ROFL
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tracyanne Jul 21, 2009 6:17 PM EDT |
NT And I might add LMAO |
| KernelShepard Jul 21, 2009 6:45 PM EDT |
Looks like between this guy and David Schlesinger, Roy has been getting dangerously close to ending up in a court room for libel & defamation: http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com/2009/06/when-zeal-becomes... He doesn't seem to know when to quit, does he? Instead of spreading more libel about David Schlesinger, a smart person would have backed off. But not Roy Schestowitz. He thinks he's above the law and so decides to spread as much libel as humanly possible in order to force David to sue him. Apparently PhD's aren't what they used to be. |
| bigg Jul 21, 2009 8:02 PM EDT |
Not surprising that one specific other individual is named in the article. Both he and Schestowitz have devoted significant resources to fighting FOSS. |
| tuxchick Jul 21, 2009 8:51 PM EDT |
Good grief, the MS turfers are getting thick. Let's count: justintime, kernelshepherd, Jon, David "Lefty" Schlesinger, Bryan Lunduke...Mr. Schlesinger has quite a bit of time on his hands, and after making mountains out of molehills to attack Roy Schestowitz and RMS (coincidentally, both have come out strongly against Mono recently, and justintime and kernelshepherd never miss a chance to take shots at them on LXer) is following up with multiple long article comments, like these two examples:
http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14668
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3830651/ All of these folks sure have a lot of time to devote to character assassination and spreading FUD. It's almost like that's their real jobs. Yeah I know, you're all pure lambs and I'm full of it. Whatever. Save your breath, I have eyes. Though I'm happy to share a laugh at the idea of an admitted MS TE (Jon) writing this long rambling screed on how his feelings are hurt by Roy S. It is true that you can't take Roy's conclusions at face value and have to dig to find the real gold-- which he delivers in the form of source documents such as the court filings for Comes vs. Microsoft, which has been a gold mine of evidence of MS' dirty deeds. Such as massing the turfers to attack people like RMS and Roy S, and loading up forums and comments to the point that real people get crowded out. Bigg, did you really mean to say 'devoted significant resources to fighting FOSS'? PP was a total pill about the Tux 500, but otherwise his stance on FOSS is consistent. (He's for it.) Check out http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=open_source_vs... it's right on: Quoting:You know who Linux's enemy is? Oh, nobody much. Just the most powerful corporation in the known universe, founded by the richest human being in the universe. Not that big a bother, is it? When that company bribes half the world's governments to stand against you, manipulates most of the supporting hardware and software markets to refuse to work with you, and takes every opportunity to call you everything from a communist to a criminal, and whose influence permeates every tiny, possible corner of all forms of media, yeah, you might have to defend yourself sometimes. |
| azerthoth Jul 21, 2009 9:14 PM EDT |
Wow, all it takes to be an astro turfer is to come out against Roy and RMS? Think the fount of PP is a paragon of virtue? Add me to the list. Sorry. Roy has come terribly close to, if not has crossed the on things that could land him in court, if you believe Ken and I do, a lawyer contacted him about PP's actions over tux500. Coming out on one side or the other of the mono debate, and being on the 'wrong' side? Add me to the astro turfer list. |
| bigg Jul 21, 2009 9:24 PM EDT |
I only know of one thing about that guy, and it was his role in destroying one of the few attempts we've seen to market Linux. He might hate Microsoft with a passion, but that doesn't mean I will ever be able to see him as not a member of the dark side. He was more effective in the fight against FOSS than justintime or any of the astroturfers. |
| jdixon Jul 21, 2009 11:28 PM EDT |
> I only know of one thing about that guy, and it was his role in destroying one of the few attempts we've seen to market Linux. While that incident still rankles with me too, there's more to him than just that incident. And Tuxchick is right, he is largely supportive of FOSS, as is Roy. However, I'll readily admit that both he and Roy have been know to overuse tin foil on occasion, and both have been demonstrably gone overboard in their accusations of others. It's always best to keep in mind that no one is perfect (except Dino, of course, just ask him), and we all make mistakes from time to time. |
| Alterax Jul 21, 2009 11:55 PM EDT |
