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A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:02 AM EST

There were two articles in the news yesterday that are not related in any detail except one. The first has to do with a notorious spammer and the second has to do with SCO.

First, the spam story. I had to clean it up a little bit, for Groklaw standards, so bear with me. Paul Sheehan, columnist at smh.com.au, writes about spam and how much he hates it. In the course of the article he writes about one spammer in particular:
The liberating speed, convenience and cost-saving of the internet and its most popular tool, email, has been polluted by people like Shane Atkinson, a New Zealander who was outed last year as one of the principle generators of [redacted] enlargement ads, sending 100 million emails a day.

Interviewed by a New Zealand newspaper, Atkinson said: "If you don't want to receive spam, don't connect to the internet, or don't have an email address."

People wanted to kill him. There was online talk of leaving a horse's head on his bed. His telephone number and address were posted on the internet: [redacted]. I called the number. It turned out to be accurate. I got his answering machine, left my name, company, phone number and a question: Did he regard himself as a parasite?

How do you feel about the columnist listing the spammer's home address and phone number? I redacted it, but he printed the entire address, including the house number. How do you feel about the columnist calling the spammer up and leaving a juvenile message on his answering machine and then writing a funny column about it? Is he a criminal and a thug? A cyberterrorist?

The very same day, there is another story about SCO's woes. It seems Blake Stowell and Darl are pitching the story about how some kids on Slashdot got his phone number and called his house. The article says they got dozens of malicious and obnoxious calls. One caller tried to call collect. They give one example. One left a message that said, "Sorry to say, but, you've been Slashdotted. Have a good Sunday."

Now I don't approve of that either. I genuinely don't. Whoever did that should be ashamed. But what is the difference? I mean what is the difference between the kids doing it and the antispammers and the columnist doing the same thing?

Now, I personally would never act that way. I don't even feel like that or talk like that. I don't make crank calls. I also don't get a lot of spam, so maybe if I was driven out of my mind, who knows? We're all just imperfect humans. But I can say I've never done anything like that. Well, not since I was a pre-teen, I haven't. Me and my girlfriends did go through a phase where we used to call people up and ask if their refrigerator was running, and then tell them they'd better go catch it. And then we'd hang up and giggle ourselves practically to death. I thought it was hilarious then, but now I have grown up, and I'm too busy dealing with SCO trolls on my website for any such childishness.

The Slashdot kids were wrong, but so is SCO. I'm sorry, but this has gotten out of all proportion, and in my opinion it seems part of a deliberate campaign to paint Linux users as thugs and criminals. Do criminals call your house collect? In an age of caller ID? Please.

May I remind everyone that all the experts I've seen recently say that MyDoom most likely came from professional spammers in Russia who want to steal your credit cards and spread ibiblio spam by means of a worm written on Windows computers for your Windows email applications on your Windows computers to spread to other Windows computers? That doesn't sound like the Linux community to me. It probably doesn't to SCO either, so now it's a story about the Slashdot kids calling his house. I wish SCO would figure out a product to sell so they'd keep out of mischief. Their litigation business isn't keeping them sufficiently occupied.

The last time I visited Slashdot, it was jammed with Microsoft users, actually, many of them pretending to be Linux users and modding each other's comments up as "Insightful" every time they'd write something bad about Linux. That's why I stopped reading Slashdot every day. It got ruined by professional PR corporate shills pretending to be community members. And everybody else seemed to be 14. For all we know, the shills called SCO to give Linux a black eye. You think I'm kidding? I'm not.

The Linux community is not Slashdot, anyway. The Linux community encompasses a broad spectrum. May I please remind you that IBM is part of the Linux community? So is Amazon. So is Merrill Lynch. So is the Army, for crying out loud. I got an email the other day from a Congressional aide and he told me the DoD loves Linux. So does NASA. And entire countries. And the UN just told you Open Source is superior to proprietary software. Linux is mainstream now. It's not going away. And it's not a criminal gang. I'm a paralegal, for heaven's sake. I don't even speed on the highway.

Now, I can't prove that there isn't a single bad guy in the entire worldwide Linux community. But SCO can't prove there isn't a single criminal in the Windows and SCO world either, can they? Last I looked, Microsoft had been found guilty of violating the antitrust laws of the US, and the European Commission, they say, is about to declare Microsoft guilty again of violating some laws over in Europe. If we are going to talk about lawlessness, let's talk about it really. Lawlessness is lawlessness.

Do you remember the famous legal case where the government had placed a keylogger on New Jersey mobster Nicodemo S. Scarfo's computer? He was the alleged mastermind of a loan shark operation there. Guess what kind of computer that mobster liked to use? Yes, he was a Windows user. So was another bad guy you can read about in a PDF defense document available in the Wired story about Scarfo. He used an IBM Thinkpad. Now, ask yourself: would it be reasonable if Linus started calling up the press and telling them that the Windows community is made up of gangsters? What would you think of reporters who wrote such a story? Wait, you say, Scarfo *was* a gangster and he *did* use Windows.

