways).

But I was expecting difficulties (a.k.a. a learning curve), and so was willing to read the installation guide, first. Most newbies today are scared off by that; but the real cause of the “tough” reputation is the people who already “know computers” and can’t imagine that they just might meed to learn a few new things, to install and set-up a “modern” operating system other than Windows.


Perhaps counterintuitively, could this second paragraph above ring most true for those who "already know computers", e.g., the above LXer commentator who knows Slackware and yet "never had any luck with [Debian] on [that person's] machines" ??





jdixon

May 29, 2013
3:05 PM EDT
> Perhaps counterintuitively, this second paragraph of the above could ring most true for those who Perhaps counterintuitively, this second paragraph of the above could ring most true for those who

Well, that could be true. But it doesn't explain how I was able to get it working properly once when I was installing it for someone else. We're talking old machines here without any esoteric hardware.

But it doesn't matter. I'll tackle Debian again when I have some free time. I need to replace Ubuntu 10.04 on my netbook, and it seems the likely candidate.
notbob

May 29, 2013
3:24 PM EDT
Yeah. My dismay always came from whatever weird glitch debian had introduced at any given moment. Why I gotta get pieces of debian from different servers? Why, outta 6 CDs, was debian the only distro to fail? I mean, c'mon! I've installed/run everything from UnixWare to OBSD to screwbuntu to whatever. I was introduced to computers when the CLI is all there was. I learned to compile from source ages ago, yet debian remains elusive. If I don't understand the instructions, it's cuz the instructions suck.

Oh well. One day, when I care. ;)

kikinovak

May 29, 2013
3:50 PM EDT
For Debian, just use the CD images with firmware.

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-inc...

As for Debian being "difficult", I've been using it on a regular basis since Potato, and I find it "easy" in the sense that everything JustWorks(tm). It's part of my personal Top Three along with Slackware and CentOS.
Dietrich

May 29, 2013
9:24 PM EDT
@CFWhitman

I think you are one of the more reasonable individuals here.

If you sort through my 'speedbump' story, you'll find that:

1) Their software release management policy too long 2) I believe they operate like a fiefdom and impede the advancement of technology. 3) Stability can be maintained in any Distro, even Fedora and thus why I state item 1

My conclusion from extensive research of other Distros is that Debian is a 'speedbump', nothing else.

They do not afford anything which is technically superior to Fedora or RHEL.

Thanks for your intellectual honesty. There's little of that in the blogosphere.

--Dietrich
jdixon

May 29, 2013
10:11 PM EDT
> My conclusion from extensive research of other Distros is that Debian is a 'speedbump', nothing else.

Everyone is entitled to draw their own conclusions. I'm not sure the folks at Linux Mint would agree with you though.
Steven_Rosenber

May 29, 2013
10:32 PM EDT
Frosted Flakes. Sugar Pops.
caitlyn

May 29, 2013
10:41 PM EDT
Debian a speedbump? Take away Debian and half the distros on Distrowatch cease to exist. FWIW, I've never been a Debian fan but it's been a very long time since I gave it a fair test. I do have 7.0 downloaded and I intend to give it a good look.
kikinovak

May 30, 2013
7:33 AM EDT
@Dietrich: if by "technically superior" you understand "ready to include a collection of half-baked technology previews", then I guess you're right.

In the meantime, I go for "reliable" anytime. Which means Debian, RHEL/clones and Slackware.
Dietrich

May 30, 2013
8:29 AM EDT
@caitlyn

Oh, you mean all of those 'cookie cutter' 'me too' Distros? Right. ;)
Fettoosh

May 30, 2013
10:56 AM EDT
Quoting:Oh, you mean all of those 'cookie cutter' 'me too' Distros? Right. ;)


... Some one doesn't seem to understand or comprehend the concept of evolution in technology.

Dietrich

May 30, 2013
11:48 AM EDT
@Fettoosh

A dozen or more Distros cut from the same cloth all doing the same thing substantially is NOT my idea of innovation.

That was the thrust of my story:

http://www.linuxadvocates.com/2013/04/cookie-cutter-distros-...