Well, speech is free, and the man is entitled to his opinions. However, posting what amounts to page after page of whining, finger-pointing and childish pouting because he wasn't granted a soapbox and immediate applause from a group he has worked to undermine is immature and completely uncalled for. I also find his attempts to downplay his relationship with Microsoft to be ludicrous. I'm supposed to find camaraderie with him because he chooses to work for a company that he doesn't approve of? To me, it means he'd rather sell out his self-respect than work for something he's fully behind but pays a couple of thousand less. In short, if he can't stand this kind of opposition, then it would be best for him to stay at the Microsoft sites--where discussions by GNU/Linux enthusiasts are met with the exact same type of opposition. |
| krisum Jul 22, 2009 12:36 AM EDT |
Carla, its really getting tiresome now to put up with your categorization of justintime and KernelShephard as turfers etc. everytime they post a comment. You would do well to focus on the content rather than your ideas of the man. |
| KernelShepard Jul 22, 2009 7:12 AM EDT |
Alterax: I can see your point in a way, but I think it's fair to say that he was mistreated. Am I gonna cry a river of tears for him? No. He walked into a cesspit and stayed there for a week. I don't know what else he expected to come from that.Quoting:In short, if he can't stand this kind of opposition, then it would be best for him to stay at the Microsoft sites--where discussions by GNU/Linux enthusiasts are met with the exact same type of opposition. I'm not sure which Microsoft discussion sites you are referring to, but I have never seen this type of immaturity by any Microsoft software development discussion forum[1] admins (or anyone at all, but I would not be surprised if some troll did).[2] I'd also like to point out that I find it odd that Roy requests that everyone post a disclaimer of who they work for in every single comment (can't just do it once per thread according to Roy), then why is it that none of his friends have to follow the same rules? None of Roy's friends posted who they worked for in the threads linked to by Jonathan Wong, nor any other BN article that I've randomly clicked. Why the double standard? (tinfoil folded into origami hats immediately comes to mind, as does irrational hatred) 1. All of the Microsoft public forums I know of are software-development related (e.g. MSDN) 2. Let me note that I have never seen this level of immaturity by any admins on any FLOSS-related developer mailing-lists either. I mention this because I'm sure someone will attack me assuming I'm trying to insinuate that FLOSS people are somehow all nasty people. Let me assure you that I'm not saying any such thing. |
| KernelShepard Jul 22, 2009 7:13 AM EDT |
krisum: thanks, I appreciate it. |
| bigg Jul 22, 2009 8:01 AM EDT |
I think it's safe to say BN is irrelevant, so perhaps we ought not spend more calories discussing it. At first I was concerned that someone might actually take the site seriously. It appears that very few do. |
| tracyanne Jul 22, 2009 8:17 AM EDT |
I thought it was funny, because Jonathan Wong got it so right about Roy, on his first meeting with the wacko. |
| KernelShepard Jul 22, 2009 8:25 AM EDT |
tracyanne: I got your meaning and also found it funny ;-) |
| Libervis Jul 22, 2009 9:26 AM EDT |
Well... this article nails it, unfortunately. As someone who used to be an FSF type of purist I actually liked what BN was about. Despite the fact that RMS himself has said that the Free Software movement isn't the anti-microsoft movement, somehow that meme just wont die and RMS isn't doing much to stop it, while BN seems to be doing everything to further it. If you're a purist you're almost inevitably going to see Microsoft as the ultimate source of evil, for it is the biggest proprietary software company in the world, and you think all proprietary software is as evil as theft. Of course, then you'll find stuff written at BN to be appealing and would find accusations of spreading anti-MS FUD and being paranoid as just another strategy by MS to strangle the precious community. It's almost like there's no way out of it mentally other than to re-check your own premises, which I did, and found the FS purist position to be self contradictory while missing the fundamentals of freedom. The only remaining reason for justifying principled stand on using only FSF approved software is practicality, exactly the reason FSF decries as valid. I end up siding more with the Open Source movement and Eric Raymond than FSF and RMS. BN seems to have been playing a role of countering MS FUD. Today, however, they are the premium producer of FUD that ironically not only attacks Microsoft, but hinders Linux as well. Ironically though I'm still listed at their Free Software Credibility Index with a nice rating of 5. :D http://boycottnovell.com/credibility-index/ Yet clearly, I must be an astroturfer. ;) |
| tuxchick Jul 22, 2009 10:12 AM EDT |
Libervis, I'm pretty sure that when you speak you speak for yourself. Krisum, turfers don't have ideas, they parrot talking points. And I find turfers and trolls to be very tedious, especially when they infest LXer. |
| Sander_Marechal Jul 22, 2009 10:51 AM EDT |
