sooo.... Ubuntu is good for something
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick Jul 24, 2007 9:23 AM EDT |
I have railed a bit here and there on 'shut up about Ubuntu already, sheesh!'. But it is having some positive effects with vendors. Take a look at Newegg.com, for one example- in the customer reviews issues with Linux support are suddenly a big deal, and mostly because of Ubuntu. Customers are speaking up in droves about what works and what doesn't, and even sharing workarounds. As good as Newegg is, they've always been very Windows-centric and done the 'lalalala' song whenever anyone talked to them about Linux. Now they listen. I doubt if it will happen soon because they depend on their vendors to supply product information, but I bet we see a 'Linux Store' on Newegg someday. |
| NoDough Jul 24, 2007 9:25 AM EDT |
Kewl! |
| jdixon Jul 24, 2007 9:38 AM EDT |
So, do we credit Ubuntu for this or Dell? |
| number6x Jul 24, 2007 9:47 AM EDT |
Credit people using Linux. More vendors are noticing demand. The slow, but sure progress is continuing. |
| tuxchick Jul 24, 2007 10:01 AM EDT |
jdixon, definitely Ubuntu, because it's Ubuntu users buying motherboards, video cards printers, scanners, all that stuff. Before Ubuntu became Teh Kool Linux the Newegg customer reviews had hardly any comments from Linux users. Now they're an excellent resource for finding Linux-supported hardware. |
| azerthoth Jul 24, 2007 12:55 PM EDT |
Actually the best thing I have found for Ubuntu is using the liveCD, changing all the sources and switching several packages (debootstrap, grub, etc) and using the Ubuntu CD to debootstrap install a tailored version of Debian. Ubuntu does for some reason not put all their sources in the source list so you have to change them via synaptic, but hey who's counting *grin*. |
| hkwint Aug 04, 2007 3:59 PM EDT |
Debootstrapping sounds like an ugly hack. Isn't there a 'pre-debootstrapped' Debian install available, kind the way Gentoo and NetBSD are out of the box? I'm asking this since I maybe might switch from Gentoo to Debian some day, but I don't like the pre-installed software Debian installs (out of the box); the thought of not knowing entirely what's on my system scares me (Gentoo-syndrome). Back on topic, I still wonder why there are that much fans of Ubuntu. In my opinion it's not any better than the average Linux distro, like Suse for example. Myself and a friend - he was almost new to Linux - tried to use Ubuntu without too much success, and we both thought it lacked. It made me sad to see the stuff everyone was talking about was so average and brought nothing new (except marketing and money). However, when we tried Sabayon, my friend was so amazed that he threw Windows of his laptop for the first time, and I did an interview with the Sabayon-devs, to find out there aro only only three of them. If three people can make Sabayon without money, then one wonders what Ubuntu does with plenty devs and a lot of money. So, Ubuntu is a bit like Windows: Not very good, but throw money and marketing at it, give it away for free, and people want it and talk about it, though there are technically superior alternatives. Of course, I'm very glad for every Linux compatible hardware-thingy the hardware-bakery makes because of Ubuntu and it prophets, but as can be seen above my mixed Ubuntu-feelings continue. |
| tracyanne Aug 05, 2007 1:41 AM EDT |
hkwint: I agree with you, I've tried Ubuntu and Kubuntu and Xubuntu and really can't see what all the fuss is. It simply doesn't compare, as far as I'm concerned with Mandriva PWP, which I use. On the other hand I know two blokes, who I converted to Linux in the first place, by getting them to try Mandriva, who reckon Ubuntu is the greatest thing since sliced bread. |
| Teron Aug 05, 2007 8:09 AM EDT |
Ubuntu may not be anything special per se, but the community's nice and the distro itself is pretty good, although a tad basic. For me Kubuntu's good. It feels familiar and has the apps I need. Why bother trying to find something else, when it does the job admirably? |
| azerthoth Aug 05, 2007 9:26 AM EDT |
hkwint: actually debootstrap is probaby the best way to control what is on your system. It the 'Debian Way' of using an existing install to install a whole new system. Not for the faint of heart though, not as bad a command line Gentoo install ... but close. |
| hkwint Aug 05, 2007 10:28 AM EDT |
Thanks azerthoth.Quoting:Why bother trying to find something else, when it does the job admirably? Althus said hundreths millions of XP users... |
| jdixon Aug 05, 2007 12:21 PM EDT |
> Why bother trying to find something else, when it does the job admirably? You know, that's pretty much why I still use Slackware. :) |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 05, 2007 4:16 PM EDT |
> Why bother trying to find something else, when it does the job admirably? I started with Debian .93. It was a philosophical decision, I thought the "community" rather than company or dictator was a good idea. Oh well. There are complaints from the idiots that more than a couple of distributions just wastes effort. No, it is needed variety because no one distribution has any hope of satisfying even a bare majority of individual users. |