See how stupid that sounds?

You can't blame the entire community of Windows computer users because one or two or even a hundred are criminals. In fact, there are more than a hundred and you don't blame Windows. "Why, I use Windows myself", you might may cry out in protest, "and I'm no criminal." That's right. You can't blame an entire group for the actions of an individual, just because of the computer operating system they choose. It wouldn't be fair and it wouldn't be accurate.

What if it really happened though? What if Linus did that? And every time there was a hint of wrongdoing and the finger pointed to someone using a Windows computer, there was Linus, on the phone again, telling you reporters all about it, with moral indignation too. And you reporters wrote up stories with headlines that said, "Another Windows Mobster Attacks Innocent Penguins at Play." And there you would read another unfair Linus quotation all about how the Windows community is getting out of control, and then I would pop up saying that the Windows community needs to police itself better or it will find it has lost all credibility with business. Maybe Bruce Perens then sends a letter to Congress, asking that something be done about Windows mobsters who are endangering our American way of life and our economy too with their loan-sharking activities.

Now, you're a Windows user, reading these stories calling you a member of a criminal group, and your mom uses Windows. (Actually, mine really does. Sigh.) How do you feel? Maybe after a while you get so sick of it, and frustrated from the injustice of it, you write a letter to the editor. Maybe he writes you back a form letter or a dear-John-get-lost letter. And the slanted stories just keep on showing up, as if you'd never pointed out the facts. After a while, do you think it might start to get to you? Would Linus be in the right to do that? Morally, I mean?

In that same sense, what SCO is doing with their FUD is immoral. It is. They need to back off and play fair.

A bunch of silly teenagers making crank calls just like you used to do when you were a stupid kid isn't in the same league as Russian mobsters, and SCO should be ashamed of itself for trying to make you think so.

That's not to say anyone approves of crank calls. I don't. My parents were mighty upset with me, and I learned my lesson. No doubt there are some parents out there dealing with some foolishness right about now in their homes. But let's keep this in proportion, shall we? Everybody needs to calm down and remember: we are all human beings here.


  


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A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:32 AM EST
<i>We are all human beings here</i>

I'm not. I'm a dog. Ribbit! (I suffer from a periodic delusion I'm a
frog.)

[ Reply to This | # ]

BBC
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:32 AM EST
Sorry to keep posting this, but i want it to get read:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3457823.stm

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: Mark Levitt on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:33 AM EST
Well said.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: chris_bloke on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:33 AM EST

Hear hear! Well said PJ.

Though I do read slashdot, I don't take it personally. :-)

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Oh, yeah? - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 09:55 AM EST
Poetic Justice
Authored by: mobrien_12 on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:37 AM EST
No I don't approve of unsolicited phone calls, but in the case of the spammer,
it's simply poetic justice. If the spammer complains, a caller can say to him
"If you don't want unsolicited phone calls you shouldn't connect to the
phone network and shouldn't have a telephone number." It's a matter of the
spammer living by his own rules.

Darl is another matter. No, calling his home number isn't cool. Poetic justice
for Darl will be the loss of many lawsuits, the death of his company, and some
personal responsibility for the crap he is spewing.

However, I find the whole claim of "slashdotting" of Darl's phone
number to be highly suspicious. I have seen NO proof that his number was posted
anywhere (if someone can find it, I'd like to know). Furhtermore, if people
kept calling him over and over and over again, why didn't he take the phone off
the hook?




[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: RSC on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:46 AM EST
Once again the press of the world have proven they have no idea what balanced
and unbiased reporting really is.

The number of inaccurate stories I have seen and heard about the MyDoom over the
last week makes me want to vomit. It is obvious that you can not tust anything
the media says now a days. You are stuck trying to find the truth yourself.

With out Groklaw, how many people would actually know the truth behind the SCO
circus?

I have a feeling that if the media do not pick up their standards, more
"Groklaws" will start, and they will loose their market.

RSC



---
----
An Australian who IS interested.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: john82a on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:47 AM EST
It's just so irritating. In today's Guardian (a UK newspaper,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,1140962,00.html), the online
columnist, David McCandless, has this quote "Whoever wrote MyDoom is
definitely a Linux fan," says Jack Clark, technology consultant at McAfee
Associates, an anti-virus company. Most Linux users, however, condemn the virus
author..."
MyDoom certainly seems to have captured a lot of attention, but most of it just
perpetuates second-hand rubbish.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:48 AM EST
I wonder why it is such a shock that some people have these kind off reactions?
FOSS is has been (as far as I understand) work done by volunteers and mostly
individuals. There has always been strong reactions when companies are treating
individual peoples badly - why would they expect it to be different now?

[ Reply to This | # ]

An Insigtfull note
Authored by: shareme on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 05:02 AM EST
Please note

That the virus writer would have had to be a fan of insecure and bad windwos
coding inorder to take advantage of all the insecure problems with windows in
the first place all for collecting Credit Card NUmbers via keylogging..