Never saw that index before. It seems that Scott and I aren't on there :-) |
| krisum Jul 22, 2009 11:04 AM EDT |
Quoting: Krisum, turfers don't have ideas, they parrot talking points. And I find turfers and trolls to be very tedious, especially when they infest LXer.At least I have not seen much evidence of this in their posts. I could point to posts where the opposite can be shown. So do you find the possibility that they are actually *not* turfers so hard to consider? And what tedious? I have seen no evidence of yourself trying to give a half decent reply before giving up either. In any case, belaboring the same categorization serves no purpose other that showing (correctly or incorrectly) that there is little you can say about the content of their posts. |
| azerthoth Jul 22, 2009 12:31 PM EDT |
Libervis, for all that I have enjoyed watching your conversion, and I applaud you for the fortitude it takes to seriously re evaluate ones own world view and adjust accordingly, you still amaze me with your insight at times. Perhaps more that I am willing to try understand what you are saying from your view point as I understand it, and think about it in those terms. This time you dropped a big bomb that very few see. The FSF and Proprietary proponents are two side of the same coin, not opposite but equal to each other. Both accomplishing the same ultimate goal regardless of which side is up. |
| Libervis Jul 22, 2009 1:13 PM EDT |
Yes that's it azerthoth, in a nutshell. When you hack the branches instead of striking at the roots of the tree of badness, the tree still grows. In fact, hacking the branches makes it grow even more efficiently. MS and the proprietary world are one branch, a big ugly rough branch and FS is another branch, a small nice green one that *looks* like it could somehow by itself cure the entire tree. But it wont since the root is the root and if the root is sick you can't help but strike it down. (Anyway, thanks for the compliments. If the mental reward is bigger than the fortitude required, the fortitude isn't really a fortitude, but in fact the path of least resistance. :P) |
| tuxchick Jul 22, 2009 1:34 PM EDT |
krisum, then you haven't been reading their posts. |
| azerthoth Jul 22, 2009 1:48 PM EDT |
Yes TC I have, and from KS all I really see is a dislike of zealotry regardless from which side it comes from. |
| tuxchick Jul 22, 2009 1:58 PM EDT |
Quoting: If you're a purist you're almost inevitably going to see Microsoft as the ultimate source of evil, for it is the biggest proprietary software company in the world, and you think all proprietary software is as evil as theft. Actually I see them as a big source of evil because they are evil, not because proprietary software is inherently evil. It's just a great tool to hide all sorts of evil technologies, like DRM and spyware, and other customer-hostile stuff. I use it as little as possible for a whole herd of practical reasons: free software is open, transparent, hackable, and there is nowhere to hide sneaky micro-control-the-end-user stuff. Free software doesn't try to control the entire retail chain, hardware vendors, standards bodies, tech press, and governments. Free software doesn't drive people out of their jobs (Peter Quinn) or put them in jail (Dmitri Sklyarov). Penguin Pete was absolutely horrid about the Tux500, and he slimed me once for something I forget now. But he's still right about this: http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=who_are_the_re... Quoting: If Linux makers and users were as single-minded and biased as we are said to be, then wouldn't it make sense that we'd also fight with, well, other technology companies as well? And yet, you don't see that, do you? Funny, no other company attacks Linux the way Microsoft does... It seems many of you have forgotten than Microsoft started the fight with Linux and especially the GPL many years ago, and have devoted enormous resources to attacking and discrediting it. Hence the floods of propaganda, FUD, astoturfers and shills, SCO, the Get the Facts campaign with was the impetus for creating LXer in the first place-- how many of you still hold a grudge against Linux Today for that? Or do you think it's OK now because suddenly none of those issues matter? Whether Roy S. helps or hurts Linux is debatable; I spend more time reading the source documents he digs up than his commentary on them, because his commentary is too hard for me to make sense of. It's interesting that even though he is called a crackpot and a nut, he is getting an awful lot of attention from the turfer and troll brigades. That's a good indicator that someone is taking him seriously. |
| krisum Jul 22, 2009 2:01 PM EDT |
@tuxchick
Quoting: krisum, then you haven't been reading their posts.You will have to do better than this. |
| dinotrac Jul 22, 2009 2:18 PM EDT |
TC - What goes around comes around, I guess. I played a role in outing George Tirebiter years ago on Linux Today. Now, it seems, my disdain for Roy and PeePee make me a turfer. |
