Mistake
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Jack_ Jul 03, 2006 6:30 AM EDT |
"So Ellison plans to exploit the open-source model. "The most interesting thing about open-source to me is the intellectual property," he says. "We can just take Red Hat's intellectual property and make it ours." Ellison is thinking in his corporate mindset, Red Hat, is the name of a distro and as a distro, only owns as "intellectual property" what has been created by Red Hat, the rest is the "intellectual property" of many many others that have made the sources available and they hold the copyritghts to their work, and not Red Hat. Any work Red Hat may have done on other's works, now is a part of those works in the case of GPL licensed works. Noone, can "make it ours", in the case of BSD works, all work done on BSD licensed works, the work as with the GPL, is a part of those BSD works as well, the copyrights are owned by those that created the works, the difference though, others are free to include the works without having to release sources. The ownership question is the problem, Ellison should create his own distro, and respect the freedom that will allow him to do so. Using all the code in the Linux kernel, is a collection of many works, people's time knowledge and skill; Ellison of all people should respect that. |
| richo123 Jul 03, 2006 8:13 AM EDT |
Classic capitalist pirate. Stealing is good as long as you label it "entrepreneurial" . Sounds like the GPL will need to be tested soon in the courts. |
| dinotrac Jul 03, 2006 8:41 AM EDT |
richo - What are you talking about? I saw absolutely nothing in the article to suggest that Ellison will violate the GPL. Freedom applies to capitalist pirates, too. |
| richo123 Jul 03, 2006 9:31 AM EDT |
Dino, From the quote of the OP: "We can just take Red Hat's intellectual property and MAKE IT OURS" I guess if you interpret GPL as meaning anyone can "make it ours" then fine but somehow it reads differently to me in the context of Ellison. And I agree freedom does apply to "capitalist pirates". Let's wait and see what he does and see whether he reciprocates to us. |
| dinotrac Jul 03, 2006 9:47 AM EDT |
richo -- Admittedly not a warm and fuzzy choice of language. I agree that the "MAKE IT OURS" could include some activities that would violate the GPL. It can also be applied to a lot that don't. Oracle has been dipping its toes into the free software world for a while. To date, they've has played by the rules, so far as anybody knows. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt for now, though I trust Ellison about as far as I can throw his mansion, Japanese meditation garden and all. |
| sbergman27 Jul 03, 2006 9:48 AM EDT |
It looks to me like what he meant was that RedHat has no special advantage when providing support to RHEL users. The code is there for any company to study. (And we just might start taking your support business away, RedHat.) It's silly posturing. And (IMO) RedHat does have an edge when it comes to supporting their own product. But it is the interpretation that makes the most sense to me. |
| dcparris Jul 03, 2006 12:55 PM EDT |
That really does sound like Ellison knows less of what he's talking about than he realizes. It's sad that the CEO of a major tech company can't demonstrate a reasonable understanding of basic copyright stuff. |
| Libervis Jul 03, 2006 3:14 PM EDT |
I think this article has some elements of FUD in it, although possibly not intentional. This is followed by the whole talk about Oracle being able to "just take" the RedHat's free stuff and "make it theirs": Quoting:But cracks are beginning to show in the caring and sharing world of open-source. Somehow I don't think that neither Ellison nor the author of the article really understand what is Free Software. If they did then the author wouldn't interpret this as a crack nor would Ellison use the language that he does to describe what he can do with Free Software from RedHat. There is nothing to "just take". There is a whole world of Free Software to "take under certain conditions"! Those conditions are there to ensure that everyone has the freedom to take it and build on it, not just RedHat, not just Oracle or anyone else. Of course, the BSD licensed work is an exception because it indeed allows someone to "just take" it with almost no obligation (short of leaving the credit to the original author in the code). Dinotrac: Quoting:Freedom applies to capitalist pirates, too. I might be nitpicking, but that statement sounds a bit self-contradicting to me. A "capitalist pirate", as any other "pirate" would be the one who steals both unlawfully and unethically, but the way you put it here you seem to imply that the GPL allows stealing both lawfully and ethically, which then isn't stealing at all. I'd just say that freedom applies to capitalists too, which is certainly true because freedom isn't necessarily anti-capitalist. :) Thanks |
| dinotrac Jul 03, 2006 9:13 PM EDT |
>I might be nitpicking You might indeed, or you might be overly defensive. > A "capitalist pirate", as any other "pirate" would be the one or, I might simply be poking a little fun at something I consider to be a reflexive conjunction of terms. > who steals both unlawfully and unethically, but the way you put it here you seem to imply that the GPL allows stealing both lawfully and ethically Absolutely not. The GPL has no power to permit stealing. That is a matter for the state. However, even a pirate who steals, pillages, and has his way with the ladies is entitled use software under the terms of the GPL. So long, that is, as he keeps his misdeeds to stealing, pillaging, and having his way rather than violating software licenses. |
| richo123 Jul 04, 2006 4:54 AM EDT |
Dino, Just for fun here are some more "reflexive conjunctions": Pinko Commie Cut and run wimp fellow traveller Happy 4th of July! |
| dinotrac Jul 04, 2006 5:22 AM EDT |
richo - Sorry. Not the same. Pinko Commie - Do people even put those together? A pinko, I should think would be more like a socialist, or somebody who leans in a communist direction without calling themselves a communist. In that context, pinko makes perfect sense, given the strong association of communism with the color red. Cut and run wimp... Seriously? Isn't cut and run completely consistent with wimp? Might even border on being the definition of one. Fellow traveler - Sounds kind of nice to me. Wouldn't we all like to have fellow travelers on life's journey's? But, of course, we all know that isn't how the term gets applied. |
| richo123 Jul 04, 2006 5:25 AM EDT |
Dino, Your biases are showing ;-) |
| dinotrac Jul 04, 2006 5:31 AM EDT |
richo - I have never denied my biases!! An honest person never does. BTW - Happy 4th of July to you, too. Don't recall where you're from, but, if not from the US, happy 4th of July, anyway, for the spirit of freedom, optimism, and the general respect for human dignity that the Declaration of Independence embodied. |
| richo123 Jul 04, 2006 5:55 AM EDT |
I'm an Australian. We never cut the apron strings from Mother England but I am an Australian republican so thanks for the sentiment. |
| Libervis Jul 04, 2006 8:19 AM EDT |
Fair enough Dino. Happy 4th July to everyone. I hope that freedom in USA still has a future. |
| helios Jul 04, 2006 4:08 PM EDT |
If at least 3 particular members of the Supreme court assume room temp. in the near future, we should be ok. |
| tuxchick2 Jul 04, 2006 5:38 PM EDT |
Larry Ellison has always been grandiose. Remember who this posturing is for- it's to dazzle the PHBs, not the smart kids. |
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