Time To Retire Gender AND Age Tests
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| zenarcher Sep 09, 2007 3:10 AM EDT |
I completely agree with your point. I would like to go a bit further, however and say that many articles and stories I hear also include "dad" and "grandpa." A lot of the computer literacy stereotyping seems to be age related. I take offense with that. I've encountered equal numbers of "computer illiterate" people in the "under 30" age group as I have in other age groups. For the most part, there are two classes of people. Those who are curious and want to learn and those who are merely happy just clicking an icon and expecting instant gratification. That applies not only to computers, but pretty much to everything else in life. Age is not a criteria, but rather the personal desire to learn. Let's toss out all the age and gender related stereotypes and whether Linux or anything else.....just say that if you're not the type of person who wants to learn and expand your horizons, then use whatever you use and be happy with it. Incidentally, I'd never had any contact with Linux....using strictly MS software from DOS 5.0 upward, until I was 60 years old. Today, I don't have a single computer running anything but Linux and I'm happy with it. But then, I'm one of those people who considers a day without learning something new, a lost day. |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 09, 2007 3:13 AM EDT |
The age test can work, but you have to be at the other end of the scale. "So easy my 5 year old nephew can do it!" |
| zenarcher Sep 09, 2007 3:40 AM EDT |
Very good point! |
| tuxchick Sep 09, 2007 2:45 PM EDT |
metoo. I'm always fascinated by the biases that people reveal without being aware of it. And then try to defend them because it's "politically correct" or infringing their sacred free speech rights or something. I don't see too many "so easy dad or grandpa can do it" references; it's usually grandma who is selected as the archetypal dimwit. I wish my grandmother were still alive to have a little face-to-face conversation with some of these folks. She could break an apple with her bare hands- I don't believe she would have to say a word to make her point. |
| azerthoth Sep 09, 2007 3:38 PM EDT |
hmm I always thought it was the political correctness in everything yahoo's who got spun up over that sort of thing, not in defending it. Remember for those of us who believe political correctness is the misguided idea that one can actually pick up a turd by the clean end, for the most part we just dont care if our turns (turds) of phrase offends someones oh so tender sensibilities. |
| tuxchick Sep 09, 2007 4:21 PM EDT |
well now azerthoth, it sounds like you are saying that disregarding other people's feelings is good thing, and that it's ok to spew whatever insulting or denigrating turns of phrase please you. That doesn't really fit with what you post here, so I'm puzzled. I'm guessing you'll agree that the important part of communication is doing it in a way so that people will listen to you and take you seriously, rather than getting ticked off and resisting what you have to say. I think people who defend this "grandma"-type crap don't understand the difference between their actual message and how it's packaged. I can't think of a single good reason to say something like "so easy a grandma can do it" because it clearly implies that grandmothers are stupid and incapable, and more so than other people. The real message is "so easy an unsophisticated user can do it." So why not just say that, instead of being contemptuous of a particular group? |
| tracyanne Sep 09, 2007 5:19 PM EDT |
So easy, anyone can do, even you....dimwit. That's the real message. |
| azerthoth Sep 09, 2007 5:19 PM EDT |
Sorry to confuse TC, being over PC is one of my buttons :). I prefer instead to think that for the most part I am polite, or try to be. In my mind it is a world of difference from being PC though. I see it as knowing when to keep my fool mouth shut. In my mind tearing apart stereotypes is a good thing as they honestly serve no useful purpose other than to generalize a group of people, and I have yet to find a stereotype other than "All babies poop" that can actually hold up the the light of logic. Face to face, if someone hits me with something incredibly idiotic, such as "Women don't belong in IT", well they just offended me, so the rules of proper social behavior can go right out the window. Thems fightin words. If we were seriously discussing gun control or the affects of religious fundamentalism in American politics you would see a brand new side of me, its not pleasant either. |
| jdixon Sep 09, 2007 6:37 PM EDT |
> If we were seriously discussing gun control or the affects of religious fundamentalism in American politics you would see a brand new side of me, its not pleasant either. Most people's aren't [except for those sage ones of us who are always right on such subjects, of course :) ]. That's why politics and religion (outside of their effects on FOSS) are outside the TOS. Fortunately, most folks here are relatively polite, so we can usually skirt such issues carefully and still keep those in charge from having to step in. It helps that everyone here has been willing to agree to disagree on more than one occasion. |
| tuxchick Sep 09, 2007 7:10 PM EDT |