| number6x Jul 22, 2009 2:22 PM EDT |
dino, I think that makes you a false astro-turfer. This does not make you back into real grass-roots, but you become something like the green stuff that they line easter baskets with before putting the candy in. whatever that stuff is called. |
| dinotrac Jul 22, 2009 2:34 PM EDT |
Sigh. Not even real astro-turf. Excuse me while I go kill myself. Or to the bathroom, whichever is easier. |
| number6x Jul 22, 2009 2:38 PM EDT |
That easter basket grass helps bring enjoyment to millions of children every year! And think of the dentists who can afford bigger boats because of the candy the grass helps deliver! this is good stuff dino! |
| tuxchick Jul 22, 2009 3:20 PM EDT |
dino, being a turfer would make you a turfer. I have a hard time seeing puppet strings on you. Like Libervis (and Tracyanne, az, Txtedmacs, and the rest of the usual suspects) your views are your own. |
| Libervis Jul 22, 2009 3:28 PM EDT |
TC:Quoting:Actually I see them as a big source of evil because they are evil, not because proprietary software is inherently evil. First, Microsoft is a pretty large group of people and not all of them necessarily qualify as evil, no matter what standard you have for calling them that. You well know guilt by association is a fallacy. As far as you can go down the association path is to claim that people who work for the MS execs while knowing the crimes committed or ordered by them are supporting something evil. Second, if your standard for evil is based on Free Software philosophy I think it's flawed. I wont claim that a lot of things MS people have done are evil, but we might not agree on all the specific cases because we have different standards of determining them. Again, FSF standards are flawed and self contradictory. All the stuff you said about benefits of FOSS I agree with of course. Comparably FOSS is certainly better than proprietary software, but that's only *comparably*. One is not the end all solution to the other. The problem goes deeper into the mentality of people. Quoting: [HYPERLINK@penguinpetes.com] Of all the companies he named there only Apple applies, and even them not fully. Linux is considered an operating system by many, though more precisely it's its core, and so only other operating systems would apply in his argument. OS X is still a very very small player compared to Windows and most Linux users have not come from OS X, but from Windows. So suppose that Microsoft never were proactive about attacking Linux, there would still be considerable impetus for hating them compared to Apple simply because their market and mind share is so big and if you didn't notice, everyone likes to be the popular underdog. This sentiment alone can create zealotry, especially combined with a moralizing and exclusionary ideology like the RMS's Free Software philosophy. I'm not denying that MS do proactively target Linux, or at least that they had a history of doing so, but knee jerk reacting isn't and never was a way to solve the problems. By reacting to negativity with more negativity all you have is, precisely more negativity. Fight fire by fire and you all burn down. I think that's exactly what is going on here and why some people, like me, are warning that this strategy may be harming what it's supposed to defend. My despise for it only grows further when I am reminded of the fact that this whole "war" by itself is a huge straw man if the true goal is "freedom" like purists like to claim. It's not. You just don't see it (and when pointed out, you scorn it and *wont* see it either and hide behind p******** correctness). Regards. |
| justintime Jul 22, 2009 4:02 PM EDT |
Wow, Libervis just summed up my thoughts exactly and in a much more elegant way than I could have done myself. Thanks. I'd also like to point out that I think the same applies to the "Mono war". |
| jdixon Jul 22, 2009 5:08 PM EDT |
> Actually I see them as a big source of evil because they are evil, Absolutely, as demonstrated by their actions, both past and present. > First, Microsoft is a pretty large group of people and not all of them necessarily qualify as evil, no matter what standard you have for calling them that. Microsoft does not equal the people who work for Microsoft. You're arguing against something TC never said. > if your standard for evil is based on Free Software philosophy I think it's flawed. Again, an unwarranted assumption. Nothing TC's said indicates that's the case. Supporting the same general goals as (or even some of the goals of) the FSF does not mean agreeing with them about everything. > ...there would still be considerable impetus for hating them compared to Apple simply because their market and mind share is so big... Size isn't a very good reason for hating something. Being evil is. > I'm not denying that MS do proactively target Linux... Good, as that would be significantly out of touch with reality. > By reacting to negativity with more negativity all you have is, precisely more negativity There are times violence must be met with violence, anger with anger, and hate with hate. These time are mercifully few, but they do exist. > Fight fire by fire and you all burn down. You've obviously never heard of a backfilre: http://www.wisegeek.com/in-firefighting-what-is-a-backfire.h... > ...when I am reminded of the fact that this whole "war" by itself is a huge straw man if the true goal is "freedom" like purists like to claim... True freedom means people are free to choose what they want, even if we don't agree with them. So you're correct that the FSF isn't really about true freedom. > You just don't see it Who doesn't see it? Most of us here have pretty much always known it. Simply check out the old discussions if you need proof. |