It's experimentation and hobbyism.

The real innovation is happening in only a handful of Distros.

And if more people would put their backing behind 'one' Distro and pulled their oars it would have a huge effect.

This is why I endorse Fedora/RHEL. They are making a difference.
jdixon

May 30, 2013
12:26 PM EDT
> A dozen or more Distros cut from the same cloth all doing the same thing substantially is NOT my idea of innovation.

If that's your assessment of the range of Debian derived distributions, you've just destroyed any credibility you might have had left. But if that's your choice and your opinion, you're entitled to it.
jazz

May 30, 2013
12:59 PM EDT
I enjoy using "cookie cutter" distros, and I enjoy reading about them. What I don't like is cookie cutter articles like this one. No innovation there, nothing technical, just private opinions. Not even a screenshot?
Fettoosh

May 30, 2013
1:42 PM EDT
Someone "Can't see the forest for the trees". The whole FOSS ecosystem was built and constantly progressing from many variations of projects that constantly evolve by feeding from and to each other. The FOSS ecosystem is dispersed all over the world where many multiple ideas are sprouting and experiments are constantly happening. Natural selection is what ultimately decides what to survive. that is why FOSS is progressing so fast and so quick. If a single path was to be followed, who is it to say it is the best? You!? No, thank you very much.

Have you ever worked in a scientific research and development environment? I guess not otherwise you would have understood the concept. It is really very simple, you set multiple groups on multiple paths to explore and investigate new technology and eventually reach to the best solution. All others would be lessons learned. May be it doesn't make sense to you, but all you have to do is look around you and see who is adopting FOSS. May be it is not as fast as it should be, but it is not because FOSS is not as good as other software.

If I don't respond after this posting, it is only because I don't wish to waste my time.

lietkynes

May 30, 2013
2:21 PM EDT
"1) Their software release management policy too long 2) I believe they operate like a fiefdom and impede the advancement of technology. 3) Stability can be maintained in any Distro, even Fedora and thus why I state item 1"

I wonder how you even have the face to even utter the words "intellectual honesty". You claim you did "extensive research" and yet fail to even understand the meaning of "stability" Debian strives for. Yes, you are correct, Fedora _CAN_ be stable. Try this: instead of "doing research" actually _try_ the distributions you spout crap about and compare their performance to _their_ mission statement. Stop missing the point.

Your statements remind me of people saying that linux desktop will fail. In the same way the linux desktop can never fail, by its very nature, Debian will always make sense and be relevant. Lack of understanding and education make for very silly internet posts.

"I think you [CFWhitman] are one of the more reasonable individuals here." - yes, keep convincing yourself that people who ignore your blatant transgressions to the community and disingenuous writing are the only voices of reason. Delusional.

Please do not confuse this situation, the discussion above presents no proof to your writing having any substance.

The only conclusion we can draw from your responses so far are that you vaguely understand Fedora and that you don't understand Debian at all. Another interesting finding is that you barely understand the linux ecosystem. You should start writing about Windows, I think you will feel more at home.
kikinovak

May 30, 2013
4:54 PM EDT
Mister Schmitz,

I suggest you go out and install a few pure Fedora networks in schools, public libraries, SOHO companies, non-profit organizations, etc. By "networks" I mean desktop clients connected to a local LAN server using centralized authentication, eventually a couple of dedicated public servers for mail and various web services. Use only Fedora for the job on both servers and desktops, and install a couple hundred machines at least.

Wait 18 months until the support period has expired, and then tell us about your experience in your blog.

Until then, talk is cheap.
Dietrich

May 30, 2013
5:17 PM EDT
Per usual,

I see much 'poo poo'ing from the peanut gallery.

Want to cheer? Don't let me stop you. Get some pom poms and be a cheerleader.

Come to my site and offer up a sensible critique.

Making small clustered remarks roaring, barking like sleeping dogs has no effect. Making a stand in a public website does and taking a position against things which harm Linux and the advancement of technology derived from it is worth writing stories about.

