Reasons??
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| azerthoth Dec 16, 2007 8:58 PM EDT |
I guess the question being before we go all boycottnovell tin foil hat would be, what are you babbling about? $1200 laptop that didn't work right ... thats about descriptive enough to be entirely meaningless. What didn't work, what steps were taken, did it not work out of the box or just not as well as it was assumed it would? Did something else happen such as it came with windows and you installed linux, which wouldnt work correctly? Jehosaphat man, WHAT? Without some actual reason, your asking people to stop using newegg, whom I have never had a problem with, for essentially a Bugs Bunny "Duhr, which way did he go?" |
| Steven_Rosenber Dec 16, 2007 9:45 PM EDT |
What does it have to do with Linux, specifically? |
| usacomputertec Dec 16, 2007 9:53 PM EDT |
It was new and didn't work out of the box. It was an ASUS. But that does not matter anyway. The fact is that a person can be oblivious to the return policy and buy a $4,000 server if they want to and have it DOA and they can return it for a new one but not get their money back. Once you buy it it's yours. Even if newegg.com decides to screw up their listing or description on their page and send you an item that does not match it does not matter according to their policy. I called them and asked. What should I call again and record the conversation and put it on the internet? Ok most of us who buy hardware for Linux use newegg.com. Why do we use it? Well because the nice reviews tell us weather someone else got the hardware working with Linux or not thats why. It's the best way to figure that out. Plus the shipping is cheap and the variety is great. But if your gonna operate in the US you should not be above the law like Microsoft. What next? Are they going to start including an agreement that says "by clicking I agree you also give your consent to allow our staff to employ your children as workers in a foreign country for at least 4 years. After which time you will be able to pay a fee to transport them back to the US. The sweatshop layber they give us will go towards making more items for you to buy" That makes as much sence. Lets throw the US constitution and laws out the window and have people sign their rights away. Oh here we go. How about a company owned by another country decides that by signing their agreement you must live according to their new laws stated in the agreement that are subject to change. What is the world coming to? |
| salparadise Dec 16, 2007 10:10 PM EDT |
Do you not have consumer protection groups in the US? Or some sort of rule of law?
Over here in the UK we have the Trading Standards people who will happily take up a cause such as this on your behalf.
Negative publicity usually scares the daylights out of companies. Not that I begrudge helping another out with such an issue, but, without it being specifically mentioned, for all I/we know, we're being asked to lobby a group cus someone bought a dodgy laptop (that may not even be running Linux). |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 16, 2007 10:14 PM EDT |
Did you ever think ti simply read the reviews on newegg and then buy the same hardware at the local hardware shop around the corner? |
| azerthoth Dec 16, 2007 10:50 PM EDT |
Look at the laws in the state that your uncle was in when he purchased it, the consumer laws do vary from state to state. I personally live in a "buyer beware" state that has no such thing as a "lemon law". You may have options available that you are unaware of.Quoting:What does it have to do with Linux, specifically? Without hardware we would have nothing on which to play with linux. Hardware sellers and resellers are just as important to us as what we put on that hardware. If one of the companies that caters to us poor schlepps whose nearest computer store requires getting on an aircraft to get to is playing games ... it would be rather nice to know that ahead of time. Still, even his latest response has a tin foil beanie quality to it. |
| tuxchick Dec 16, 2007 11:18 PM EDT |
Newegg's return policy is dead-easy to find- there is a link on every single product page, and in your shopping cart, and in your email invoices. So claiming ignorance is weak. Compare to CDW, which makes you ask for it, http://www.cdw.com/webcontent/inside/salesagreement.asp Their no-refunds policy for laptops is fairly standard; it's not at all unusual. Even so, retailers often make exceptions to keep customers happy, especially if you have a good history with them and don't have a habit of making bogus returns. Newegg is good to work with if you're not a flaming loon who yells "Boycott!" for no good reason. You don't give any useful information, just a lot of pointless shouting. -What was wrong with the notebook? -Why wasn't an exchange or repair good enough? -What constructive steps did your uncle take to remedy the problem? -What law or laws, specifically, is Newegg violating? -Why should anyone take you seriously when you emit wild rants like this? |
| zenarcher Dec 17, 2007 1:46 AM EDT |