If SCO Group wants to FUD on a distraction instead of their case, let them..

and PS ..if you do not run MS Explorer or MS Outlook you do not get infected
even when running windows!




---
Sharing and thinking is only a crime in those societies where freedom doesn't
exist.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: ekj on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 05:05 AM EST
I think the spam-thing is a little different. Atleast for many of us.

Sending me spam is clearly and unctronversially illegal by Norwegian law. Even
foreign spammers come in under this when they do bussiness directed at
Norwegians in Norway, and it's pretty universally well-known that .no means
Norway.

It's also a fact that authorities are unable to do much about it. It's simply
too much trouble to go after some US spammer, if they started doing it, they
could spend their entire budget on this single issue, and it'd not change the
flood of spam much at all. Goes with being a small country.

If I happen to know the adress and/or phone-number of someone illegally sending
me spam, is it then out of line for me to send them a letter kindly requesting
that they cease and desist their illegal spamming ? Is it out of line if I call
them with the same request, in polite terms ?

I really *do* wish they would stop. It really *is* illegal what they are doing.
Have we come so far that even politely asking a criminal to stop breaking the
law is considered harassment ?

Yes, I know, the practical upshot when thousands of people start complaining
about something like spam is harassing for the spammer. I fail to see why that's
not his own fault from deciding to break the law thousands or millions of times
every week though.

Now, if you live somewhere where spamming is legal, you should obviously take
your clue-stick to the politicians that make it so, rather than to the spammers
that take advantage of this.

[ Reply to This | # ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3457823.stm
Authored by: stutchbury on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 05:06 AM EST
I have sent the following response to Stephan Evans' article on the BBC website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3457823.stm

FAO: Stephen Evans

Were it not for your title: "BBC North America *Business* Correspondent", I would have read your article as as mediocre piece of satire. Even so, it is comical to see a 'professional' journalist look so foolish.

In the light of the David Kelly tragedy, I expected the BBC's correspondents to try to restore it's honest and trustworthy reputation, but this article is so full of factual errors that it smacks of someone with an axe to grind. MyDoom, as with every other virus/trojan/etc, is not about vindictiveness, it is about greed - either for money or noteriety.

What is surprising in your rush to aportion blame on entire community for the actions of a few unconnected individuals, is that you make no mention of the underlying cause of all this malware: the inherent insecurities of the Microsoft platform.

An opinion, no matter how passionately held, only holds value if it is backed up by evidence. For an excellent demonstration of this art form please take a look at http://www.groklaw.net

If you can support any of your opinion with facts, I would be pleased to continue this discussion via the email address above.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: jmc on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 05:23 AM EST
I would agree that whilst Darl (plus his cronies) is undoubtedly a liar and
involved in a stock scam for his own personal gain, all those opposing him
should do everything by the book. It's a long and tedious wait, but the law will
take its course. With any luck some of the [redacted] will start hitting the fan
tomorrow.

I don't have any sympathy though with the spammer who has his details published.
He invaded the privacy of millions of other people and got their email addresses
unfairly, what has he to complain about?

I think people should remember though that 90% of spammers are people who've
moved from drug-dealing and fraud to spamming as it pays more and doesn't
involve the odd jail term here and there. You're not dealing with nice people at
all. I was rung up and threatened with physical violence about a year ago by a
spammer about whom I'd complained to the ISP.

Despicable as Darl is, he is probably angelic by comparison with the
slime-dwellers behind most spam.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: Anonymous Coward on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 05:53 AM EST
I keep seeing people complaining about the lack of acurate coverage about this case (or just about anything that gets covered these days by the news [in what ever form]).
I sent a letter to a journalist in the local newspaper about his errors in the MyDoom piece he wrote (SCO is an ISP, must have been written by someone who dislikes SCO, etc).
He wrote back a personally. This is a free translation (free as in keep the facts but not strict wording/sentences/names).

Thanks for writing but you seem to have missed the more obvious problem that comes with journalism these days. It is not for the lack of wanting to do good background research that these kind of mistakes happen. It is because the people who read the newspaper want tomorrows news today. There is simply no time anymore to do decent research. I can write the most beautiful and factually acurate piece for the newspaper but if it gets printed a day after another newspaper has covered it, it is considered old news at that point. If people read to much so called old news while seeing that another newspaper manages to have the same news (with inacuracies) a day earlier guess which newspaper they are going to buy/subscribe. Thus my boss wants the news now. If he thinks I'm holding back I'll lose my job (eventually) because I'm costing the newspaper revenue, even though by holding back a day I would be able to write a better piece.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: FrankH on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 06:08 AM EST
"They need to back off and play fair."

I think I just saw a Gloucester Old Spot and a Vietnamese Pot Belly fly past.
:-)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Why blame slashdot?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 07:03 AM EST
Darl's phone number and home address could be found on google. I don't think it
was put there maliciously. I wouldn't be surprised if it's still there.

[ Reply to This | # ]

How many Wrongs in the phone book?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 07:04 AM EST
I don't normally have much to add to moralizing pieces, but one thought does
occur to me.

