Let's think for ourselves :)
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Libervis Aug 27, 2006 8:16 AM EDT |
Here I am, the one who tends to hardly oppose mixing of proprietary and free. I want to see what all of you think of ESR's arguments. I want to see them addressed. Let's weigh things as they are. Let's indeed do "realpolitik". Is it really true that the best, even only succesful strategy for spreading the freedom granting software, open standards and free file formats is to temporarily interoperate with currently popular proprietary and DRM-infected appliances and applications? Is it really true what ESR says that otherwise these would be mere "curiosities" and that we will fail? I mean, if it is really so then sure, maybe we should be even more pragmatic and go all Linspire/Freespire. However, what if it isn't true? What if accepting proprietary software to the free realm will end up paying a price too high for gain too low. It is not only GNU/Linux that we are trying to spread. It is freedom of computer users. We can sure spread GNU/Linux and fail to spread freedom. If proprietary infection reaches critical mass within the free realm, the free realm ceases to be truly free. So shall we compromise or not? The Free World is at stake (because our world increasingly depends on software and digital technology). |
| mbaehrlxer Aug 27, 2006 9:26 AM EDT |
my thought was: so what if linux does not capture the desktop? linux usage is not going to decline because of it. i'd rather have linux uptake stagnate than to many people using it without being able to enjoy the freedom that we get from it. as soon as the lack of freedom on other platforms becomes a real problem, those people will turn to linux anyways, and then linux is in a much stronger position to defend that freedom than it would be if it supported non-free products. greetings, eMBee. |
| Libervis Aug 27, 2006 10:17 AM EDT |
Good point eMBee! |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 27, 2006 11:04 AM EDT |
It's about demand and supply. Up to now, the demand for purely "Libre" systems has been a niche demand. The vast majority of people don't try to run proprietary codecs, proprietary formats, etc, on Libre systems. That is changing. More and more people are realizing the benefits of staying Libre, and their demands are becoming noticeable. Providers are beginning to realize this. OggVorbis and other Libre codecs, Linux-running PDAs like the Zaurus, soon maybe ATI or Nvidia actually open drivers, there is a trend toward Libre that I intend to support as best I can. While I like ESR's argument that Libre will win eventually simply because it works better, it's much like arguing that liberty and an-archy will eventually win simply because it's more efficient than having a bloated government sucking the life blood out of people. I'll keep the GPL, thanks. :^) |
| jimf Aug 27, 2006 12:56 PM EDT |
Eric Raymond has me really confused, and more than a little dismayed. He is touted as being one of the early boosters of Linux, and at that point he contributed a lot to Linux, but, lately he seems all to eager to sell Ipods and proprietary drivers.. Fot the kids? LOL, give me a break! I'm beginning to wonder if he's getting a paycheck on the side. |
| tuxchick2 Aug 27, 2006 1:25 PM EDT |
How does using closed, proprietary stuff lead to migrating to Free Software? It's nuts. But then, ESR has long advocated diluting Free Software with wimpy "open source" licenses. |
| jimf Aug 27, 2006 1:43 PM EDT |
tuxchick, It's all explained in his new book, 'selling drugs in the bazaar'... Or was that 'selling drugs is bazaar'? Oh well... |
| swbrown Aug 27, 2006 3:25 PM EDT |
The successes we've made have always been due to the Free Software philosophy. Compromises get compromised. |
| jsusanka Aug 27, 2006 7:07 PM EDT |
agree with eMBee - linux will always be here - it has never been about having market share - it is about giving people the ability to do what they want with their computers. period - when people get tired of hearing about cases like the sony fiasco and their cd drm crap we will still be here. I will always want to see the source for my computers especially mission critical. with sarbannes-oxley and other laws that is the only way corporations can do legitimate audits. you know viewing videos and listening to music on my computer are just not the priorities of all the people. and if drm is part of the picture then they should not be listening to it anyway. when I talk to people about linux the first 10 - 20 minutes of the conversation is about drm and what it does to the public - I don't even mention linux. most of the people seem pretty interested when I tell them about drm because the usually have no idea what it is or that they use it until they try to copy their ipod song on other devices. after I do that linux becomes a pretty easy sell because it has all the apps that 95% of the people use. ipods and itunes will go away eventually - they are fads for the get rich quick yuppies like steve jobs. I don't buy single songs because the cd's/albums are what the artists that I listen to would like me to do and I respect that. anyway my two cents worth - take it for what it is worth. linux will be here long after itunes and ipods are memories. |
| dinotrac Aug 28, 2006 6:37 AM EDT |
tc2 - I can't speak for the general case, but I know of one WinXP notebook that would be a Linux notebook if a certain real estate application were available to run under Linux, free or otherwise. |
| jimf Aug 28, 2006 6:51 AM EDT |
> if a certain real estate application were available to run under Linux, free or otherwise. Yes, the Real Estate industry is riddled with mandatory and very proprietary MS software. MS has a real monopoly there. |
| dinotrac Aug 28, 2006 8:15 AM EDT |
jimf - Yes, though I don't think it's by design. More a matter of relatively small software providers who know what realtors, Mortgage lenders, etc are going to have on their computers. My wife is certainly the exception as an other-than-work Linux user. |
| jimf Aug 28, 2006 8:35 AM EDT |
> I don't think it's by design Well, I'm not sure I agree with that one, but regardless, the point is that there are no alternatives and the market is locked. That is far from the only market that does that. One can point to the small and mid size business Engineering market which is totally locked into the infamous and bloated AutoCad, or, the Adobe/Mac lock on the printing/publishing market... All just as proprietary, and, all just as monopolistic. |
| dinotrac Aug 28, 2006 9:24 AM EDT |
jimf - yes |
| number6x Aug 28, 2006 9:34 AM EDT |
In a decade long long ago, a computer company called Apple used to have more than 90% market share of sales in the 'micro computer' market place. Now they have less than 5% market share. The funny thing about this is that they actually sell more computers per year now than they did back in 1979! The market grew faster than they did. They also sell ipods and music downloads now too. Market share is not everything. Linux use is growing. that is what is really important. |
| dinotrac Aug 28, 2006 9:52 AM EDT |
>Market share is not everything. Linux use is growing. that is what is really important. I just wish I could be part of helping it to grow faster. It really irks me that we have an XP computer in the house. |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 28, 2006 10:14 AM EDT |
Dino, does the maker of that software know you would like a Linux version? I don't mean being pissy about it, just to mention to them that, while you really like their product, you find that Windows is buggy and crashes, and you would like to use their product on a more stable platform. Just a thought. |
| jimf Aug 28, 2006 10:28 AM EDT |
> just to mention to them Oh yeah, I did that one... Followed by peals of laughter.... I repeat, these guys have a lock on the market sector. Also reference 'in bed with MS'. |
| dinotrac Aug 28, 2006 10:33 AM EDT |
Bob - I have not discussed it with them, in part because I'm not the licensee (my wife's employer is). If the vendor offered a Linux version, I believe her employer would support her in getting...wait, who am I kidding? Excuse me. I need to go lie down. |
| jimf Aug 28, 2006 10:45 AM EDT |
> I need to go lie down Check the bed is empty first :D |
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