Cookie cutter Distros do nothing to advance the cause of Linux. Hobbyists and experimenters will remain a tiny minority on the fringes of society as one major commercial Linux Distro continues to innovate and supersede Windows.

That Distro is Red Hat.

I stake my reputation on it.

Dietrich Schmitz Your Linux Advocate
lietkynes

May 30, 2013
6:41 PM EDT
Don't amuse people with ideas that you even read sensible critique.

I disagree with you on not having an effect. You constantly demonstrate your lack of integrity and your pitiable attitude. You are a detriment to the community. Giving others the chance to see your personality is definitely worth the trouble.

Your site's impact factor is non-existent. Mostly because even your good points are misinformed. People keep providing you with valid criticism in a myriad of different forms, and you keep ignoring them. If you changed, your perseverance could be an asset to linux. Alas, you are nothing more than a nuisance.

"The cause of linux"...again you show how boring and uneducated your arguments are. Please define to me this blanket "cause" of which you speak. You are a bigger detriment to linux than cookie cutter distros will ever be, and you are mostly irrelevant.

Your reputation? I have yet to see someone who has not lost respect to your despicable behavior. Raise the stakes...even a bit.

Let me connect the overwhelming number of dots that you are dropping all over the place. You have no idea what you are talking about.
kikinovak

May 30, 2013
6:55 PM EDT
Debating Linux matters with Dietrich Schmitz is like playing chess with a pigeon. He knocks the pieces over, cr@ps on the board and then flies back to his LinuxAdvocates flock to claim victory. Probably best to just ignore him.

jdixon

May 30, 2013
8:13 PM EDT
> Come to my site and offer up a sensible critique.

Some how I doubt what I consider sensible and what you consider sensible coincide. So no thanks.

> That Distro is Red Hat.

RHEL? Yes. But only for businesses. They have no interest in marketing to individuals. Fedora? Not so much so. The winner in the consumer Linux field is probably going to be some combination of Android/Chrome.
Dietrich

May 30, 2013
8:18 PM EDT
_@lietkynes

Will you be my pen pal? ;)

You are too funny.
lietkynes

May 30, 2013
11:31 PM EDT
I am glad that you enjoy it :)

At some point, I was going to feel bad for you and your sh#tty personality. I feel better now.

Hahaha, loved the analogy kikinovak. I had a little hope at some point, honestly. I think he waved goodbye to his last drop of integrity as it left with his last synapsing neuron.
TxtEdMacs

May 30, 2013
11:52 PM EDT
All of you guys just miss the obvious. Moreover, your temper tantrums sullying the good name and exulted status of such a shinning light might extinguish the only route to Linux's triumph. How can you be so blind?

You need only to take his name to Google's search to see to some he is a veritable genius. A fighter for Linux and knowledgeable above all others. How, how can you argue with those objective descriptions*?

YBT**

* I would advise doing some checking of some Salon articles by Andrew Leonard on a subclass of Wikipedia editors and the impact they have had upon the veracity of that forum when viewing the citations I alluded to. It will provide perspective my words would pale against.

** Since I have not written too many posts recently, as a reminder, YBT == "Your Buddy Txt."
Dietrich

May 31, 2013
12:19 AM EDT
It's just more personalizations from a small subset who aren't interested in saying anything substantive.

Fairly typical 'clever' talk--not smart, just 'clever'.

It's all just hot air. Too funny. Push button, take pellet.
skelband

May 31, 2013
6:26 PM EDT
> Cookie cutter Distros do nothing to advance the cause of Linux.

What is this cause that you speak of?

If you mean the overturning of Windows for yet another mono-culture of Red Hat, then what you are looking for is stagnation of another kind.

I think that you will find that most people are looking for an escape from both a mono-culture and convicted monopolist. Red Hat might be useful for some. If we don't like it, are you saying that we should lump it, all in the name of a united front? That sounds like the kind of message coming out of Redmond these days viz-a-viz Windows 8.