Spammers claim moral high ground for themselves, as do the spammer-slammers that
slashdot McBrides. While you may rightly complain neither are behaving well it
is at least a good thing that the entire population of wrongheaded people in
this world are not all on the same side. I would rather neither be around, but
having one work to cancel out the other is the lesser of two evils. As you
indicate in your article, bad people are going to use computers. Do you think
it a sin to prefer that at least some of them be spammer vigilantes instead of
gangsters?

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: Stephan Schulz on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 07:25 AM EST
For me, there is a clear difference here. Calling a spammer at home may be illegal, and it may be bad taste, but I have no moral qualms about it. It's essentially tit-for-tat - they block and disturb my communication medium, so I do it to theirs.

Now, Darl may be scum as well, but he is working on a different level. The correct answer to his attack is exactly what we are doing here - exposing his lies and propaganda, and in the end, bury him with the legal system. Again, tit-for-tat (are you still allowed to write "tit" after the super bowl?).

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage - what to do
Authored by: elrond_2003 on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 07:28 AM EST
Actually it is not the editor to whom you should write. Express your outrage to
the sponsers by letting them know that you will not buy their products and
services because of their support of these slanders. Sponsors have the
influence to change editors minds. Of course, if the sponsor is MS then we
already know who ordered the articles to be slanted.




---
free as in speech.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: Steve Martin on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 07:50 AM EST
"UserFriendly" chimes in again. A welcome humor break.

---
"When I say something, I put my name next to it." -- Isaac Jaffee, "Sports Night"

[ Reply to This | # ]

Mr. Unpopular
Authored by: _Arthur on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 07:53 AM EST
Here is a third misinformation article:
http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2004/02/04/
mr_unpopular/

Heavy payload of FUD.

How could Linux, little more than a hobbyist's tool a few years earlier,
compare with heavy-duty Unix code? McBride began to suspect that IBM was
simply donating portions of its AIX code to the Linux community, to hasten
the day when Linux and Unix were functional equals -- the day when SCO's
business would essentially cease to exist.

So McBride ordered an investigation of the code by SCO engineers and
outside experts. He says they've uncovered dozens of examples in which IBM
mingled SCO-owned code with Linux. IBM denies the claim, saying that SCO's
lawsuit is a desperate bid by a fading software company

The author concludes:
The IBM controversy hasn't harmed SCO's business performance -- quite the
contrary. The company made a profit of 34 cents a share in fiscal 2003,
compared to a $1.93 per share loss in 2002. And its stock price over the past
year leaped from just over a dollar to more than $22. SCO Group shares
closed at $13.30 yesterday on the Nasdaq stock exchange.

And so far, love him or hate him, McBride has come through.

----
Of course, SCO's accounting is as phony as its claims. SCOX claims the M$
and SUN "Licences" as recurring income, while categorizing its
mounting legal
costs as one-time exceptional expense. Yeah, nice Profit, Darl.

You can go thru the article with marker, not a single one paragraph left un-
FUD-filled.

_Arthur

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: blacklight on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 08:02 AM EST
"In that same sense, what SCO is doing with their FUD is immoral. It is.
They need to back off and play fair."

To ask the SCO Group to play fair is about as futile as asking the Chinese
Imperial executioner to spare you from the Death of the Thousand Cuts: (a) it's
begging; (b) it's pathetic, and (c) it won't work. The SCO Group's entire
strategic paradigm is based on not playing fair, just as the Chinese Imperial
executioner is paid to give you the Death of the Thousand Cuts. What works is
the total defeat of the SCO Group both in the courts of law and the courts of
public opinion and disaster in the marketplace, just as what works with the
Chinese Imperial executioner is a bullet through the head.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • FUD - Authored by: Woelfchen on Friday, February 06 2004 @ 08:25 AM EST
Food for thought.
Authored by: converted on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 08:23 AM EST
IANAS (I am not a spammer)

This is my personal opinion off course, but why do spammers spam? Because they
make large amounts of money doing? Perhaps. Thery're evil? Again...perhaps. But
what keeps spammers in business? My thought is that it's companies with a
product to pedal. So who is really responsible? The spammer or the market that
created it? I know here in Canada both prostitute and those seeking they're
services can both be charged for a crime. Same with drug dealers and those
looking for their products. Should it not be the company hiring the spammer that
is penalized? (no pun intended)

"I am not a demographic! I am a human being!"

[ Reply to This | # ]

The Logical Flaw
Authored by: RDH on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 08:24 AM EST
I personally think PJ pointed something out in a rather interesting manner that
seems to get lost in the shuffle. Spam brings up strong emotions. SCO brings up
strong emotions. Put the two together, and it is a combustive mix. Whoever wrote
the MyDoom virus thought carefully about how to implement the virus to extract
the maximum effect. They virus author succeeded, and PJ sheds light on it by
using some excellent examples.

There is a tendency to use syllogistic logic in the PR we see coming from both
sides. Here is an example of what I mean:

All cats have ears. All humans have ears. Therefore, cats are human.