I don't see it that way, tracyanne. Good user interface design is difficult, and hardly anyone gets it right. I don't see any particular virtue in difficult, poorly-designed interfaces. That just creates an extra hurdle- first figure out the silly interface or poorly-documented command options, then figure out what you can do with the actual program. Not a good way to do things. |
| dinotrac Sep 10, 2007 2:25 AM EDT |
>The real message is "so easy an unsophisticated user can do it." So why not just say that, instead of being contemptuous of a particular group? For somebody who writes as much as you do, I cannot believe that you wrote that. Let's set aside, for a moment, whether any contempt is conveyed. Strictly as a writer, the phrase, "so easy an unsophisticated user can do it" plops like a great big turd. Doesn't register at all. Grandma (or, for that matter, grandpa) registers because we have mental pictures of grandma. You know that's true. The picture isn't an idiot, either. It's just somebody who we don't expect to be tech-savvy. Heck, I'm getting close to grandpa years and I'm not very tech savvy once I get out of the realm of computers. My kids know more about my phone than I do, and I can't work a lot of the big fancy remote controls so much in favor these days. If you want a real idea of why the grandma (or grandpa) picture works so well, think of any time you've told somebody (or heard somebody told) that they don't seem like a grandXX. To even make that statement, one must have some generalized picture of what a grandXX is. That generalize grandXX picture is the real communications tool, not any real grandmas or grandpas. It's the writer's version of randomness in statistics - the thing that allows you to infer generalized information from specific information. "Unsophisticated user" does the same thing, but it sucks. Personally, I've been know to refer to my wife and kids. That, I suppose is both sexist and agist. My wife is a woman and my kids are both girls. So shoot me. |
| jacog Sep 10, 2007 2:33 AM EDT |
Wow, I just installed the new VirtualBox... the interface is so easy, even dinotrac can use it! :) |
| dinotrac Sep 10, 2007 4:04 AM EDT |
>the interface is so easy, even dinotrac can use it! :) Holy crap! Does that mean that chihuahuas are finally able to use computers, too? |
| jdixon Sep 10, 2007 4:27 AM EDT |
> Does that mean that chihuahuas are finally able to use computers, too? Yo quiero Ubuntu! |
| ColonelPanik Sep 10, 2007 5:13 AM EDT |
¡Yo tambien! Su LOLgato tambien. Why won't people just stay in the little boxes we give them? |
| dinotrac Sep 10, 2007 6:26 AM EDT |
>Why won't people just stay in the little boxes we give them? Some of us get a little too wide as we get older. Uh oh -- Did I just make inappropriate references to age and weight? I think I'll just go shoot myself. Wait!! That would be a symptom of mental illness, I think. That's inappropriate, too, isn't it? Man!! er, Thing!! I give up. |
| tuxchick Sep 10, 2007 6:30 AM EDT |
oh dino, you're so far wrong that even a doddering old grandpa can see it. Haw. I slay me. Seriously, it's starting to look like the whole "so easy a (whatever) can do it" is just asking for trouble. And no, telling people to get over it is not a solution. |
| dinotrac Sep 10, 2007 6:43 AM EDT |
>And no, telling people to get over it is not a solution. Well, of course not. Some people never get over anything. Fortunately, I can live with that. |
| Bob_Robertson Sep 10, 2007 10:03 AM EDT |
The reason I hope to convince my Mom to write up her experience as a new Linux user is not because of age at all. I bought her her first Macbook in 1993, then her Windows laptop in 2003 "because all my friends have Windows and this way we can trade software and files", so now I'm really just interested in how her usage and expectations change. As one Old Fart said to an uppity kid, "No, we didn't have them, that's why we invented them!" |
| ColonelPanik Sep 10, 2007 1:25 PM EDT |
"Some of us get a little too wide as we get older."
No, same weight I was when I finished high school. "...even a doddering old grandpa can see it." Now you got it! That's me, but I forgot what I was supposed to see. |
| dinotrac Sep 10, 2007 3:21 PM EDT |
>No, same weight I was when I finished high school. Jealous. I'm nearly twice my high school weight. Sigh. |
| gus3 Sep 10, 2007 10:20 PM EDT |
Quoting:No, same weight I was when I finished high school.I'm not jealous. I was skinny in H.S. The extra padding I have now makes winters much more bearable. |
| dinotrac Sep 11, 2007 2:27 AM EDT |
>The extra padding I have now makes winters much more bearable. That much is true. If only I had a summer place in the Yukon. |
| NoDough Sep 11, 2007 5:54 AM EDT |
I still have the same body I had in high school. I value it so highly that I've added a thick protective layer to prevent damage. :) |
| jacog Sep 11, 2007 5:58 AM EDT |
Heh... that's almost as bad as "I'm in shape... round is a shape, isn't it?" |
| jezuch Sep 11, 2007 4:24 PM EDT |
Round is the perfect shape. Ask any mathematician ;) |
| jacog Sep 11, 2007 11:09 PM EDT |
An architect would argue that a triangle is the perfect shape. |
| dinotrac Sep 12, 2007 3:54 AM EDT |
>An architect would argue that a triangle is the perfect shape. Only a thin one. |
| jdixon Sep 12, 2007 6:11 AM EDT |
Hmm, this discussion seems to be going round and round to no purpose. Is there any point? :) |
| dinotrac Sep 12, 2007 6:56 AM EDT |
>round and round Ouch. |
| Bob_Robertson Sep 13, 2007 11:30 AM EDT |
> Is there any point? Three of them, on the triangle. > Ouch. Careful, those moot points are sharp. |
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