Personally, I've never had a negative experience with anything I've purchased from NewEgg, including faulty items. They have been exceptional in their service. I can't say the same for TigerDirect nor Best Buy. I did encounter a similar problem with Best Buy, a few years ago. I purchased a new HP desktop computer at a local Best Buy. Took it home and within four hours, the hard drive failed. I called the store and was told I would have to deal directly with HP on the problem. I called the HP Service Center and was told it would take 4 - 6 weeks to get it fixed under warranty. I decided to avoid the hassle and just picked up a new hard drive at a local store and replaced it myself. I don't recall Best Buy explaining their return policy when I bought the computer, but I'm sure it was buried somewhere in their fine print. If I were going to make a major purchase, such as the laptop, I think I would ask specifically about the return policy and make my purchase accordingly. From my experience, I would not boycott NewEgg, as they have served me well. |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 17, 2007 2:37 AM EDT |
Quoting:Still, even his latest response has a tin foil beanie quality to it. Hehe, from a broken laptop to a political rant in under three paragraphs. "Newegg's RMA is unconstitutional!". Sounds a bit like SCO with their "The GPL is unconstitutional!" rant. But it all boils down to: - Uncle bought a Windows laptop (I checked. Newegg doesn't ship Asus laptops with Linux, except the Eee PC) - He didn't bother to read the return policy - Laptop arrives DOA - ??? - Linux community should boycot newegg Right... If you think newegg broke the law, sue them. It's the American way! But don't come up with crackpot ideas like this. |
| macemoneta Dec 17, 2007 7:08 AM EDT |
Newegg let's you return a defective unit. Presumably you want the same product you ordered, so the return policy does not impact you. The situation described sounds more like the "defect" is that you don't like the unit ordered; that's not Newegg's problem. Sell it on EBay if that's the case, and do more research before you buy. Or buy from a local retailer that will hold your hand through the purchase - and charge you for it. Newegg is able to keep their prices low by catering to the technically astute purchaser that does their research before the purchase. Every purchase I've made from Newegg has been exactly what I ordered, at the price I ordered it, with a guarantee that if it is defective they will replace it. That's all I ask from them, and it's all anyone should be asking from them. Once the "switch and return" scams start hitting them, they will be of no use to anyone because their prices will need to reflect that cost. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2007 7:31 AM EDT |
This is one of those cases where an informal personal boycott is appropriate. In other words, nobody who cannot live with the terms of neweggs policies should buy from them. It's utterly reasonable to say, "I can't afford to shell out XXX dollars and then be without my YYY for however long it takes to get satisfaction from the manufacturer" That's fair. Find a different merchant. You may pay more for the privilege, but you will get more to -- a return and refund policy that meets your needs. It will also be fair to those who can tolerate the inconvenience and risk associated with the newegg policies. |
| jdixon Dec 17, 2007 8:09 AM EDT |
> This is one of those cases where an informal personal boycott is appropriate. Yep. Use NewEgg to comparison shop and get the going price, then buy from someplace that lets you return the product (Walmart, perhaps). I thought everyone did that. NewEgg is great for things like motherboards, video cards, and disk drives, but for a full preloaded system I'd order from someone else. |
| kingttx Dec 17, 2007 9:14 AM EDT |
Actually, I think folks might be missing the point, although a Linux community-wide boycott may not take. Agreeing to a company's policy doesn't make it legal, and that's the intended purpose of this rant as I comprehend it. I do echo the question stated already: What specific law is Newegg's policy breaking? What is the context of that law, that is, what reasonable steps must be taken before Newegg must be held accountable? Are there loopholes to that law that Newegg is using, such as offering a reasonable replacement in lieu of a full refund, or is it fully illegal to NOT offer a refund in this type of case? I'd like to see this one taken up on Groklaw if they have space. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2007 1:03 PM EDT |
>What specific law is Newegg's policy breaking? So far as I can tell, they are breaking no federal law. I can't imagine they are breaking any state law, either. According to their policy, they will replace of repair the laptop. That's fair - that makes you whole. There is no special legal right to a refund. Even "lemon laws" -- which usually apply only to motor vehicles -- give sellers/manufacturers a certain number of tries/period of time make the product right before giving the right to a refund. |
| jdixon Dec 17, 2007 1:18 PM EDT |
> What specific law is Newegg's policy breaking? I trust Dino to be correct on this matter. While in any specific legal case it can be unwise to work from the general to the specific, the principle upon which such laws are based is simple. You paid your money for a product, and have an expectation that the product will work as advertised/generally expected. If it does not, then the seller has an obligation to fix the problem or refund your money (this basic principle goes all the way back to British common law). The manner in which they do so is largely up to them. As long as you have a working product or a refund within a reasonable amount of time, you probably have no legal claim. Since NewEgg is offering to correct the problem and give you a working product, it's unlikely that they're breaking any laws. |
