A bit jumbled
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| AnotherDamnUser Apr 13, 2006 3:28 PM EDT |
There are so many layers of facts (and fiction) here that it's almost hard to respond. For example the whole paragraph about the EU mixed together completely separate issues. The OpenDocument format and current EU fines have nothing to do with each other. There are various other poorly reduced issues which makes the word "fact" rather ironic. Feels almost like how the Republican party likes to keep everything simple and iconic because they know people have a hard time getting behind the gray areas of a subject, that most people prefer a simple "Good vs. Evil" approach to the world. Microsoft is a huge corporation, as nice as it would be you can't lump it all together. Some units are very much for creating open relations while others are looking at just the bottom line in a classic corporate business aggressive stance. Some have to worry about selling PC's without an OS and having the buyer *not* install Linux but instead install a pirated version of Windows. Others inside hate IE CSS hacks just as much as everyone else. I'd love to think Linux was this happy, unified group of people but anytime I ask "which distro should I run?" I get so many answers that seven versions of Vista starts looking like simple pickings. Put 5 Linux guys in a room and really the only thing they will agree on is that they all hate Microsoft. The whole point being that Microsoft is not going to be a phoenix, it will not burn and rise anew from the ashes. Instead it will change virally and if something like Port 25 can get enough positive press, feedback and use it will effect other aspects of the system, "infect" them if you will. Ignore it and Microsoft will decide communication is a waste and find some other tactic in which you have even less input and control. Microsoft is too large to be any type of terrorist. They are a super power and ignoring the avenues they do provide will hurt you way more than it will ever affect them. If you really want to make a political analogy Microsoft is a Bush-controlled-America, with it's "I know best" attitude and "I don't care what the UN says, I'll bomb them anyway". |
| dcparris Apr 13, 2006 3:43 PM EDT |
Interesting. There is no fictional material at all in the article, unless you consider news reports from multiple sources all saying the same thing fiction. You're correct that the EU paragraph hits two different subjects. In retrospect I should have separated those two. I kind of like your superpower attitude comparison - it's a good one. I can also see how it will take a long time to change. But that change needs to begin with the leadership - not the Linux Lab. |
| AnotherDamnUser Apr 13, 2006 4:34 PM EDT |
The process of taking two unrelated facts and weaving them together, intentional or otherwise, as if to appear that they are related I considered a fiction. A bit like a historical fiction that weaves together historical fact to create a dramatic fiction. I agree that the change needs to happen with the Microsoft leadership but change rarely happens without a catalyst. Port 25 could be that catalyst and Linux Lab could help light the fuse. Refusing to even show up is a bit like not voting in my book. Perhaps another analogy you may appreciate is that of spreading faith. I know certain faiths have missionaries that go into jungles and "heathen reaches" and they encounter huge resistance and personal danger (such as Mormon's in the Bronx) yet in many cases they did win over the population by integrating themselves into the culture and slowly making a change from within. I'm not aware of *any* cultures that converted to a new faith because someone said they weren't going to talk about their ideas until the tribal chief apologized for shrinking heads and started the process of trust. In fact I believe many missionaries were killed but they kept going back, that whole love thy enemy bit helps, and finally their message got through. If people truly do want Microsoft to stop shrinking heads, instead of just wanting to crush them, then they need to take every chance to preach their open standards, open source message and it's people from Linux Labs and other places that need to be the missionaries. *We'll ignore the fact that many people actually consider past missionaries to be "cultural terrorists" that destroyed entire belief systems because that just futzs up the analogy. |
| NoDough Apr 13, 2006 4:35 PM EDT |
Quoting:...Microsoft...will change virally... Speaking of irony... :-) |
| jdixon Apr 13, 2006 4:44 PM EDT |
> anytime I ask "which distro should I run?" I get so many answers... The correct answer to "which distro should I run?" is "Whichever one you want." Since that answer does you almost no good, and people realize this, they assume that you're actually asking the the question "Which distro do you think would be the best for me?" Since that is largely a matter of personal opinion, you'll get different answers from different people. |
| jdixon Apr 13, 2006 5:20 PM EDT |
Large chunks concerning Microsoft not being a monolithic entity, which ignores the fact that their management team largely is a monolithic entity, snipped. > Put 5 Linux guys in a room and really the only thing they will agree on is that they all hate Microsoft. Most people here do not hate Microsoft. We dislike the fact that Microsft's actions deny us freedom of choice. Since their business actions are (by both experience and court finding) unethical, we do not trust them. When they attack our preferred operating system, we defend it against their attacks. None of this translates as hate. > The whole point being that Microsoft is not going to be a phoenix, it will not burn and rise anew from the ashes. Instead it will change virally... I consider this extremely unlikely. In my opinion, it will require a massive change in leadership for there to be any real change at Microsoft. This will only happen either with time, as the current leadership ages, or as the result of a shareholder revolt. In either case, the change will be much more like a phoenix rising from the ashes than a viral infection. > Microsoft is too large to be any type of terrorist. Do you really think Microsoft is larger than Hamas or Hezbollah? It's remotely possible, but somehow I doubt it. > They are a super power and ignoring the avenues they do provide will hurt you way more than it will ever affect them. The only way Microsoft could "hurt" me is to use their politcal clout to successfully outlaw the use of Linux. I have no real desire to affect them in any way, other than the perfectly normal desire to see a convicted criminal reform. > I agree that the change needs to happen with the Microsoft leadership but change rarely happens without a catalyst. Port 25 could be that catalyst and Linux Lab could help light the fuse. See my above comment about change at Microsoft. As long as Gates and Ballmer run Microsoft, no meaningful change will take place. > In fact I believe many missionaries were killed but they kept going back I'm not willing to make sacrifices to convert Microsoft. I doubt many here are. > I'm not aware of *any* cultures that converted to a new faith because someone said they weren't going to talk about their ideas until the tribal chief apologized for shrinking heads and started the process of trust. No, but but there are those which have been converted by being defeated. Japan comes to mind. The changes in Japan at the end of WWII were very similar to a religious fconversion. Note that the emperor had to surrender before the conversion could take place. Any negotiations with Microsoft under the current management are useless, as they cannot be trusted to keep their word; and no real change will take place at Microsoft as long as Gates and Ballmer are in charge. Presuming otherwise is foolish. |
| dcparris Apr 13, 2006 6:06 PM EDT |
My concern is that Microsoft has committed numerous offenses, not only against the FOSS community, but against the American public (even if the masses think that kind of behavior is justifiable). Microsoft has a legal and moral obligation to change its behavior. This isn't about two warring cultures - it's about a single, criminal entity that refuses to change, and threatens, coerces, and politicizes issues in an effort to get their way. In the process, they are stepping on the toes of others, even though they could prosper without doing so. We have been attempting to communicate our message to anyone who will listen - including Microsoft - since the 1980's, but they seem to ignore us. Again, I emphasize the importance of demanding and expecting Microsoft to give us a reason to trust them. They must demonstrate some good faith effort in order for any meaningful communication to occur. The FOSS community can show up at the table all day long, but what have we accomplished if Microsoft continues it's present course of illegal and immoral behavior? It certainly cannot be called a reconciliation. |
| jimf Apr 13, 2006 7:18 PM EDT |
Yeah, trust MS... When pigs fly :P ! Maybe genetic engineering on Vista can make that happen, but, I'm not holding my breath. |
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