Mark Shuttleworth is right.
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tracyanne May 10, 2009 9:56 PM EDT |
Linux must be marketed as Linux, not a clone of Windows. |
| garymax May 10, 2009 10:32 PM EDT |
I am all for Linux standing on its own merits. I have never seen it advertised as a "clone" of Windows at all. In fact, that is a problem: there is little to no advertising for desktop Linux in general. However, many in the Linux camp seem to not realize that as good as open source apps may be, the state of Linux applications does not necessarily hold parity with the Windows world at the moment. In order to facilitate an easy migration to Linux it is imperative to have a way to run applications which either have no Linux analog or if Linux has one it is so low in quality so as to be unusable for the majority of those switching. In other words, the current Linux application is not mature enough for use as a Windows replacement. Not a criticism, just a fact. It has nothing to do with Linux standing on its own; it has everything to do with making the switch to Linux painless with as little barrier to entry as possible. The issue really isn't about running Windows apps on Linux. The real issue is to get the software developers who crafted Microsoft code to begin porting their products to Linux. Until they do, Wine/Crossover Linux is a fine "middleman" approach while Linux continues its march forward. I think Shuttleworth missed the boat here as I have not seen Linux marketed as a Windows-like OS or as a replacement platform for Windows applications. As Linux takes hold fewer Windows apps will need to be run under Linux as there will be Linux versions of the applications. Until then Wine/Crossover Linux is a fine solution. |
| Steven_Rosenber May 11, 2009 12:53 AM EDT |
I'm the first person to say that the whole idea of a Linux desktop needing to "do everything a Windows desktop can do" is not the best way to look at it. It's my biggest problem with the How to Forge site. I certainly think that a lot of the things that one would like to accomplish in Windows are things that would be nice to accomplish in Unix/Linux. But there are plenty of things we can do in Unix/Linux that can't be done in Windows. Of course adding Cygwin can help alleviate that situation, as can installation and use of a number of applications that either also have native Windows ports, or use the GTK runtime available for Windows users. I'd like my Windows box not to run at times like someone poured sludge into it. If I could do a clean install every month, I would (but I can't — don't have the required access or the media, and thus I don't). Of course all of us have a few niggly things that can be done in Windows but not in the comparable applications in Unix/Linux. I don't need Photoshop, but I do need to read those Photoshoppy tags that 100 percent of professional photographers drop into their jpeg images. But rather than use WINE to run Photoshop, I'd much rather my favorite Unix/Linux apps just add this feature (which to be more geeky I will refer to as "reading, writing and not summarily erasing the IPTC data"). Unfortunately at this point just about the only Unix/Linux app that has deigned to do this is DigiKam. Those who code the GIMP continue to think of IPTC data as evil, Photoshoppy and below their standard regarding just what should be included in a JPEG image. Well, tell that to the photographers who produce the thousands of JPEGs that cross my desktop in the course of a typical month. If Krita managed to preserve/edit IPTC data in JPEGs, I'd be the world's fastest KDE convert and the world's biggest Slackware fan. That's all it would take. A single feature. Goodbye Xfce, see you later GNOME ... ONE FEATURE. I should probably learn to code. While I'm at it, maybe I'll take up chain-saw juggling. A little WINE would solve my problem, but I'd rather not go there. All the good things that Linux and the various Unix-like systems I run have pretty much allowed me to leave every Windows app behind. And all you FOSS coders out there, thanks (really!) for all the stability and productivity I've enjoyed over the past two years and then some. All I want is my IPTC data ... (please!). |
| DiBosco May 11, 2009 3:24 AM EDT |
Steven, would exiv2 work? http://linux.die.net/man/1/exiv2 |
| Steven_Rosenber May 11, 2009 5:53 PM EDT |
Now it should be that much easier for those who write/maintain image-editing progams to bring this functionality into their apps. |
| vainrveenr May 11, 2009 8:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:I'm the first person to say that the whole idea of a Linux desktop needing to "do everything a Windows desktop can do" is not the best way to look at it. It's my biggest problem with the How to Forge site. I certainly think that a lot of the things that one would like to accomplish in Windows are things that would be nice to accomplish in Unix/Linux.To add insult to injury here, many Windows desktop apps probably end up as mere Windowwarts. And just what is a" Windowwart" ? From http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=my_linux_perso... Quoting:"Windowwart" - n. "win-dow-wart" Any misfeature which was stupid design the first time it happened on Windows, and is carried over to Linux just to make Windows immigrants feel at home. Should we also install a clutch pedal in all cars with automatic transmissions so that stick drivers will feel at home when they switch to automatic?Indeed not! |
| gus3 May 11, 2009 9:05 PM EDT |
Quoting:Should we also install a clutch pedal in all cars with automatic transmissions so that stick drivers will feel at home when they switch to automatic?Well, since you ask, yes! Do you know how many times I've driven a borrowed automatic, only to stomp my left foot onto the brake pedal by accident? A dummy clutch pedal would reduce the wear on brakes and passengers alike! |
| flufferbeer May 11, 2009 9:35 PM EDT |
