kross and the end user
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Alcibiades Dec 17, 2006 10:42 PM EDT |
I keep hoping against hope that there will one day be a usable end user scripting tool for one of the open source database packages. It doesn't have to be totally simple. It would be fine to have something that would let me do in (say) a week or two what I can do in Filemaker in an afternoon. But just look at the configuration guides alone on this for kexi. I don't think I can even get the thing configured in a week, and then writing serious scripts might take months, even years. You have to become reasonably proficient in Python or Ruby. Its not what we want to spend our life doing. I'm as committed as anyone to open source, but finally, its becoming a question of Filemaker on Windows and get your stuff done, or FOSS and do without. The Filemaker upgrade offer from v6 to Advanced expires on the 20th. The problem is, its not just Filemaker. The thing will only run on Windows - or on Mac, which is even worse, because it would involve buying all new hardware to run OSX. And not just on any old Windows - it has to be XP or latest SP 2K. And then, you can only compile your standalones on the platform you are developing on... And not for Linux.... OpenOffice Base is a joke - and OO Macros, well, it would be easier to learn Mandarin. That's another thing of course. Run MS Office, and macros are suddenly manageable. I'm sure scripting kexi in Python is wonderful, if you're a developer. But if the kexi people are trying to compete with Filemaker for sophisticated end users, as their material says, they are on the wrong planet! Just get hold of a sophisticated end user, give him a copy of FM, a copy of kexi, and ask him to perform the same fairly simple task on each one. And make careful notes. You'll see. |
| swbrown Dec 17, 2006 10:57 PM EDT |
Not being familiar with Filemaker/Access, could you give an example of a fairly simple task on them that would be difficult with the alternatives? |
| Alcibiades Dec 18, 2006 8:32 AM EDT |
Filemaker - I don't know Access. Compare to Kexi. Creating tables is probably about equally easy. Now you want to do layouts (FM term) or forms for the end user. And you want navigation buttons taking them forwards and backwards, one record at a time. It means placing a button and scripting it in the traditional way "on mouseUp....." Terribly simple stuff. How do you do this in Kexi? A friend of mine has done auto complete on a 50K large database of plant genus and species. You start keying into a field, a huge list of possibilities appears, and the number of alternatives shrinks as you add letters. I think it took him a few minutes to figure it out. How to do it on Kexi? There must be an element of familiarity, but I've looked at Base, Kexi, Rekall, Knoda, and whenever you get to configuring the thing like an application, where to begin? Those childishly simple point and click scripting tools you have in FM, where are they? Of course, no real developer wants to touch this stuff, but the rest of us have to somehow give our people the ability to manage their data, and not have to learn a full fledged programming language to do it. This is who FM is targetting, and winning. Believe me, were there any other way I wouldn't touch FM with a bargepole. But I cannot find one. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 9:07 AM EDT |
Alcibiades, I know Access well, and used it extensively in the past. Knoda is the closest to Access in form/function, far better than kexi or the others, but lacks many of the preconfigured VB pieces that made Access easy to configure and use. I think that sooner or later these will appear. Considering that two years ago, none of the Linux database front ends even existed, it's only a matter of time. Unfortunately, for the moment we are stuck programming our own. I'm currently looking at gambas (a Linux vb replacement). Gambas may eventually have the ability to easily do what you're looking for. It certainly looks promising. I'll give a report back in the near future. |
| Abe Dec 18, 2006 10:28 AM EDT |
Considering the ease and user friendliness of Apache, MySQL, PHP, JS, AJAX, etc... (xampp.org), I don't know why any one would want to use Outrageous Access. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 10:59 AM EDT |
> ease and user friendliness Apparently we have different ideas of what is user friendly. > Apache, MySQL, PHP, JS, AJAX With the exception of MYSQL, I use noene of the above. > I don't know why any one would want to use Outrageous Access. Have you ever tried it? |
| Abe Dec 18, 2006 12:44 PM EDT |
Quoting:Have you ever tried it?I have used it quite a bit for many small DB apps. but never liked it. |
| swbrown Dec 18, 2006 2:19 PM EDT |
What I don't understand is why not do forms with traditional web technologies? You can reuse the form design tool you use for other web projects, thereby reducing the number of tools you need to learn to get things done. Ditto for DB connectivity. End users need only a web browser. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 2:28 PM EDT |
swbrown, If you work with webs, that makes sense. Not every user does or wants to. |
| swbrown Dec 18, 2006 2:34 PM EDT |
But then why learn a separate non-web tool for each job, when you could lean a strong web tool just once? It seems like it'd be a lot less work. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 3:11 PM EDT |
> why learn a separate non-web tool for each job Well, I'm not. I'm using knoda as a database front end, and I don't normally use web tools, so, what's the difference. You're really wanting me to do it 'your way' which 'for me' is a lot more work. And incidentally, the results may not be the same. |
| Alcibiades Dec 18, 2006 10:29 PM EDT |
jimf I'll have a bash at Gambas. I tried Knoda on probably your recommendation here, and as far as it goes its very nice - its just the scripting that's an issue. But, today is the last day for the Filemaker upgrade, and with a heavy heart I'm probably going to end up buying.... |
| dcparris Dec 18, 2006 10:39 PM EDT |
Ouch! We're thinking about you, man! Really, my heart goes out to you. Having to buy shrinkwrapped, non-libre stuff - that just sucks. |
| dinotrac Dec 19, 2006 3:39 AM EDT |
> that just sucks. At least you get to play with the wrapper and the packaging. Maybe set little fires... |
| Alcibiades Dec 19, 2006 5:24 AM EDT |
I couldn't bring myself to do it. Just have to learn Python and Sqlite. What a prospect! |
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