| tracyanne Aug 05, 2007 6:03 PM EDT |
Quoting:There are complaints from the idiots that more than a couple of distributions just wastes effort. No, it is needed variety because no one distribution has any hope of satisfying even a bare majority of individual users. It also ensures that innovative ideas get implemented and tested. |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 05, 2007 6:43 PM EDT |
> It also ensures that innovative ideas get implemented and tested. And, unlike the Amiga which was an astounding technology, the GPL means what works can be implemented widely, instead of lost to history. |
| Steven_Rosenber Aug 05, 2007 8:33 PM EDT |
Why Ubuntu? I'd say it's 30 percent technology (thanks to Debian), 20 percent marketing (everything from the name to the Web site to the free ShipIt CDs) and a full 50 percent community. The Ubuntu users post like mad to their forum. For me, community is very important. The system gets much better, much quicker when thousands are engaged in using and writing about it. |
| ColonelPanik Aug 06, 2007 3:20 PM EDT |
The Ubuntu Community is their success. But the topic was about vendors seeing
where the $$$ is coming from. Linux users are few compared
with that/those other OS's but we do spend money.
Nobody can ignore a new market, things are not that good. Now, can you all please tell Netflix that their streaming video does not work with Linux. Sheeze, 9 free hours a month and I cannot use it! |
| helios Aug 06, 2007 6:34 PM EDT |
"Why bother trying to find something else, when it does the job admirably?" First off, I completely agree with the first part of your statement and thank you for making the observation but the quote above needs some discussion. Recently I did a test install of Kubuntu when I was testing distros for the kickoff of HeliOS Solutions. In that that majority of Windows users are massively interested in being able to access their pre-existing Windows files after hard drive install, Kubuntu failed miserably, although in and of itself, it is an acceptable OS. That in itself was a major disappointment because I really wanted to use the Buntu family in our efforts there. Because it failed on 10 out of 10 computers tested again under more professional circumstances here in Austin at a well known national ISP, we had to bypass it for something a bit more new user friendly. And by new user, I'm talking about 68 year old grandfathers who have no inkling of what to do when asked where they want the friggin mbr. Again, the Buntu's are ok as a standalone distro, but it just takes too much work to get the pre-existing partitions to even show up not to mention have them mount or let go of their files when executed. h |
| salparadise Aug 06, 2007 10:00 PM EDT |
Tracyanne. You're the only person I know who not only uses Mandriva but is actually unashamed to say so in public! ;-) |
| tracyanne Aug 07, 2007 4:55 AM EDT |
@sal: :-) I simply haven't found anything that does what I want as easily. |
| jacog Aug 07, 2007 5:36 AM EDT |
Mandriva is not to be scoffed at... it's a lot more "friendly" than most other distributions for most things. I'd go so far as to say that it's a better bet for a Linoob to try than Ubuntu if you hope to convert them. |
| Abe Aug 07, 2007 9:49 AM EDT |
In my opinion, PCLlinuxOS is the best around. Having said that, there are couple things that PCLOS needs to address to make it perfect. Automated updates and not being Debian based. I understand that these two are missing due to lack of resource. Time I am sure, will take care of both. Quoting:I simply haven't found anything that does what I want as easily. Tracyanne: Have you tried PCLinuxOS!! What is it that you see lacking? Just curious. |
| number6x Aug 07, 2007 10:41 AM EDT |
Teron hit the nail on the head on why Ubuntu is popular. The forums. New users feel welcome. They are treated friendly and they get answers. Sometimes it seems to be the blind leading the blind, but they have probably never been treated nice in response to their computer questions before using the Ubuntu forums. It has nothing to do with technical merits, but compared to Windows Ubuntu has many of those as well. I keep trying to like Ubuntu. |
| Abe Aug 07, 2007 11:37 AM EDT |
Quoting:The forums. New users feel welcome. They are treated friendly and they get answers. I personally don't think it is the main reason simply because other distros, not everyone, have good forums and are very helpful and friendly. In my opinion, Ubuntu has other good reasons. Resource, resources resources. Being sponsored by Canonical, a commercial company with good resources, has a lot do with it. Mark Shuttleworth leadership is also a part of this reason. http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/interviews/6405/1/ Using GNOME also has a lot to do with its popularity. Not because it is better or more popular, mind you, not at all. It is because there are many GNOME advocates, companies (US) and technical writers/magazines that advocated