'Dunno about this, gus3 For auto trans cars, I say let those few stickshifters who refuse to adapt and must have dummy clutch pedals, let THESE particular drivers install their OWN dummy clutch pedals for THEMSELVES. makes sense to me. Taking this to the office software level, whether OpenOffice or M$-Wooden, adding features that make the software bloated and that only a minuscule number of people use just doesn't seems justified to me. 2c |
| jdixon May 11, 2009 10:08 PM EDT |
> In order to facilitate an easy migration to Linux it is imperative to have a way to run applications which either have no Linux analog or if Linux has one it is so low in quality so as to be unusable for the majority of those switching. People won't migrate to Linux because it can do everything they can do in Windows. They'll migrate to Linux when Linux can do more things they want to do then Windows can. |
| tracyanne May 11, 2009 11:29 PM EDT |
Can Windows run without Virus protection and stay virus free... No, it's hard pressed to stay Virus free with Virus protection. |
| TxtEdMacs May 12, 2009 8:37 AM EDT |
question:Quoting:Should we also install a clutch pedal in all cars with automatic transmissions so that stick drivers will feel at home when they switch to automatic?No. At one time I would have thought it to be a good idea. However, I have become more flexible, i.e. I no longer stomp the floor in an automatic transmission vehicle nor do I grind the gears when I am back in my manual transmission.car. Somehow that difficulty has passed. Perhaps, albeit reluctantly, having decided that if I buy a new vehicle it will be either a plug-in hybrid electric or a conventional hybrid where I will be stuck with some sort of constantly variable geared automatic transmission. Thus, it stopped being such a big deal. Nonetheless, if we are talking OSs! That's a big difference for me and ... YBT |
| caitlyn May 13, 2009 12:31 AM EDT |
People won't migrate to Linux because it can do everything they can do in Windows. They'll migrate to Linux when Linux can do more things they want to do then Windows can. jdixon: Even that might not be enough. Way too many people fear change. Lots of people are lazy. If Windows works they won't feel like they have to change. Even when it doesn't work for many it's better to stick with the devil they know. |
| jdixon May 13, 2009 9:18 AM EDT |
> Even that might not be enough. For some people, probably not. But I think it would be enough for most. > Lots of people are lazy. If Windows works they won't feel like they have to change. Even when it doesn't work for many it's better to stick with the devil they know. You know Caitlyn, that's perilously close to saying some people are idiots. :) |
| jacog May 13, 2009 9:46 AM EDT |
Well, people generally are idiots. Modern society embraces stupidity and keeps lowering the bar (as in high jumping, not the limbo). The "leave no kid behind" thing that schools do is discouraging children to excel. Free thought is generally discouraged because with it, how would politicians and marketers be able to do what they do? And we certainly can't have too many educated people, we have to keep a section of society down so they can be our manual labour force. Regards, Your Friendly Neighbourhood Cynic |
| jdixon May 13, 2009 10:16 AM EDT |
> Well, people generally are idiots. It's a reference to a disagreement in another thread, jacog. :) As to your evalution of the public education system, you're preaching to the choir. |
| jacog May 13, 2009 1:18 PM EDT |
> It's a reference to a disagreement in another thread, jacog. :) I know, been following that fun one also. ;) |
| caitlyn May 13, 2009 6:07 PM EDT |
For some people, probably not. But I think it would be enough for most. I think you underestimate the fear of change or the unknown. I think for most people it isn't enough. You know Caitlyn, that's perilously close to saying some people are idiots. :) Oh, some people are idiots. No question about it. I just don't call them idiots to their face or browbeat them in an attempt to get them to use Linux. |
| azerthoth May 13, 2009 6:22 PM EDT |
*humor*
the difference between calling someone an idiot and thinking someone is an idiot, one is polite and gives the person a chance to change, the other leaves them clueless
*/humor* or was it? |
| jdixon May 13, 2009 7:44 PM EDT |
> I think for most people it isn't enough. You may be correct. Time will tell. > I just don't call them idiots to their face... As I pointed out in the earlier thread, neither does Ken. A blog post is not "to their face". |
| caitlyn May 13, 2009 9:08 PM EDT |
OK. I don't write blog posts calling Windows users idiots. I don't try to convince people to switch to Linux online by browbeating users of other operating systems. Satisfied? |
| jdixon May 13, 2009 9:40 PM EDT |
> Satisfied? Well, it's a lot better than before, yes. I think even Ken will admit that it's only a slightly exaggerated statement of his position. However, I wasn't dissatisfied in that sense, Caitlyn. I don't expect you to agree with Ken. I don't expect you to agree with me. I don't expect you to agree with anyone here on any given point. And I don't expect you to be quiet when you disagree with people; Lord knows I can't, as is demonstrated here on a too regular basis. What I do hope is that you will appreciate the good which Ken does, allow that good to enable you to put up with the aspects of his personality which annoy you, and separate your personal dislike of those aspects from your evaluation of his actions (the fact that you said "For the sake of the Linux community I wish he'd just shut up" indicates to me that you can't do that at the moment), In spite of his faults, which he will freely admit to, he's one of the good guys (as are you, I might add). None of us are perfect, and we all do what we can with what we have. Ken does far more good than harm, and you seem unable to recognize that (or, if you do, you have problems expressing it, which I find hard to credit given your otherwise good writing skills). |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!