interesting how tech news luvvs Dapper, but not users
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick2 Jun 11, 2006 3:03 PM EDT |
Goodness, all the glowing reviews from the professionals are quite at odds with user's experiences. My own trials after upgrading to Dapper have been numerous and annoying. I've already filed four bug reports. I'm keeping it because I want Gutenprint, but I sure hope Canonical gets serious about releasing stuff that works right. Printing is fuxxored, udev causes all kinds of problems and they deleted all the user udev docs, thank you very much. KDE apps have a large number of problems, and no one will say if these are the result of *buntu customizations or are native KDE bugs. etc etc blah blah. I still like *buntu, but come on y'all supposed jernalists, don't sugarcoat the truth. |
| wayne1932 Jun 11, 2006 3:39 PM EDT |
I loaded the new kubuntu on my test machine. It decided that everything is fine at 1280x960. I wanted 1024x768, I could not change it, after the control center allowed me to set 1024x768, it would restart X, and come right back to 1280x960. So scratch the drake, didn't stay around long enough to find if anything else is broke. I've been using Xandros and PCLOS, neither one give me any trouble. |
| jimf Jun 11, 2006 3:42 PM EDT |
It's not only the professional 'jernalists', but apparently the mass of users that are doing this. Ubuntu has become a sacred cow for some and must be defended against the unbeliever. At the same time, we are told how much more trouble free it is than (fill in the blank) Distro. I haven't seen that. Right now, kanotex and pclinuxos are both a lot better. Even Debian itself isn't all that hard. When it was perceived that there was the need for bug fixes in Ubuntu, some ubuntuite was trying to tie that to Debian's having 'polluted' the Ubuntu pool, never mind that Ubuntu was pulling apps from everywhere but stable Debian. I still haven't figured out the logic there. I remember one article that asked if Ubuntu was a fad... Perhaps the correct question is 'has it become a cult?'. |
| jimf Jun 11, 2006 3:54 PM EDT |
wayne1932, I need to get 1600x1200 as a resolution. I would have settled for just a sample conf file. After trying with kanotex, pclos, kbuntu, and even mepis, the Debian installer was the only one that got it right with xorg 7... Go figure. |
| grouch Jun 11, 2006 4:25 PM EDT |
jimf: >"Even Debian itself isn't all that hard." Blasphemer! May all your offspring develop uncurled tails! Debian is perfect and unblemished. Except the installer has a slight tendency to cause nervous breakdowns in newbies. And whoever does the rxvt package seems determined to have it clear all traces of a man page after reading. Oh, ok, yeah, it's determined to install a graphical login by default so you have to apt-get remove kdm, gdm and xdm to get rid of it. And if you don't choose KDE or GNOME you end up with the most gawdawful, bare-bones wm and xterm imaginable. But... once you clean up the minor details and make it your nest, it's PERFECT forever after. |
| helios Jun 11, 2006 4:33 PM EDT |
It is my understanding that there is a large group of Ubuntu users forming a "family house" somewhere just outside of Waco Texas. I understand the present structure has some fire damage but the land was cheap enough...*buntu users are flocking there from all over the planet to sit at the feet of Mr. Shuttleworth and listen to his preaching. I hope the best for them...really I do. Just don't tell Devnet about it...he will storm the gates immediately. helios |
| helios Jun 11, 2006 4:35 PM EDT |
...he will storm the gates immediately...... I failed to mention the fact that I will help him. Anyone have any old ATF vests lying around? |
| jimf Jun 11, 2006 4:44 PM EDT |
> But... once you clean up the minor details and make it your nest, it's PERFECT forever after. I never said differently. What I was pointing out is that even the installer is getting better. And, as you know, my desktop gives away nothing to the 'other brands' :D |
| richo123 Jun 12, 2006 4:10 AM EDT |
Looks like Ubuntu is going through the typical celebrity cycle: Huge initial infatuation (and hype) followed by overdone disappointment when it turns out to be just a good distro. I have Dapper installed on two machines and see little wrong but I wouldn't say that the label LTS is justified. I was a bug reporter (maybe 10 bugs reported) for this distro and noticed a number of things about the development process: 1) A lot of (30-50%?) the bugs were kernel issues mainly broken drivers. 2) There was only one kernel developer (Ben Collins) and he seemed quite overloaded by the bugs to me. 3) A new hardware detection system (udev only) was introduced and hotplug scrapped during the release. A lot of aggro on the bugzilla seems connected to this. 4) Canonical I think have noticed these issues and employed a QA person (Simon Law) so maybe things will improve. I think however that another kernel developer would help a lot. There have been a lot of QA issues there recently according to Andrew Morton. Settling in well at the new Waco compound! |
| SFN Jun 12, 2006 4:22 AM EDT |
I haven't had a problem with Dapper. However, I didn't do a fresh install. I simply upgraded from Breezy. Does anyone know if anybody has done a comparison of the two methods? |