This is the problem with using a single characteristic to define one group as
the same as another. The anti-Linux camp tried to do it with MyDoom, as well as
other items (GPL, for one), and I have seen on Groklaw the same inclination
beginning to take hold. It was, perhaps, sponsored by Mr. Parens attempt to
anti-FUD the MyDoom FUD. However, the approach can often backfire, as PJ
astutely points out.

Example:

Windows has exploitable bugs. Thugs use Windows for illegal practices.
Therefore, all Windows users are thugs.

Both PJ's mother and mine own take exception to this. However, the same has been
applied to the Linux community, and we react strongly.

Example:

MyDoom includes an attack on the SCO web site. The Linux community despises SCO.
Therefore, MyDoom came from the Linux community.

PJ was very clever in showing the flaws of this type of logic without beating us
over the head with it. It is up to us to see the value of this article and
understand the intent. Moderation is the keyword here that I consistently hear
in the article: moderate emotions and reactions. The Linux community needs to
stand apart from this banal war of flawed logic, and simply show it for what it
is. If we get caught up in the fray, then we will ultimately smear ourselves.

Thanks, PJ, for the wake up call.

RDH

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Here's an anlayst
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 08:36 AM EST
with his finger on the pulse!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Is there any evidence of the Slashdot pranking?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 08:53 AM EST
The Slashdot editors are good folks. Has anyone contacted them to try to verify
or refute McBride's story? It shouldn't be hard -- either his contact
information is currently on slashdot, in which case it should be findable by a
brief search, or they made an editorial decision to remove it, which somebody
would remember, or the story is total hogwash.

In any case, it's better to have some knowledge of the facts than just to assume
that McB is telling the truth.

Bill Gribble


[ Reply to This | # ]

Moral indignation ?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 09:27 AM EST
PJ

as a Paralegal I am sure you are a model of civic virtue. I also think I
understand your opinions as you have expressed them. However I have to agree
with some of the others who have posted, said spammer probably goaded so many
people with his statement, he got what he deserved, and it was not that
unreasonable for the Journo' to ring and ask him how he responded to being
labled a parasite or whatever, leaving a number for a reply, not particularily
juvenille ?

The SCO situation is different. They are indulging in Psychological warfare, I
know, I am a part-time practioner of the art (Army reserves). They are
conducting "black" psyops, what they say maybe a lie, but by the time
such lies are refuted the damage has been done in the psyche of many of the
target audience.

You may not know it but you are indulging in "white" psyops - this
site is broadcasting the truth in an attempt to influence people in the right
way, for which we are all eternally grateful.

However aren't there really some bigger issues in the world to get upset about ?
If I wanted to be really juvenille I could mention that fact that the US Air
Force generally speaking manages to kill more British soldiers than the enemy
everytime we go to war to support the U.S. ........

[ Reply to This | # ]

Linux at the BBC
Authored by: rand on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 09:34 AM EST
The "Linux Community" includes the BBC, so maybe BBC really hates BBC.

Linux at the BBC

---
The Wright brothers were not the first to fly an aircraft...they were the first to LAND an aircraft. (IANAL and whatever)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Outrage?
Authored by: brenda banks on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 09:45 AM EST
darl makes wild accusations and accuses us of being commies,cyber
terrorist,theives and the list goes on.but then he gets shocked when these
people are so offended they call his cell phone? well surprise ,surprise they
were offended just as much as he is
in fact one fact has been overlooked here
the big fact that noone has noticed
each of us are INDIVIDUALS with the protection of the US CONSTITUTION
sco is a business and ISN'T protected as we are.this is one fact that seems to
be slipping away from USA citizens
we do have the right to call someone that has harrassed us and ask WHY?
as long as we are polite"?
calling his home phone and harassing his family would be a no-no tho but his
cell phone is not harming his family.
darl is harming our reputations and trying to do so in such a way we have little
hope to challenge the facts.
we can raise doubts but you cant prove a negative.calling someone is not
something i do but i dont see where it is illegal yet to do so from an
individual to ask why?



---
br3n

irc.fdfnet.net #groklaw
"sco's proof of one million lines of code are just as believable as the
raelians proof of the cloned baby"

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Outrage? - Authored by: chrism on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 10:32 AM EST
  • Outrage? - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 02:33 PM EST
  • Outrage? - Authored by: PJ on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 06:44 PM EST
    • Outrage? - Authored by: RSC on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 07:48 PM EST
      • Outrage? - Authored by: plex on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 11:10 PM EST
A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 10:13 AM EST
Had the BBC written an article like that about members of an ethnic minority
there would be an outrage. The bbc must apologise.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Want to know what REAL spammers are like?
Authored by: TFBW on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 11:04 AM EST
Darl McBride and the spammer in New Zeland have had it
mild. At the risk of launching into a rant which includes
the phrases "luxury", and "uphill both ways", I've copped
it far worse than these guys have ever done. In March
2003, a group of spammers decided that they didn't like
certain anti-spam remarks I made on my website. They
demanded that I modify my website to suit their
sensibilities, or be subject to cyber-assault. If you've
never read an account like this before, then you may well
be underestimating the sheer depths to which spammers will
sink in order to have things their way.