| hkwint Dec 17, 2007 1:28 PM EDT |
Quoting:Do you not have consumer protection groups in the US? Or some sort of rule of law? Over here in the UK we have... FYI: In whole the EU-region consumers have the right to cancel the 'buying contract' within 30 days and have the right of a refund according to the Distance selling Directive: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_int/safe_shop/dist_sell/i... Doesn't it exist in the US? It doesn't happen often, but sometimes we can be glad with the EU after all it seems... Quoting:Use NewEgg to comparison shop and get the going price, then buy from someplace that lets you return the product Before I knew a better alternative for my own country existed, I always checked http://www.pricewatch.com/ for prices (didn't ever make any sense since I don't live in the US, but I always checked out of curiosity and to see how I'm being scr*wed by customs / import-levy). It offers a lot of different shops to buy an article from. It's the kind of system I use when buying new hardware. This would be my list of handling those issues: -First check the Linux Hardware Compatibility List to make sure the hardware you want to buy supports Linux; I recommend http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/ or the gNewSense / FSF recommended hardware list (stricter of course) http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/ -After you've chosen the part, compare the prices with a price-comparison-website, -Choose your shop and buy, OK, that first three steps are too late now, but that might be an advise for the next time. -If you're not happy, find out if there's a dispute-committee, maybe for the whole line of business, and complain, -If that doesn't work out, maybe you're a member of some sort of consumen-union? Even if you're not, you might ask them for help. -If that doesn't work out, call a consumer-TV-program and make absolutely sure they understand you're scr*wed. If you don't look really pathetic, you are of no interest to them (own experience). |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 17, 2007 1:35 PM EDT |
Quoting:If you don't look really pathetic, you are of no interest to them (own experience). So, what's your story then? Inquiring minds want to know :-) |
| hkwint Dec 17, 2007 1:49 PM EDT |
Quoting:So, what's your story then? That's completely off-topic, but it touches the subject of complaining I suggest. It boils down to my school for physically handicapped people nearly going bankrupt (the reason is not clear, in my opinion because the politicians failed and scr*wed up big time. In my country there's an abbreviation for the latter: UWV) while at the same time our minister and politicians claimed schooling is the most important aspect to enable people who are incapacitated for work ("arbeidsongeschikt") to start working again. My current school managed to educate and find jobs for a lot of people who had been 'declared 100% unfit for work' (I'm one of them in case anyone might ask). Back to the topic of complaining; After no luck with trying to call state departments and some politicians, I called the most sentimental show in our country. I told a bunch of disabled people - about fifty or so - were almost 'put back on the street' because our school was nearly bankrupt, and our school was the last possibility to get a job for many of those people. Now, a bunch of people - some of them in wheelchairs or limping etc. being put on the street and having no other means or possibility for education and a job seemed like a nice item for such a show according to me. They say they wouldn't come down before those people actually were put on the streets (and though they didn't say so, of course they liked to see some of them crying of course), almost being put on the streets was not enough. |
| jdixon Dec 17, 2007 1:58 PM EDT |
> ...call a consumer-TV-program and make absolutely sure they understand you're scr*wed. While I don't believe there is a legal complaint here, there may be a customer service complaint. For consumer complaints, you best first stop (at least in my experience) in the US is with the Better Business Bureau for the area in which the business is located. From NewEgg's zipcode, that would apparently be found at: http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/General/Home.aspx Second best would probably be one of the consumer affairs oriented magazines (Consumer Reports, et.al.). You could also try the Consumer Reports or Consumer Affairs websites. |
| tuxchick Dec 17, 2007 2:25 PM EDT |
I am surprised at the comments here that jump straight into complaining to the BBB and TV shows and other consumer help groups. As far as I can see those are not warranted by the circumstances. The first step is always talk to the vendor like a normal, reasonable person, instead of going off the deep end and calling for boycotts and other punishments, or going on TV, or complaining to everyone in the world except the vendor. In this case we aren't given any actual information other than "Newegg's return policy = selling your children into slavery." "Crackpot" and "tin foil beanie" sum it up for me. |
| dinotrac Dec 17, 2007 3:11 PM EDT |