Ubuntu/GNOME, simply because it is backed by a commercial company with good reliable support and resources. Magazines and writers love to advocate for commercial companies since that is where their bread and butter comes from. To them, if and when MS falls down, Ubuntu will be around. It is the same reason many used to advocate for Suse, Linspire and Xandros to certain extent. We will see that kind of support and advocacy going towards Red Hat when they release their new Global Desktop. Declaration by Shuttleworth of "Ubuntu for humanity" and to always be free as in beer helped a lot too. Add to that the selection of the name UBUNTU and what is means, Shuttleworth came up with a winner and ever since, have been doing everything else right to increase Ubuntu's popularity. Mandriva did the same thing initially but had to survive a bankruptcy. Consequently had to give most of their attention to their Club and didn't pay enough attention to the free as in beer part like Ubuntu is doing. In terms of technical strength, ease of use, and user friendliness, I don't see K/Ubuntu to be any better than PCLinuxOS, Mandrivva or Mepis, etc. |
| helios Aug 07, 2007 11:55 AM EDT |
Actually, I have nice things to say about Mandriva as far as an operating system goes. A friend of mine asked me about it and I arranged a purchase for her. she likes the whole "club" idea. I personally do not and to be honest, while I realize they are a for-profit business and their business model dictates that they market...The emails and "user alert" popups I got while testing it got a tad bit annoyng. It's been awhile since I've had the Spring distro on any personal machines although I did purchase a subscription for my daughter. It did absolutely make everything as easy as could be for the most part. Then LinDVD or whatever it was in conjunction to the out-of-the-box Nvidia support was a nice added touch. The new Freespire is supposed to match that, but I don't think I could go near anything those people did without feeling the immediate and pressing need to go shower. h |
| tracyanne Aug 07, 2007 1:06 PM EDT |
Quoting:Tracyanne: Have you tried PCLinuxOS!! What is it that you see lacking? Just curious. I've tried PCLOS, I'll have to go back and sit down with it again, so I can remember where I wasn't entirely happy with it. But from memory one thing I didn't like was the root login, rather like what Linspire has, which made me wonder if the same thing that happened to me on Linspire would also happen on PCLOS. Quoting:The new Freespire is supposed to match that,... Freespire and Linspire are very similar, and both are, in my opinion broken. The security model is so bad that after doing an upgrade on Linspire 5.0 i was left with a machine where all 5 users (a family I sold it to) had root access on their user accounts (just like MS Windows), and all I did was use the upgrade option. It took me ages to fix the security. That was the last time I recommended Linspire to anyone. |
| Abe Aug 07, 2007 2:50 PM EDT |
Quoting:But from memory one thing I didn't like was the root login, rather like what Linspire has, which made me wonder if the same thing that happened to me on Linspire would also happen on PCLOS. I should have been more specific, which version of PCLOS was it, 2007? That is the one to try. It is true that PCLOS doesn't have sudo like Ubuntu, it is doesn't have the default root login like Linspire either. PCLOS creates two accounts when installed, a root and user accounts. You have the choice in login. Some people like this set up better than just sudo only. When running the LiveCD, both guest and root passwords are displayed to the user. But that doesn't mean root access is available to all users after it is installed on hard drive. |
| rijelkentaurus Aug 07, 2007 3:58 PM EDT |
Quoting: Some people like this set up better than just sudo only. I hate sudo. I love PCLOS. Quoting: But from memory one thing I didn't like was the root login, rather like what Linspire has Not following you on that one. The main user is not "root" unless you choose it, and the root login ("admin" in kcontrol) can be turned off as a selection so people don't get tempted. It's nothing at all like Linspire, which is like Ubuntu without the password (as I recall). I always figure it's better for their to be two passwords to get to admin privileges rather than just one like Ubuntu or OS X. If you're smart, you'll make both aggravatingly difficult to guess. Still, they both have their advantages. |
| hkwint Aug 07, 2007 5:04 PM EDT |
Hey Abe, can you share with us what's wrong with being Debian based? I just was contemplating how life would be if I switched to something Debian based (using Gentoo right now, and when it comes to Linux always have, so you can understand life would be different...) I hope/think it's on topic (Ubuntu is at least good for something) as well. |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 07, 2007 5:12 PM EDT |
I for one cannot help you. I've been using using Debian for so long that every other Linux distribution just feels _wrong_. I've found the Ubuntu community very helpful, since most of what they package as .deb will work in a vanilla Debian too. |
