Suggestions for openSUSE
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| SamShazaam Aug 03, 2005 9:42 AM EDT |
I have been a SUSE fan for a number of years. IMHO SUSE YAST is the best installer around. Please consider the following suggestion:
1) Avoid dependency hell and adopt a better package manager such as debian or even Gentoo's Portage.
2) Reduce SUSE's massive configuration files.
3) A better way to compile the kernel. I frequently have different things break depending on how I configure the system.
4) Everything should work out of the box and before patching. I think that SUSE can easily become the best desktop around. |
| cjcox Aug 05, 2005 7:30 AM EDT |
What dependency hell? You mean when you install a NON-SUSE package? SUSE doesn't suffer from dependency hell. If you've ever tried to use Red Hat, you begin to appreciate the extra thought that went into some of SUSE's init files. Red Hat certainly suffers quite a bit from dependency hell. I've seen many a circular dependent patch from them. Most people don't follow the correct steps when compiling their kernels and fall into traps. Also, since this is a managed distribution, customization is NOT going to be well supported. That's my way of saying if you're going to do a lot of customization at the kernel level, you may be better off with something else (a Debian variant perhaps?). #4 is interesting... obviously ALL distributions have issues... but SUSE fixes in a pretty timely manner. I'm betting you're talking about things where SUSE has to take on the US gov't directly.. I doubt any change will be made there. SUSE is already the best desktop around IMHO (insert flames here). |
| Abe Aug 05, 2005 9:14 AM EDT |
CICox: I too have been using Suse for a long time. I have looked at and evaluated many other distros but Suse has always been the best all around for me. In regards to "dependency hell", I tend to agree to a certain extent. YaST is great. It works flawlessly as YOU (Yast On-line Update), but when it comes to installing/updating applications, even if they were release by Suse, you still get into dependency issues with libs and others. It is not as easy as it should be. I can handle it but many non-IT users will have problems. It would be great if Suse would adopt Synaptic, it sure would make things much much better. Another area where Sues can do a lot better is the Multi-Media area. I know they have to deal with proprietary issues, but nothing that they can't get around by putting the responsibility on the user, sort of like they did with downloading MS Fonts and Nvida drives. They created scripts which make it so easy to download and activate those. Why can't they do the same for Codecs and others? IANAL, but I thing the fonts issue is the same as Codecs. Other than those two issues, Suse is great as a desktop and server. I am sure it will be much better with their new strategy. I already can see it in Suse 9.3. Before, when I had dependency issue, it was a time consuming to find what is needed, it gotten much better because, right now they have a pretty good search, you furnish the name and it finds it on their ftp servers and tells you where to get it. Before, I used to have to look every to find what is needed. By the way, contrary to what is being advertised in articles on the net, Novell's plan is not the same as Red Hat's "FUDdora" plan, it is much better and more extensive. Novell needed this long time ago to expand their user base. I am glad they finally committing to it. |
| cjcox Aug 05, 2005 3:13 PM EDT |
Can you be specific about the library dependency issues? I haven't seen this. Sure.. you did get a lot of dependent packages... SUSE tends to make everything with batteries included.. so you end up with a lot more dependent packages being installed than with other distros. Muti-media as mentioned is a legal issue.. not a SUSE (per se) issue. If you supply the scripts to automate the performing of the illegal deed, you can be held liable. There is certainly some similarity to Fedora.... we'll see.... I know many expect the consumer line (SUSE Professional) to continue. My gut feel is that Novell will kill this. Again, we'll see. |
| Abe Aug 05, 2005 3:40 PM EDT |
For instance, download the periodic updates from the ftp, under supplementals, on mirror sites for KDE and applications. My experience has always been to find a few *.rpm packages that would need lib files. I get the lib files to find those in turn need other files. So on and so on. What I usually do, when it doesn't get convoluted, is remove those that have the dependencies and install without them. The process of finding dependencies has gotten simpler because of search on Suse site and the availability of the whole distro rpms. I am expecting things to vastly improve. In regards to Novell killing Suse disto, I don't think this will ever happen because Suse is Novell now. Suse is the only thing Novel has going for it now. It would be killing itself. |
| salparadise Aug 06, 2005 8:19 PM EDT |
I had a play with SuSE 9.3 recently.
I didn't get on too well with 9.0-9.2 and have learned to be suspicious of SuSE's promises.
They seemed to have taken care of a number of previous irritations, the Mulitmedia packs available through YOU in particular. However, on my main box with a G-Force 5 in, the screen wobbled constantly until I installed the NVIDIA drivers, by hand, because the one that came via YOU didn't work. Then, after installing all the available patches via YOU the desktop disappeared and wouldn't return. Hello, I thought, SuSE hasn't changed at all. I don't understand why it is that out of all the distros I've tried, I always end up in a mess with SuSE. And while I'm here... Can someone explain to me why recent Linux news has been full of "Novell to make SUSE open source" ? I sort of thought it already was. |
| cjcox Aug 06, 2005 9:32 PM EDT |
Abe, you are downloading non-supported rpm's into your SUSE distribution. You SHOULD fully expect dependency hell (as with any other distribution running ANY package manager). |
| Abe Aug 07, 2005 7:23 AM EDT |
cjcox: I knew that, but shouldn't they be supported to make Suse a better distro? KDE updates are part of having a good reliable functionally complete and up to date system. Everyone wants to have that. How much of an effort does it take? Mandrake, Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS, etc. all adopted Synaptic to furnish that to their users. Shouldn't Suse do the same to stay in business? I think they now realize that and they are opening up to get help from the community. I think this move is going to be very benefitial. |
| cjcox Aug 07, 2005 8:05 PM EDT |
Abe, So... since there is NO uniformity among developers, you are asking for SUSE to somehow manage to support all the plethora of locations/etc differences and magically make them work no matter what the foreign package is? That' s a pretty tall order. With regards to bleeding edge being what everyone wants... you have to realize that some people want a system that is maintained by the vendor and not one that encourages each install to become a custom one off (typical of any Red Hat shop btw). If you want to build your own kernel, add your own packages, tweak your own sources, then SUSE probably is NOT for you. However, no matter what you do you choose, if you are wanting this level of "flexibility", then you have to become the maintainer of the system... for only you know all of the parts and versions and the special needs it will require when making updates and fixes. With that said, I run SUSE based DNS/DHCP servers. That's a perfect example of where you probably need to run those packages OUTSIDE of SUSE's maintenance (because you NEED bleeding edge possibly). So... I have accepted the responsibility for the maintenance of those packages where installed realizing that those machines are now OUTSIDE of SUSE support. SUSE was attempting to create a lasting managed platform. If that's not possible then there really is no need for companies like SUSE and Red Hat. |
| tuxtom Aug 12, 2005 12:55 AM EDT |
cjcox: In your own words, "there really is no need for companies like SUSE and Red Hat." It all leads to Microsoft, eventually. Think. Think. Think. |
| Abe Aug 12, 2005 5:29 AM EDT |
cjcox: You are blowing things out of proportion and jumping into unrelated areas. My point is, Suse distro has few drawbacks in the areas of multimedia and application installation/updates that need to be addressed. I think this new concept of OpenSuse will resolve them and may be sooner than we can come to an agreement in this thread. |
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