To give you a quick foretaste, one attack involved them
sending popup messages to computers all over the east
coast of Australia, warning people that I'm a known
pedophile and in the area, with my personal phone numbers
included as numbers to call for further information. I kid
you not. The gall of those spammers was staggering.

The best chronicles of the matter are on Slashdot journal
pages. (I needed to get information up on the web
somewhere other than my own website, since it was about to
be DDoSed of the net.) Bear in mind that you need to read
the journal entries from bottom to top in order to get
chronological order.

This first journal chronicles the various techniques that
the spammers used, apart from plain old "Joe Job" spam. I
feign ignorance as to who they are in some of these
journal entries. I also get a little feedback from other
people who find out about the attack and post comments.

http://slashdot.org/journal.pl?op=list&uid=210307

The following journal gives more of the back-story -- the
prelude to the war -- including the threat letters they
sent me. It makes informative reading if you can spare the
time.

http://slashdot.org/journal.pl?op=list&uid=12688

Based on the above, you can understand why I have no
problem at all accepting the "spammers dunnit" theory of
the MyDoom virus.

[ Reply to This | # ]

if you can't innovate, sue, sue...
Authored by: glchisum on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 11:17 AM EST
this whole sco thing seems to represent some of the worst in american business
practices and perhaps american culture. i am an american. sco can't or doesn't
want to bring out new products or improving existing products by implementing
new ideas/approaches/features that are clearly desired by the unix user
community.

i have just read the articles in infoworld about the amazing features in the new
2.6 linux kernel. WOW! the new kernel and it's creators seem to be focusing on
how to improve their product to meet the needs of modern businesses and the rest
of us who require advanced features.

my question: How does the current versions of unix stack up against the new 2.6
kernel?

there is an old saying 'that if you can't teach, then teach others how to teach,
and if you can't do that, then become a school administrator'. it does seem that
darl and company really can't innovate. they are more into harassing their
customes than in helping them.

gary

---
What doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger!!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Emotionally defective spammers
Authored by: Peter Smith on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 11:31 AM EST
I would say thay, by and large, spammers are *somewhat* ? intelligent but
emotionally retarded.
So they may devise effective spamming worms (witness MyDoom) but I am sure they
can't resist childish little (or big) pranks. So, out of some grudge or other,
one of them makes it attack SCO at the same time.
I would guess that they are innately resentful of authority and so would target
anything that represents an authority figure, regardless of ideology. (these are
unprincipled opportunists whose only ideology is personal benefit)

I think the explanation really is that simple.

On the other hand I think that MS is mounting a well planned, in-depth campaign
against Open Source and they of course could not resist exploiting this heaven
sent opportunity.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Judging others
Authored by: auric on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 11:45 AM EST
Well put, PJ.

I think there are many people today that need to get a sense of perspective of
issues. Like seeing a breast on TV and thinking it's the end of the world. As
you've pointed out Linux is big enough now to take care of itself.

Moral highgrounding can lead people into dangerous situations they would
normally consider unacceptable when angry or frustrated. A spammer having their
mailbox blocked by spam is a delicious irony, but it is not our place to decide
guilt. In our society only a judge in a court of law has authority to decide
questions of guilt. Disregard and society breaks down.

IANAL

[ Reply to This | # ]

Chill, PJ!
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 12:07 PM EST
I don't think it's a really big deal. Whatever you and Linus and Bruce Perens
and Eric Raymond and anyone else say, some Linux fans will act immaturely, and
bogus Linux fans will act immaturely, and those who want to blame the Linux
community will do so.

Not to discourage you, or anyone, from counseling restraint. Please do. But
the issues of law are not going to be changed by the behavior of non-parties,
and the issues of Linux and open source will ultimately not be changed by law.
I am hopeful that the legal issues will be resolved sanely, because if they are
not, it will simply breed more disrespect for law. That is the bigger risk, in
my opinion, but I really doubt that it will happen in this case.

So cheer up, and thanks for bringing us really good stuff here.

brain[sic]

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 12:09 PM EST
"You can't blame an entire group for the actions of an individual, just
because of the computer operating system they choose. It wouldn't be fair and it
wouldn't be accurate."

PJ, you're exactly right. Please, in the future keep this in mind when you are
tempted to make more unflattering remarks about the state of Utah, the city of
Lindon, and/or the public schools there.

Steve

[ Reply to This | # ]

Completely Missing the Point
Authored by: inode_buddha on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 12:47 PM EST
I am reminded of a famous Gandhi quote:

"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world will be blind."

Not that I disagree with many grokker's (and slashdotter's) feelings; I'm tempted the same way myself.

However:
Giving in to these temptations becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: Darl and a few spammers can now (rightly) say that some elements of the OSS community are a bunch of thugs at best. Of course, they'll paint things with a *very* broad brush... after all, they have a case to make.