Advocating that we all drop everything and install Red Hat is a road to nowhere fast.
kikinovak

Jun 01, 2013
2:35 AM EDT
Red Hat is not interested in the desktop market, and they even explicitly stated this. RHEL is great on servers and on workstations for running certified apps. Of course, you *can* run a RHEL-or-clone-based-desktop (heck, I even wrote an entire book about the matter), but you'll always be jumping through burning loops at some point.

The french Gendarmerie (police force) have been migrating their 85.000 desktops from Windows to Linux since last year. They don't use RHEL, but Ubuntu LTS for the job. As for the city of Munich, all desktop clients are running "LiMux", which is a Debian derivative.

So Mister Schmitz' enlightening assertions ("Red Hat is better than Ubuntu and Debian is a roadblock yadda yadda") sound a bit like "A hammer is better than a monkey wrench and pliers are useless anyway". They're all just tools, each with a different purpose.

And our favourite Linux advocate is manifestly unable to digest this simple piece of information. Until then, I guess he will continue doing his daily kicking and shrieking and publishing.
jazz

Jun 01, 2013
6:40 AM EDT
> It seems a little odd that Mr. Schmitz would like Crunchbang so much and dislike Debian so much.

This is because he didn't bother to install Crunchbang and try it out. The review is a fake, like the advocate behind it.

Dietrich, just go to http://distrowatch.com to see how a distro review is done. Also, include some screenshots. Without them, no one will believe you.
Dietrich

Jun 01, 2013
9:11 AM EDT
@kiki

I think the analogy speedbump is a good one.

Debian slows down development, intentionally. That is their policy.

Does that help you?
jdixon

Jun 01, 2013
10:33 AM EDT
> And our favourite Linux advocate is manifestly unable to digest this simple piece of information.

Our favorite Linux advocate is Ken Starks. :) And he's long ago digested that information.
Dietrich

Jun 01, 2013
12:16 PM EDT
@jazz

More antagonism, hostility? Just too funny.

I tried CrunchBang alright. Even had a few discussions with the author last summer when I gave it a trial. That's in the story btw, if you even bothered to read it.

So much hostility! Very bad for your immune system little grasshopper.
kikinovak

Jun 01, 2013
1:27 PM EDT
@Dietrich: as a hobbyist, you're probably free to live dangerously and use whatever "innovating" distribution you want on your PC. You'll probably be in for the odd nasty surprise, too. As a professional, I can't afford basing my company's solution on a distribution like Fedora that changes init systems like underwear (System V -> Upstart -> Systemd over a two-year span).

So speedbumps are essentially a good thing for us professionals. You young punks don't understand the value of perennity :o)
jazz

Jun 01, 2013
1:30 PM EDT
> I tried CrunchBang alright. Even had a few discussions with the author last summer when I gave it a trial. That's in the story btw, if you even bothered to read it.

So, you installed crunchbang, and one year later wrote the review... that would explain the missing screeenshots... As I've said already, you are so pathetic is not even funny.
caitlyn

Jun 01, 2013
2:10 PM EDT
You love Red Hat which deliberately takes a slow pace yet you argue against Debian, calling it a speedbump, even though it essentially takes a slow pace for precisely the same reasons: stability and reliability. Dietrich, your arguments are inconsistent at best.

Regarding "cookie cutter" distros, it is grossly unfair and definitely inaccurate to lump all Debian derivatives in the same boat that way. Ubuntu certainly adds a lot of unique code, both apps and tools, that Debian does not offer. That isn't "cookie cutter". Neither is Knoppix. Neither is Damn Small Linux which did something unique with a Debian code base. Neither is Linux Mint, which essentially took Ubuntu and made it more user friendly, squashed upstream bugs, and added it's own extensions to GNOME (that would be Cinnamon). Neither are probably 50 others I could name.

I agree with the comments above: you are arguing either for the sake of argument or because you can't tolerate a dissenting opinion. These arguments do destroy your credibility as jdixon points out.
Dietrich

Jun 01, 2013
2:18 PM EDT
@kiki

I'd never recommend Fedora for a business setting. That would be where Red Hat comes in.