| tracyanne Aug 07, 2007 5:20 PM EDT |
Quoting:I should have been more specific, which version of PCLOS was it, 2007? That is the one to try. Yeah I've got 2007 Final. Got it as soon as it was available, I'll probably have to burn a new CD though, as i think I threw out the one I used for testing.. Quoting:It is true that PCLOS doesn't have sudo like Ubuntu, it is doesn't have the default root login like Linspire either. Nor does linspire. Quoting:PCLOS creates two accounts when installed, a root and user accounts. You have the choice in login. Yes that's exactly what Linspire/Freespire does. I don't think you should have that option..... and on the Linspire machine, when I upgraded, for some reason all the users were given root privilages. Quoting:Some people like this set up better than just sudo only. It's only marginally better than the Ubuntu hidden root user and default sudo setup. At least you have the choice and ability to switch to root using su in a console, and the choice of compromising security by logging in as root, but I do not believe this sort of power should be given to noobs or recent ex windows users, as one of the things that keeps Linux virus free is the proper seperation of root and user, and this is one thing that Mandriva strictly enforces. |
| rijelkentaurus Aug 07, 2007 5:43 PM EDT |
Quoting: but I do not believe this sort of power should be given to noobs or recent ex windows users That sounds a little authoritarian, as though you wish the Linux world to emulate Windows: "We" will decide what is best for "you". I really don't believe you meant it that way, but that's how it came across. As far as not having the option, it's there in kcontrol (and can be controlled elsewhere, not sure where) if you're setting it up for a noob or for people who shouldn't have the option (in a work or school environment, or for your children). But Mr. Stupid Rock Eating Ex-Windows User should have the option on his own box because...well, because it's his box. The last time I tested Freespire, it didn't have two logons, it just had the default sudo account, and it didn't ask for a password to perform sudo. Maybe they changed that, but it seemed supremely stupid to me. |
| tracyanne Aug 07, 2007 5:58 PM EDT |
Quoting:That sounds a little authoritarian, as though you wish the Linux world to emulate Windows: "We" will decide what is best for "you". I really don't believe you meant it that way, but that's how it came across. I think that this is something the user should be able to decide to implement, but it shouldn't be done by default, and there should be all sorts of warnings associated with anything that reduces security. In point of fact you can login as root, on a Mandriva box, it's just not obvious that you can, and there are warnings about potential security risks when you attempt to do so, and the screen displays in blood red.. On both Linspire and Freespire and freespire, when you install, you get the root user by default. you can then set up non root users. Of course Linspire don't tell you this, and you could simply continue to run as root, and is obviously a huge security risk, this is obviously not quite the same as PCLOS, which just makes it obvious that there is a user called root that you can login as. The problem I had with Linspire, and how I discovered how broken it is, is when I was forced to do an upgrade, at the end of the process the non root users all had root access by default. |
| Abe Aug 07, 2007 6:05 PM EDT |
Quoting:Hey Abe, can you share with us what's wrong with being Debian based? hkwint, I wasn't saying there is something wrong with being Debian based; I was saying it is an issue for PCLinuxOS since it is NOT based on Debian and to address the issue by making it Debian based just like K/Ubuntu and many others are. Please don't get every Debianista come after me. :) |
| rijelkentaurus Aug 07, 2007 6:47 PM EDT |
Quoting: I was saying it is an issue for PCLinuxOS since it is NOT based on Debian and to address the issue by making it Debian based just like K/Ubuntu and many others are. While I think Debian is a fantastic distro, and I highly recommend it to people, there are those of us who prefer distros in the style of Red Hat (Red Hat --> Mandrake --> PCLOS). I wouldn't change a thing nor would I recommend that to Texstar. There are enough Debian-based distros (and Debian itself, of course). Just my O, nothing more. :) Quoting: On both Linspire and Freespire and freespire, when you install, you get the root user by default. I remember Linspire 4 being like that, I don't remember Freespire being that way. However, I will defer to your experience since I remember little about Lin/Freespire other than it being garbage that I never wanted to install again. Yuck. Oy. Ewwwwwwwww. Just garbage. |
| tuxchick Aug 07, 2007 7:07 PM EDT |
Linspire Five Oh defaulted to root when I tested it, which was when it was first released. Not only that, it rivaled winduhs in bombarding you with torrents of crapware, and then it makes you think you have all these neat applications when you don't- just commercials to buy them through Click n Run. It was buggy as heck and slow. Pretty neat trick to turn Debian into a steaming pile. |