Other posters here have quite aptly shown the abuses of syllogistic reason. Let's not *give* the press, SCO, or spammers any ammo. That's just dumb.

Both Darl and spammers are working white-collar professionals. They may have legal and financial issues at the moment. Hence, the best way to make the desired impression will be through professional, legal, and financial channels. Crank-calling is none of the above, and proves nothing. Signing a spammer up for *tons* of junk snail mail probably constitutes fraud of some kind (IANAL).

To summarize my position:
It's very tempting to pull these stunts, but then one descends *morally* down a slippery slope to the same level as one's antagonists. The entire point of antagonists is to elicit this kind of behavior - it gives a logical advantage to them. Why? Because then they can abuse syllogistic logic all over the map.

In other words, McBride and spammers have won that point.

---
"Truly, if Te is strong in one, all one needs to do is sit on one's ass, and the corpse of one's enemy shall be carried past shortly." (seen on USENET)

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: SCO's stock price is tanking...
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 01:30 PM EST
The end begins.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: grayhawk on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 02:10 PM EST
Common folks, I can't get upset over what is happening to SCO or anyone else
that uses the internet or media to verbally abuse the innocent.

My mother taught me as a child "Poke at a bee's nest with a stick long
enough and you will get stung and then when you do don't go blaming the bees or
come crying to me!"

What folks like DMcB and the spammer are getting should come as no surprise to
anyone least of all them. No I don't think there is justification for the
actions of a few irrate folks against the likes of them but then everyone has a
breaking point. How long can anyone sit and get verbally abused, defamed et al
and not hit a breaking point. Abuse regardless the form is wrong and eventually
someone will strike back. All that shows is the weakness in our laws and the
slowness in the courts that permits this type of abuse to go on for months and
years. Justice should be swift and decisive in order to prevent people from
taking the law into their own hands and thus striking back anyway they can.
Vigilanteism usually results when it appears to folks that the courts and
authorities aren't doing their job the way society expects of them.

I condone neither the tact and acts of SCO and its cronies, the tact of the
spammers, the RIAA, Microsoft and most certainly those crackers and virii
creators because they all are the same. The intent of some of these is to
create havoc, cause harm, for others its to force folks into accepting nothing
less then their way of thinking or operating, for some the search for noteriety
at the expense of others and for some its nothing more than greed for the
almighty dollar and the destruction of anyone else who may be seen as the one
standing in the way of that objective.

So lets not jump and defend SCO or a spammer who by their deeds have brought
about the action of a vigilante. Their deeds are the same as the folks who now
strike back at them except they do it in the guise of an upstanding member of
the community. Lets quickly and decisively proscecute them as we would the
vigilante for they are as much a threat to the system as any cracker or virus
writer. In so doing we prevent an innocent from stepping over that line and
becoming the next vigilante.

---
All ships are safe in a harbour but that is not where they were meant to be.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Pulitzer Prize for PJ
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 03:41 PM EST
PJ, I know this will probably catch you off guard, but I sincerely hope someone
at the Pulitzer Prize committee is paying attention to this site, and your
work.

First, and most obvious, Groklaw is and has been the most consistent, most
believable source of information available on SCO. You've been a solid source
of truth to counter the lies, innuendo, and misrepresentations we've seen from
various quarters. On that basis alone, you'd be a shoo-in. But there is more.

While you've parried every SCO thrust, you've also kept a level head. No
taunting. No "told ya so". The result is a world-class news site.
Very focused, fair, and world class.

Don't worry about "reporters" and "analysts" that get quoted
in the press. It's going to happen - it's planned that way by Congress, who,
after all, have not only relaxed ownership rules for radio, TV, and news, but
made a mockery of the patent and copyright fundamentals of the US Constitution.
They should hang their collective heads in shame, though I doubt more than a
handful would be honest enough to admit their errors; you, on the other hand,
have been a guiding light for tens of thousands of people who give of themselves
in the creation of Linux and other items of value to the general public.

There is no praise adequate to the task of showing you to be the eloquent
spokesperson, voice of reason and truth, and general "good egg". A
Pulitzer would, in my opinion, be nowhere near enough. You've introduced an
entire editorial and legal discovery revolution, for heaven's sake! But the
control exerted by too few over too much of our "news", says the Prize
is unlikely to reach your hands. Would but that it were a more intelligent and
fairer world.

You get my vote anyway.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Globe and Mail talk Linux
Authored by: nattt on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:25 PM EST
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/
RTGAM.20040204.gtkapica0205_HP/BNStory/Front/

"...Utah-based SCO Group, which is suing almost every Linux vendor on the
basis that Linux contains chunks of Unix code, on which SCO holds patents
and copyrights."

But as we know, SCO hold no patents on UNIX.

"...And it had pundits wondering whether MyDoom had in fact been created
by the "penguinistas" themselves, venting their anger by launching a
"denial-
of-service" attack against SCO Group and Microsoft."