RHEL 7 is based on systemd. Most installed sites won't touch it with a barge pole for about 12 months of bug shake-out. That's SOP.

So, you acknowledge the speedbump. It's a software release management 'policy' issue--not a stability issue. Stability can be accomplished in a variety of ways.

As for your "young punks" remark, I've forgotten more than you know.
Dietrich

Jun 01, 2013
2:21 PM EDT
@jazz

In your zeal to find ways to discredit me, you have revealed that you didn't even read the CrunchBang story. Yet more of your ignorant antagonistic behavior.

Nimrod.

Go read it.

I write in the story that I evaluated the Distro 'LAST SUMMER'. Sheesh.

Really, you have more nerve than brains.
caitlyn

Jun 01, 2013
2:27 PM EDT
Gee, name calling is such an effective argument technique.

Someone may set a record for getting LXer threads closed.
Steven_Rosenber

Jun 01, 2013
4:15 PM EDT
I'm finding Fedora to be of pretty high quality, and if you make sure the hardware is compatible and run your own local repo (and keep the constant flow of new kernels out of there), I don't see why an enterprise couldn't push Fedora on the desktop.

I'd say the same about Debian and Ubuntu. As long as you have some control over what users can install/upgrade, I don't see any problem.

Server, as always, is a different story.
Dietrich

Jun 01, 2013
5:08 PM EDT
@caitlyn

This site is no different than ZDNet in my experience (6 years).

When people make their minds up, they shoot and ask questions later.

There's no thought process going on here.

If someone tells me to piss off, I'll tell them back. If they're nice, I am nice.

I'm an old hand at this. Doesn't bother me one bit.

You can be sure this kind of $hit wouldn't happen on my watch.
Dietrich

Jun 01, 2013
5:09 PM EDT
@steven_rosenberg

May I say here, "hats off" to you for running a real professional website. I enjoy reading all of your stories.

We are singing from the same hymnal on Fedora. :)

Kindest Regards, Dietrich
kikinovak

Jun 01, 2013
6:23 PM EDT
@Dietrich. Here's a link to your personal nirvana.

http://www.fedoraforum.org/

Enjoy.
Dietrich

Jun 01, 2013
6:53 PM EDT
@kikinovak

Awe. What's the matter? Still feeling antagonistic? Tisk. Tisk. C'est dommage.
jazz

Jun 01, 2013
7:33 PM EDT
> In your zeal to find ways to discredit me, you have revealed that you didn't even read the CrunchBang story. Yet more of your ignorant antagonistic behavior.

Half way trough your article it became clear to me that you didn't ever run CrunchBang, and you are just compiling information from some other sources. I don't buy your explanation that in fact you installed CrunchBang one year ago. This is bulls*it!

Nobody will give me back the time I've wasted on your website. Probably all your articles are like that. Speaking of which... The Linux Containers (LXC) article from a few weeks back is exactly the same as the CrunchBang one. The software you describe runs currently on Ubuntu and it will not run on Fedora because (1) it needs some modules you don't find in your standard Fedora kernel, and (2) LXC is broken in Fedora (it has been broken since Fedora 15). The picture you put in your article comes from the developer webpage.

You are just a fake Linux advocate, and your blog is a disgrace.
jdixon

Jun 01, 2013
7:46 PM EDT
> I don't see why an enterprise couldn't push Fedora on the desktop.

Seriously, the length of support issue. Desktops systems are intended to last a minimum of 3 years, and many companies try to push them out to 5 or more. Upgrading the systems frequently just isn't cost effective, so you need support for the life of the system.

> There's no thought process going on here.

Obviously.
jazz

Jun 01, 2013
8:58 PM EDT
> I write in the story that I evaluated the Distro 'LAST SUMMER'

You mean you just added it now? I am sure it wasn't there last time I've checked, sorry to keep you busy. I think you've installed CrashBang it in your dreams. You didn't even notice is a type of Debian. But I guess you have no idea what Debian is.

Something else, I guess you are the only one in this moment on the Internet running Fedora 19. You are so precoce.
Dietrich

Jun 01, 2013
9:37 PM EDT
@jazz Such antagonism. Please compose yourself.