| r_a_trip Jun 12, 2006 8:01 AM EDT |
Does anyone know if anybody has done a comparison of the two methods? Not quit a comparison, but my desktop rig has been going from Hoary to Breezy to Dapper. My Dell C610 laptop has a fresh Dapper install. I have not noticed any weird breakage. Even printing on my HP 980C works like a charm. Then again, my desktop machine has been mangled hardware wise so many times to get it GNU/Linux compatible (yes, I was a Windows freak once), that it doesn't even let the Windows installer run anymore. Maybe my rig is unparticularly GNU/Linux friendly ;) (My Dell laptop hasn't given me much problems either though). I haven't gotten the letter of invitation to group together from Waco yet. How does one get on the list? |
| SFN Jun 12, 2006 8:39 AM EDT |
"it doesn't even let the Windows installer run anymore" Time to post a HOWTO. :-) |
| Libervis Jun 12, 2006 11:00 AM EDT |
I am one of those "jernalists" who wrote one of the zillion Ubuntu Dapper reviews recently (was on digg.com last thursday). ;) My opinion is that your experience with Ubuntu Dapper will largely depend on what kind of user are you and what needs you have. I think dapper is actually pretty good for users who want something easy to install and working with out of the box, easy to extend with new software as well. There are some issues, but to many ordinary desktop home users they wont present so much of a problem I would say. My review pretty much labeled Ubuntu as justifiable leading choice those coming from Windows. In some respects distros like PCLinuxOS or SimplyMEPIS may indeed be better, but Ubuntu has larger support community and the buzz that's pushing it. It is driving many people off windows and Mac OS X. But if you don't like it don't use it. Enough people will. There is no intrinsically right or wrong choice in this case. Right choice for you may be wrong for me or vice versa. I am personally happy with my Arch GNU/Linux. :) Thanks Daniel |
| grouch Jun 12, 2006 11:12 AM EDT |
Wasn't it salparadise who likened Debian to a hippie with a LOT of children? Ubuntu is a precocious teenager, still trying to figure out where it fits in the world and still apt to mangle the fenders a few times with overenthusiasm and overconfidence. You don't kick the teen out of the house for bending a fender or failing to be instantly capable of dealing with all worldly problems. With a bit of nudging and nuturing, I think Ubuntu will get where it wants to go. "LTS" implies a committment to keep working on it. |
| jimf Jun 12, 2006 11:25 AM EDT |
> Ubuntu is a precocious teenager Well, most times they do grow out of it.... Let'as hope that's the case here. |
| tuxchick2 Jun 12, 2006 11:30 AM EDT |
Rampant bugs have little to do with what kind of user you are, though more experienced users will be better equipped to find workarounds. Dapper was released too early and too buggy. It most certainly is NOT a good newbie distro, even if it weren't so buggy. Not a day goes by that I don't have to fix something, and this is three weeks after upgrading. All those glowing reviews are giving it a pass simply out of affection, or perhaps out of very limited testing. This is not good journalism, it's just cheerleading. Good reviews are honest and go beyond personal needs, and equip readers to make informed decisions. It's kind of a dirty trick to say "yes, it's great, go for it!" when it isn't, and all of a suddent their scanners don't work, their network printing is busted, their configs are stomped, and applications disappear. There is no way I can recommend Dapper as ready for prime time, and it sure as heck isn't ready for the business desktop. I'll be testing the server edition this week. I hope it's less "interesting" than the desktop edition. |
| grouch Jun 12, 2006 11:52 AM EDT |
tuxchick2: (Shameless plug alert). You know LXer would feature any such honest review you care to write. |
| Libervis Jun 12, 2006 4:36 PM EDT |
Well, tuxchick2, you may be right. My review was actually more of an overview of my limited experience with it, along with lots of screenshots that make it double as a screenshoted installation guide, than a deep critical review. I fugured enough people did or are doing that already so no point in saying the same old. Well, you can see it for yourself: http://www.nuxified.org/the_ubuntu_dapper_experience I don't consider myself a professional journalist though. I'm just a guy with a few websites trying to create some interesting content for my visitors which would contribute to promoting and advocating Free Software as something positive. If I contributed to the buzz about Ubuntu then so be it. I don't consider that a sin nor has that obstructed others ability to write different things about it. From what I saw when I was trying Dapper it was a nice experience and I wrote about that providing some shots, nothing more, nothing less. People liked it and that's it. :) I am not the only one who seems to have had good experiences with it, so whatever rampant bugs there are, they apparently don't affect everyone. Hence it can't be that big a disaster. Thanks Danijel |
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