>Doesn't it exist in the US? The US is a federal government, with 50 state governments underneath it. It's possible that some states have similar protection, but the federal government does not. For the most part, the US believes in granting people the right to make their own mistakes. Certain specific cases are often given extra protection, such as motor vehicle and real estate purchases, based on the theory of unequal knowledge and power between buyer and seller. Merchants and manufacturers are required to honor their warranties by federal law, and, in the absence of a written warranty, a warranty will be implied, but no guaranteed right to a refund in most cases. |
| jdixon Dec 17, 2007 4:03 PM EDT |
> The first step is always talk to the vendor like a normal, reasonable person... The implication of making a public posting about the matter is usually that this has been done and proven fruitless, TC. I will grant that may not be the case here, but it's normally a safe bet. |
| tuxchick Dec 17, 2007 4:23 PM EDT |
A very safe bet- I'm wondering how many of you even read the article and Justin's comment in this thread? You're discussing this like there is a rational basis for discussion. But there isn't. Here are a few snippets from the article:Quoting: In the US its illegal not to refund someone's money for a defective product or a product that is not as described and everyone has the right to return something that is new... Then his comment in this thread goes off on some weird child slavery tangent, Newegg is un-Constitutional, and how other countries are going to put us under their laws. So the tally is several unsubstantiated accusations of illegal activity in the original article, and a bizarre, non-responsive comment in this thread. I am puzzled how much credence he's being given in this- did I miss something? Like the part where makes a persuasive case for his viewpoint? All I see is a weird rant and zero facts. It's like you're discussing some other article somewhere else. |
| hkwint Dec 17, 2007 4:27 PM EDT |
Uhm, yes, of course you're going to try to solve your own problems before deciding 'you're not happy', although I assumed that's the normal thing to do before being unhappy. Solving ones own problems does make somebody happy, especially if you tried hard, doesn't it? For example three days back I finally got the Euro-sign working like I wanted too, after for six months one day a month searching, reading and trying for about two hours per month or so. Gosh, I was happy€€€€!. They once shipped me a failing motherboard, which was a manufacturing error. I tried it for two days with different monitors, keyboards and power supplies, asked people I knew if they had ideas, read the manual over and over again, and finally decided it might as well not be my fault at last, before deciding I was not happy (and finding out it was indeed a manufacturing error - the new board worked flawlessly). So when I said, if you're not happy, find a dispute committee, I also assumed you tried calling NewEgg, asked for their manager etc., found out the law for the state you live in etc. in case that wasn't clear. I left the 'middle part' between buying and complaining away because it seemed so logical to me, it almost goes without saying, I assumed. I might have been too enthusiastic though. |
| usacomputertec Dec 17, 2007 10:41 PM EDT |
-What was wrong with the notebook?
-Why wasn't an exchange or repair good enough?
-What constructive steps did your uncle take to remedy the problem?
-What law or laws, specifically, is Newegg violating?
-Why should anyone take you seriously when you emit wild rants like this? Here is the deal ok. The ASUS laptop was suppose to have a large screen and be very fancy. I was suppose to install Linux on it and it was no no way incompatible. The Ethernet part just will not work. There is something wrong with it. Ok so first of all it's not as described and second of all the Ethernet port does not work. I noticed also that they have a $700.00 laptop with the same guts sold by Gateway. It would be nice to send this hunk of junk back and get the cheap Gateway that should work right anyway. Of course I can't because newegg.com has their stupid policy. Now here is the kicker. The BBB or Better Business Burro in WA state is our defense. We call them and they ask the company nicely to please obey the law and let you return your item. If the company refuses the BBB says oh too bad. Thats the end of it. So the only thing to do is pay a lawyer or represent yourself. Now lets apply newegg.com's policy to Wall Mart. You walk in to the store and buy an item that says it's compatible with your appliance at home. You take it home and find that it's not. You take it back to the store and they say they will replace it but not allow you to exchange it for one that is compatible. It's the same thing. Now as far as my exaggerated point at the end it's just that an exaggeration. We aren't going to sign our lives away to other countries but the question is just what will our Government allow us to sign away to? Prostitution is legal in Vegas. Maybe they should have some sort of prostitution contract that says that they must have sex with every customer regardless of STDs. Is that something that they have a right to put in an agreement? This is the moral delema. How far are companies going to be able to push the limit. We know that children always are trying to get away with more and more so that their parents will be conditioned to accept their behavior as normal. When does the time come when the parent realizes what the kid is doing and spanks their kid? Companies and adults behave the same way with the law. |