Here's a link to a public google plus post of mine:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/101839830409692150605/posts/RYmtHznvSVH

It shows me discussing my install of CrunchBang on August 30, 2012.

I started using Fedora 18 on April 17, 2013.

Prior to that I had a brief stint with Fuduntu which 'end of lifed', but used Debian/Ubuntu derivatives predominately for over 5 years.

My background includes programming on Linux, SUN Solaris mySQL, Oracle, IBM AIX/Informix and Microsoft Windows in a Health Care environment. C, C++, Delphi, Perl, for 18 years.

skelband

Jun 01, 2013
11:02 PM EDT
@Dietrich:

I can honestly say that I have never, ever come across such an offensive, self-aggrandising troll in all my many years of wandering the interwebs. I notice that you have neither responded to the comments from me nor the reasonable comments from caitlyn which actually go to the heart of your expressed opinions, yet you are bickering on like an embarrassed and cornered child to the others that are obviously baiting you.

You evidently have no intention of entering into any kind of reasoned discussion on what is quite an interesting and topical subject.
kikinovak

Jun 02, 2013
1:46 AM EDT
@Dietrich. The link is just a curt pointer to remind you of the fact that if you keep on stating Fedora is the revelation and every other distro is cr@p, then probably the Fedora forum will be the best place on earth for you, where all folks made the good decision. You strike me as the type of guy who walks into a Hells Angels bar explaining to everybody around that Harley Davidson is junk and that japanese motorcycles rule. And then you wonder why everybody feels so antagonistic and what all the fuss is about.
Dietrich

Jun 02, 2013
10:40 AM EDT
@_skelband

The 'reason' I didn't reply to you is that your remarks had 'nothing' to do with the story on which this thread is based: CrunchBang.

Please try to stay on topic and I will be happy to respond to you. Yes? Yes!

Thanks!
Dietrich

Jun 02, 2013
10:45 AM EDT
@awe poor poor Kiki what is troubling you?

C'est toujours la même chose? Tisk Tisk. C'est dommage.

Have some cookies and milk, perhaps. You'll feel better.
penguinist

Jun 02, 2013
11:59 AM EDT
It's easy to let misspelled words slip in. You probably meant to say "C'est dommage".
kikinovak

Jun 02, 2013
12:00 PM EDT
@Dietrich. Get a life.
Dietrich

Jun 02, 2013
1:42 PM EDT
@kiki You get a life.

I continue providing thought leadership. :)
Dietrich

Jun 02, 2013
1:46 PM EDT
@penguinist

Typos? Happens all the time. Corrected, thanks.
jazz

Jun 02, 2013
5:10 PM EDT
> The 'reason' I didn't reply to you is that your remarks had 'nothing' to do with the story on which this thread is based: CrunchBang.

@Dietrich

The subject of the thread is the guy who wrote the article, and not the article. Read the first post if you don't believe me.

You are totally offtopic. If you want to talk about your article, please open a new thread and don't disrupt this one. I am not interested in reading and talking about your irrelevant piece of work and your obscure website. Why would anybody want to read a CruchBang review written by a guy who never run CruchBang? Go try a scifi forum and give us a break.
Dietrich

Jun 02, 2013
5:21 PM EDT
@jazz

You are simply too funny. Much like pavlov's dog. You still refuse to accept that I have used CrunchBang, despite my supplying a thread 'to you' from Aug 30, 2012 sharing my experience with others.

Oh I just finished writing another great story:

"The Ubuntu FOSS Community: Merely Chumps on the Outside Looking In"

http://www.linuxadvocates.com/2013/06/the-ubuntu-foss-commun...

Pageviews are going thru the roof!

Please don't let me keep you from kvetching.

I'll keep providing the thought leadership.
jazz

Jun 02, 2013
5:31 PM EDT
I have no idea how you reviewed one year ago the CrunchBang version released in May 2013. You are a clown.

> Oh I just finished writing another great story:

Just be modest, as any other great man in history. Your great intelligence should be enough for you.

