Ronald Hovsepian is an idiot
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tracyanne Apr 17, 2008 11:24 PM EDT |
nt |
| dinotrac Apr 18, 2008 12:03 AM EDT |
That may be, but here is an unrelated question: Is he wrong? What evidence do you have that he is wrong? Like it or not, consumers have not flocked to Linux, even in the face of Vista. Let's see what happens when XP becomes hard to get. I'll bet that the Mac gets more converts than Linux. I just don't see anybody effectively marketing Linux to consumers. Worse, I don't even see a mechanism available -- which would include feedback and adjustements to development -- in place for doing that. |
| Sander_Marechal Apr 18, 2008 12:13 AM EDT |
Quoting:I'll bet that the Mac gets more converts than Linux. Does it matter? The big barrier to Linux converts is Windows-itis, not Linux itself. If people convert to Mac then the Windows stranglehold will be broken, people stop living in a Windows-only world and we have a far easier time marketing Linux for desktop use. I would be entirely happy with Mac at 50% market share, Linux at 30% and Windows for the 20% that need some legacy app :-) |
| dinotrac Apr 18, 2008 12:28 AM EDT |
Sander - No, it doesn't matter. I agree that getting people to realize that computing != Windows is the first hurdle. For that matter, native Mac apps are sure to become more common, which means added attractiveness to cross-platform development models, which increases the likelihood of apps finding their way onto Linux. Still -- creating consumer desktops for more than a sliver of users is a mighty task indeed. So far, I don't see it happening. Doesn't mean it can't, just means it isn't. |
| DiBosco Apr 18, 2008 12:43 AM EDT |
I think one of the main factors against Mac having a big market share is its price. Also, as far as I understand it, although Mac just works, it does it with a pretty limited set of hardware. I may be wrong, but I think Linux works equally well, especially with modern distributions, if you just pick the right hardware. (That's certainly my experience.) I'm not convinced the Mac will get more converts than Linux, dino, partly because of the price, partly because Linux has now got a vast array of easy to install software and because once you get the sort of people like my dad who are finally willing to use Linux, more and more people get familiar with the concept of Linux and accept it as a possibility. I rather see people like me being the marketeers for Linux rather than big corporations. (Even though you end up sounding like you're on a bit of a crusade!) One thing I have undoubtedly seen in recent months, especially with friends and family in the Netherlands is that people *hate* Vista. I see, at times, fear in people's eyes when you talk about learning alternatives to things like Word and, in some cases, more specialist applications such as banking apps. I think, therefore, in some people's case, it's not so much Linux itself that's the issue, it's learning new apps. (I have a few ideas on ways to combat this that I am going to try.) Finally, the *companies* who are marketing Linux are people like Asus, Elonex and (to a smaller extent) Dell. I think this tipping point that you hear people talk about is actually not *that* far away, but then again, I was always the optimist! ;) |
| dinotrac Apr 18, 2008 4:22 AM EDT |
DiBosco -- Mac has those neat PC Guy v. Mac Guy commercials. Mac has Mac stores all over the place, and Best Buy and Frys. Mac has hardware that makes you go "I want that" -- not because of its specs, but because it just seems so...sweet. I belong to the Chicago rails groups, one of those places where attendees tote their lappies (did I just type that? Man!!! I should act my age.). The thing about Rails is that it don't much matter what you run it on. Ubuntu is a popular choice, but the most popular lappies by a mile are Macs. They just look cool, I guess. Continuing the ancecdotal trend, I have been surprised to see small businesspeople (Grammar --how to do that? it's (small business)people, not small (businesspeople) ) around here toting Macs. DIdn't used to see much of that. So -- Maybe not going to get the bottom dollar crowd, but...Apple sure did sell a lot of iPods when competing MP3 players were a whole lot cheaper... |
| DiBosco Apr 18, 2008 4:50 AM EDT |
Yep, dino, I would agree with all you say there. Macs undoubtedly look amazing and they do have the advertising behind them, I just see the market being way smaller than computers that are "merely" functional. I reckon the iPod thing is different as iPods are cheaper devices, so within the reach of far more people. I rather think - and could be way off here - that Macs are much more popular in the States than here in Europe. I only know (personally) two people here (one in the UK and one in Germany) that have Macs and tens of people who run Linux. I also see the number of people willing to try Linux growing by the week. As an aside, on the adverts front, I do like all those spoof Linux v Mac v PC adverts you find littered around the web. I even like one or two of the Novell ones as much as I'd never touch Novell with a bargepole! |
| dinotrac Apr 18, 2008 5:48 AM EDT |
You're not off-base. Macs are more popular in the US than the rest of the world. However, if you are in a graphics arts, music, or video crowd, you'll find Macs popular the world over. |
| number6x Apr 18, 2008 8:15 AM EDT |
dino, You make the trip downtown to the Aon building for those chirb meetings? We've probably met! |
| dinotrac Apr 18, 2008 8:34 AM EDT |
6x -- I actually belong to the other Chicago Ruby group, the one meeting in Elmhurst. |
| number6x Apr 18, 2008 8:58 AM EDT |
Were you at any of the rails conferences? '06 was in the Chicago area. I was at '06 in Chicago, and at 07 in Portland, but won't have time to make this year's. |
| dinotrac Apr 18, 2008 9:04 AM EDT |
6x - No. I'm pretty new to the Rails thing, but am having to dive in with both feet. Am hoping to attend Windy City Rails. |
| number6x Apr 18, 2008 9:19 AM EDT |
changes introduced in Rails 2.0 make a lot of the old tutorials and books obsolete. It is probably better to install an older version of Rails to get started with some of the books out there. I have a tutorial on how to install a specific version of Rails, and how to set up scaffolding in Rails 2.0: http://fairleads.blogspot.com/2007/12/rails-20-and-scaffoldi... |
| dinotrac Apr 18, 2008 9:24 AM EDT |
Thanks, 6x - I will go through that. I'm a little hesitant to get familiar with "Old Rails". I've been burned a few times --- Joomla comes to mind -- by things that move to a new version and, suddenly, all of the documentation being produced is for that version. As I am in a stage without too much already in place, and most of it was disposable pure ruby, I went ahead and fell forward to 2.0. I have suffered some pain with a demo site that was in process when I made the change, though. Sigh. From pain we gain, right? I'm doing all of my stuff with Postgresql, so I must suffer some Rails pain anyway. Generic db handling my arse. Grrrrrrrrr. At least I am not alone in that and have been able to harvest useful patches for the Postgresql connector. If only I were getting paid, it might all be worthwhile... |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 18, 2008 10:19 AM EDT |
Nice of a guy to bash a business he's not really in. My recent trip to Fry's, where I didn't see SLED but did see Xandros, had me thinking about why Ubuntu isn't pushing CDs/DVDs at retail. They could do a nice package and catch the "casual" shopper, making a few bucks in the process. They do have the Ubuntu book, which includes a CD, but they need to get into the software section ... and/or promote the hell out of that book. |
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