| NoDough Dec 18, 2007 5:13 AM EDT |
usacomputertec: I don't believe the hyperbole helps your cause. It makes you look too extreme. Best to state the facts and let them prove your point. > "The ASUS laptop was suppose to have a large screen and be very fancy." That really isn't very descriptive. Something like, "The description said it had a 15.4 inch screen, but the delivered screen is only 14 inches," would be much more informative. > "I was suppose to install Linux on it and it was no no way incompatible. The Ethernet part just will not work. There is something wrong with it." Did NewEgg advertise Linux compatibility? You seem to infer that they did. Is the Ethernet port incompatible or broken? You seem to be saying both, but incompatible does not equal broken. If it's broken how do you know it's incompatible? > "I noticed also that they have a $700.00 laptop with the same guts sold by Gateway. It would be nice to send this hunk of junk back and get the cheap Gateway that should work right anyway. Of course I can't because newegg.com has their stupid policy." Sorry, but this is buyer's remorse. You saw something better after the purchase was complete. That doesn't obligate the seller to anything. > "If the company refuses the BBB says oh too bad." From personal experience, the BBB is not a consumer agency. They are a business. They take complaints from consumers and, if their customer (NewEgg, in this case) pays to have their record cleared, then the complaint vanishes. They would much rather erase the complaint than help you. That's what they get paid for. > "Now lets apply newegg.com's policy to Wall Mart." Wal Mart has a 100% satisfaction or your money back policy. NewEgg does not. In short, you need to change your writing style. You are obviously very passionate about your topics. Passion is your motivation and that's a good thing. However, it's also overwhelming your ability to pen a logical, cogent argument. Instead of writing when you are most upset, try waiting until you've cooled down a little. Once cooled down, organize your facts into a series of well supported points. Open with a paragraph that summarizes what you are about to prove, prove it, then close with a paragraph summarizing what you have just proven. Hope this helps. |
| usacomputertec Dec 22, 2007 6:22 PM EDT |
Thanks |
| Newegg14 Dec 26, 2007 11:05 AM EDT |
Dear USAComputertec, We do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. Please email me directly so I can help you resolve this issue: alex.a.villarino@newegg.com |
| ColonelPanik Dec 26, 2007 1:18 PM EDT |
So now I move Newegg up a few notches on my "buy from" list. Always talk to the guy you got it from first. That's a winner! And when you do, find ways to praise the product/service,etc because a little smile will make him/her a friend. It works. TC stated: >"Crackpot" and "tin foil beanie" sum it up for me.< Hey, that sums up the Colonel too. Wear it proudly, man. Proudly! Dec 23 - - wife has laptop melt-down. Called Acer, great service! When I told the support fellow that I meant melt-down as in the case started to deform, hot plastic is well...plastic. He said this is a huge safety issue and not only will ours get fixed but the company will look at the whole issue from the consumer safety point of view. And, this lappy would be one year old on January 7, 2008. Whew. |
| dinotrac Dec 26, 2007 2:39 PM EDT |
>And, this lappy would be one year old on January 7, 2008. Whew. Hmmm. Same birthday as me. Figures. I melted down years ago. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 26, 2007 2:53 PM EDT |
Dinot... Why when I was your age.... I was a whole lot younger! Mine is 01 21 so this is going to be a busy month for the person in charge of laundry and morale on this site. Just to keep it to Linux, on my birthday I will be using Linux. Debian Etch. |
| dinotrac Dec 26, 2007 3:26 PM EDT |
>Why when I was your age.... I was a whole lot younger! That would make you mighty old indeed, CP. I already qualify for the Senior Citizen's discount at one local store and am getting truly tired of the AARP solicitations. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 26, 2007 3:47 PM EDT |
This month I received my first Social Security check! Damn kid, get off my net. |
| hkwint Dec 26, 2007 4:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:>And, this lappy would be one year old on January 7, 2008. Whew. Well, if Jan 7 2008 is your date of birth Dino, you are much younger then I expected you to be! |
| ColonelPanik Dec 26, 2007 5:12 PM EDT |
Precocious lad. |
| dinotrac Dec 26, 2007 5:21 PM EDT |
>Well, if Jan 7 2008 is your date of birth Dino Second childhood. Or third. Can't remember. |
| azerthoth Dec 26, 2007 5:44 PM EDT |
Well Dino, you can rest assured that I celebrate on your birthday as well. Thats the same day we hatched my youngest son ... or is that two things in common? |
| dinotrac Dec 26, 2007 7:51 PM EDT |
January 7 is a mystical day, reserved for the best and the brightest. Last day of the first week of the first month of the year. Much better than January 1, because the hangover is finally gone. |
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