And some people think SCO did it for the sympathy, but that's probably as
innacurate as saying some Linux guru did it. It would seem that the major
thrust of the worm was spam related.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: mbullock48 on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:25 PM EST
This comment sort of bothers me.

"The last time I visited Slashdot, it was jammed with Microsoft users,
actually, many of them pretending to be Linux users and modding each other's
comments up as "Insightful" every time they'd write something bad
about Linux. That's why I stopped reading Slashdot every day. It got ruined by
professional PR corporate shills pretending to be community members."

It is easy to circle the wagons when you are under the gun from folks like scox,
but this just sounds like crazy talk. Nietzshe says it best:

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not
become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into
you."

Last time I checked, slashdot bills itself as "news for nerds" not
"news for linux nerds only". I like slashdot because there are users
from different backgrounds with different preferences. Yes, there is some
childishness at times, but I don't buy into the undercover microsoft
conspirators theory. What is the evidence for this? My advise is beware the
dangers of cyberbalkanization. Just as the internet is making a wealth of
information available, technology is making it possible for information
consumers to narrowly tailor the range of information they see. Human nature
also seems to dictate that people are most comfortable with information that
reinforces views they already hold. There is a great article in NYTimes about
this (Politics of the Web: Meet, Greet, Segregate, Meet Again, January 25, 2004,
By AMY HARMON) I'd be very wary of speaking badly about a site because forum
users who are not "in the community" dare to express a different
opinion. It is important to distinguish between non-productive speech (online
folks call it trolling) and open debate. So, it seems like care should be take
before branding someone with the star of david and declaring them "not part
of the community". A review of history shows where this approach to
community ends up. I work in the technology field now, but my background is in
philosophy. Unfortunately philosophy doesn't pay very well. Personally, I
believe that truth is an illusive thing. Look at things from different angles
and watch how your perception changes. If one is to approach truth, I think
this is done by adding up as many perspectives as possible. Overlay the various
versions of the truth and look for the region of union. Sure Microsoft is the
"Evil Empire", but wasn't it just a couple of years ago that Darth
Bill himself got blasted by the rest of the high-tech community for his comments
about technology and the third world. If I recall the other execs were talking
about saving the world by giving everyone laptops and Bill says, hold on now
these people don't need computers they need clean water. My point is you rarely
find things in the world that are all good or all bad, and if something looks
all good, then you better be extra careful with it. I think the linux
revolution is fascinating and I hope it continues, but please lets not engage
the close-minded politics of “in” versus “out” that lacks all sense of
perspective. Wouldn't it be a shame if open-source software becomes the
province of a closed-community?

regards,
Mike Bullock

[ Reply to This | # ]

PJ reads Slashdot?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 04:28 PM EST

Wow! Sort of a surprise to me though I'm sure she limits her browsing to posts with a score of 3-4 or higher. I pretty much gave up (quite a while ago) on Slashdot being a forum for conducting any sort of meaningful discussion. It wasn't always that way. In the past (my user ID over there is in the very, very low five-digits) you could actually carry on interesting ``conversations'' with other enthusiasts. Nowadays, I use it as a means of finding out whether anything notable has occurred and then follow story links or look elsewhere for the details and any discussions.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Inquirer article
Authored by: tgf on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 05:24 PM EST
The Inquirer has a similar article today:
Can-spam law as useless as a useless thing

...
So now, we are taking matters into out own hands and are launching our own anti-spam crusade, designed to out the bastards that waste so many of our man-hours each day.

First up is a Viagra salesman who has no idea that we have his home address and that he is about to become possibly the most hated man in Internetland. Stay tuned. µ


So, should I just forward the Inq this GrokLaw article?

Tim

---
Oxymoron of the day:
Microsoft Word

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 05:26 PM EST
A "community" cannot be made respnsible for every act of its
individual.
If a salesman is a cheater we don't call all salesman cheaters.

Even if its proven that a linux fan wrote the virus ...we cannot blame every
linux
user in the world.

And the linux "community" in general in everyday life have been very
good people
by all standards.

Tizan

[ Reply to This | # ]

Paul Sheehan has no credibility
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 05 2004 @ 06:24 PM EST
I live in Australia and I have seen Sheehan's writings pop up in many
"opinion" columns in varous computer trade magazines. Every time he
writes he demonstates his lack of credibility. It causes me to stop reading or
purchasing that publication. It seems now he is writing for mainstream
newspapers (SMH usually has a better standard of editing than this, perhaps it's
time for me to stop reading it as well).
Very tastless article. I am upset that I cannot add feedback on the web site
either. Shame SMH, shame.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Contrast in Moral Outrage
Authored by: John Hasler on Friday, February 06 2004 @ 07:29 PM EST
> It got ruined by professional PR corporate shills pretending
> to be community members. And everybody else seemed to be 14.

So are Bruce Perens and I professional PR corporate shills, or are we both 14?

I understand that you don't like Slashdot, and that's fine. However, it's no
excuse to engage in just the sort of behavior you are complaining about.

[ Reply to This | # ]

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