| tracyanne Aug 07, 2007 9:45 PM EDT |
Quoting:It was buggy as heck and slow. Pretty neat trick to turn Debian into a steaming pile. Yes it's quite broken. |
| tracyanne Aug 18, 2007 12:50 AM EDT |
Someone asked me what I don't like about Ubuntu or was it PCLOS. I'me just testing Ubuntu 0704 at the moment , and the first thing that strikes me is how hard it is to get Encrypted movies to play. I insert the movie, Totem starts and informs me it can't find the required plug ins (to play my LOTR movie), then it asks me if I want to install the restricted codecs, so I say yes, it goes away does something than informs me that it can't play my movie as the necessary plug ins are missing. So I go to the Software sources manager and make sure that the "Software restricted by Copyright or legal issues " is selected and update. Still no joy installing the needed plug ins for Totem. So I open the Package manager and search for libDVDCSS and I get libDVDRead3, which according to the Package Manager is installed, and the description informs me that libDVD READ will use libDVDCSS if found. But there are no references to libDVDCSS being available or installed. So how in the hell some newbie is going to be able to get their encrypted movies to play is beyond me. OK so I went to the Ubuntu Support Site, and finally found what to enter into the console to get this working. If you don't eject the DVD before you close Totem you are stuffed, unless you know to type eject into a console. OK did the copy paste of the required commands into the console, and updated the packages list with the Media codes repository. Still no sign of libDVDCSS, so trying again, getting the media repository, maybe I didn't do something right. OK this time the repositories seem to be there and I've found libDVDCSS. Now it's working. I miss the functionality that's available on the KDE windows. I have an external monitor attatched to the laptop, but there seems to be no way to set the resolution of the external monitor, even though this laptop is capable of doing this when I run Mandriva and KDE on it. It looks like I might have to install 915Resolution. According to the Ubuntu documentation that requires the command line. On Mandriva it's a GUI thing, in fact you get prompted to install it when you go in to "Set Up Graphicl Server" in the Mandriv Control Centre. There seems to be a lot of things on Ubuntu that require the command line that I can do via a GUI on Mandriva. At least you can still copy paste the commands. It seems 915Resolution doesn't recognise my Video card, which is interesting, A quick check fro 'hardwre information" reveals that my video card isn't listed. Which is strange because according the Mandriva, was previously installed on this laptop, it's an i800 series card, which is supported by 915Resolution. So I can't change the resolution to suit my externl monitor a wide screen 19" TFT monitor. Once again Ubuntu lets me down. |
| ColonelPanik Aug 18, 2007 3:19 PM EDT |
Just upgraded from Feisty to Gutsy (7.04 > 7.10) It is a great improvement, huge. Two lappys one an AMD64 and one desktop AMD64 sudo gedit /ect/apt/sources.list (change all feisty to gutsy, just use the replace all feature) sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get dist-upgrade And this isn't the final release so it is just a w00t. Can't wait until October. Keep the humor in Linux |
| Abe Aug 18, 2007 5:36 PM EDT |
Quoting:Someone asked me what I don't like about Ubuntu or was it PCLOS.Tracyanne, That was I and it was PCLOS not Ubuntu. I don't use Ubuntu but I use Kubuntu on one of my systems. I am not a GNOME fan. PCLOS is much more mature than Ubuntu, more appealing and more user friendly and I always said PCLinuxOS is the best so far. In terms of setting resolution, in PCLOS you can right click on the desktop and select "Configure Desktop" to do the change. On the other hand, when you reboot it will revert to what it was set up in KDE which you can do to keep it permanent. I am not sure about playing DVD because I haven't really had the need for that. What I know is, PCLOS doesn't have a tool (automatix) like K/Buntu to download extra applications. When I have a chance, I will try playing DVD. Try PCLOS and let us know what you think of it. I am sure you will be very happy with it. |
| tracyanne Aug 18, 2007 9:27 PM EDT |
Quoting:In terms of setting resolution, in PCLOS you can right click on the desk Same as Mandriva I've tried PCLOS final already, went back to Mandriva. But I will do a blow by blow,as I just did for Ubuntu, shortly. |
| Teron Aug 19, 2007 2:20 AM EDT |
IMHO, PCLOS's normal look is rather unrefined in comparison to Kubuntu Feisty. I'd say, make it look like Kubuntu (With the PCLOS logo still on the K Menu etc., but change kwin theme, window borders, the rest of the icon sets, and so on), and you'd have a damn fine distro in your hands: Almost everything would work out of the box, and would look good doing so. |
You cannot post until you login.