> Pageviews are going thru the roof!

You need to go and talk to your readers. I understand if you disappear for a few days. Go there and stay there! Anything important here, I'll call you.
Dietrich

Jun 02, 2013
6:56 PM EDT
@jazz

It was in beta. You are thicker than two two-by-fours nailed together.

You'd like me to go away? Bwahahahahahahahah.

ah. hem. decorum.
jazz

Jun 02, 2013
7:16 PM EDT
> It was in beta. You are thicker than two two-by-fours nailed together.

Sorry again, in August when you pretend you tested a beta there was no CrunchBang beta. CrunchBang 10 has been released on August 9, so you see, there was no CrunchBang 11 beta yet. So pathetic!
Dietrich

Jun 02, 2013
8:10 PM EDT
@jazz,

Semantics. It was CrunchBang Testing 20120806.

Right back atcha.
jazz

Jun 02, 2013
8:38 PM EDT
If it was testing version 20120806 sometime in August last year, why did you pretend you tested this year in May the version released this year in May??? I am trying hard to be polite here and "clown" is the mildest label I can put on you.

Just to be on the record, I believe you didn't test sh*t! You have no idea how CrunchBang looks like, you didn't even notice it is based on Debian.

Do you want to talk about your LXC article? If it is too embarrassing for you maybe some other time? I heard you are an expert in systemd! Really?
Dietrich

Jun 02, 2013
9:25 PM EDT
Have some cookies and milk while you read the story junior.

"Just to be on the record, I believe you didn't test sh*t! You have no idea how CrunchBang looks like, you didn't even notice it is based on Debian."

Wow. I so appreciate your going 'on record'. Like you weren't on record to begin with, LOL. Since you are 'now' on record, let it also confirm that you either have a memory problem and/or didn't read the story.

Here's a subtext in my story relating CrunchBang to Debian:

"CrunchBang Waldorf 11 went into production May 6, 2013 directly on the heels of Debian 7 Wheezy which was released May 4, 2013. It was a long wait for those who long for all things Debian, but it arrived. Finally. I think if I had to go back to any Debian derivative, it would be #!. It's got everything a your average technophile could wish for. And, I would be remiss if I didn't mention we have +Philip Newborough to thank for that."

And, during that August 2012 timeframe, I opened a ticket at CrunchBang requesting a backport of seccomp-bpf to the CrunchBang 11 3.2 kernel and communicated directly with Philip Newborough.

Do you have any other false assertions to lob at me? So far you are still shooting blanks.

Sleep well.
jazz

Jun 02, 2013
10:16 PM EDT
You got it wrong, it is not you I am trying to convince.

In your article you pretend you are reviewing CrunchBang May release, and in fact you admit you tested some beta image for a different version, one year before. To me this is not a review. You compiled the text of your article form public available information, added your own anti-Debian and pro-Fedora cr@p, and presented it as CrunchBang review. You failed to notice CrunchBang is based on Debian.

This is the kind of articles you have in your garbage collection at linuxadvocates dot com, and no amount of trolling here will change that. I pity those who contribute money to your site, and the other advocates there.

gus3

Jun 03, 2013
11:34 AM EDT
Dear Scott,

Could we please get an "ignore" button? Or a knob somewhere to increase the SNR?

Sincerely, gus3
kikinovak

Jun 03, 2013
11:35 AM EDT
"You'd like me to go away? Bwahahahahahahahah." (D. Schmitz)

Looks like LXer does. No links to your daily troll tsunami for the last few days.

Now let's get back to a sane signal/noise ratio, folks.

skelband

Jun 03, 2013
11:45 AM EDT
@Dietrich: I was referring to this comment:

"Cookie cutter Distros do nothing to advance the cause of Linux. Hobbyists and experimenters will remain a tiny minority on the fringes of society as one major commercial Linux Distro continues to innovate and supersede Windows.

That Distro is Red Hat.

I stake my reputation on it."

So, I repeat my original question: What is this cause of which you speak? Whose cause is it and what is its aims or is this some personal agenda that you have?

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