| Libervis Jul 22, 2009 6:47 PM EDT |
@jdixonQuoting:Microsoft does not equal the people who work for Microsoft. You're arguing against something TC never said. She said "they" are evil without specifying the execs so I am free to assume she means Microsoft and everyone working for Microsoft especially since "working for Microsoft" is the usual red flag enough to bring on the flames I'm talking about. So the argument should hold, not everyone in MS is necessarily evil. Quoting:Again, an unwarranted assumption. Nothing TC's said indicates that's the case. Supporting the same general goals as (or even some of the goals of) the FSF does not mean agreeing with them about everything. I made an IF statement. Those who do support FS philosophy 100% should take notice. If TC doesn't, that's cool. Quoting:Size isn't a very good reason for hating something. Being evil is. Well I shouldn't have used the word "simply" as size means a lot more in this context. For example, just look at frustration a Linux user may feel when confronted with a largely Windows-only world. The reason they don't just give in to what everybody else is using (for the sake of interoperability, playing the same games they play and running same commercial software they use etc.) is because they really think Linux is better and FS philosophy is superior. This creates a protective attitude and prompts Linux evangelism which are the seed of zealotry. Also look at the Apple fanboys.. AFAIK MS hasn't harassed them as much as Linux yet they have a cult following and some of the most die hard OS zealots around. The point is, MS being evil isn't *necessary* for zealotry to develop. It's only one, but not a key factor. Also, what a good reason for feeling an emotion is really isn't very much up to you and me to say. We can only make observations not arbitrary pronouncements. Quoting:There are times violence must be met with violence, anger with anger, and hate with hate. These time are mercifully few, but they do exist. I can only think of defensive mechanisms for that, but defense is generally triggered at the moments of attack. There's a point at which defense turns into nothing but vengeance (which consumes the vengeful as much as the target, if not more). Quoting:There are times violence must be met with violence, anger with anger, and hate with hate. These time are mercifully few, but they do exist. I obviously don't think that strategy is what's pursued here. It's turning more into vengeance. As said it consumes the one taking vengeance too. Anti-MS FUD ends up prompting anti-Linux FUD by Linux advocates themselves (such as anti-Mono people ratcheting up the patents threat giving it more voice than MS alone would have). Quoting:Who doesn't see it? Most of us here have pretty much always known it. Simply check out the old discussions if you need proof. Well I'm referring to deeper issues than just FSF not recognizing people's choices as freedom. You don't have to adopt an exactly FSF like view to still be making the same mistake as they do, only in a different way. There are many branches and even sub branches on the "tree of evil", jumping from one to the other still doesn't solve the problem. But I'm not allowed to speak of the root here (and when I did I was faced with mentioned p******** correctness defenses) so I'll leave it at that. Cheers |
| TxtEdMacs Jul 22, 2009 6:49 PM EDT |
JIT,
Quoting:Wow, Libervis just summed up my thoughts exactly and in a much more elegant way than I could have done myself.Really? I guess that's because you have not yet been optimized. YBT |
| TxtEdMacs Jul 22, 2009 7:03 PM EDT |
TC,Quoting: [RE: Being a turfer.] I have a hard time seeing puppet strings on you [dino]. Like Libervis (and Tracyanne, az, Txtedmacs, and the rest of the usual suspects) ...I resent the implication of this assertion! I am an honest shill, you'll see when the checks finally begin to arrive [damn you MS with this crap "the checks are in the mail"]. You'll see, I will surf and turf with half-baked ideas having no credence but said with certainty to confuse the hoi polloi, as I blacken the name of all things free where MS is the only answer. But I will not do it for Free. You see? On Dixon (no jd is a good guy), on Prancer ... [I think these pages were not put back in the proper order when I dropped them. Oh, well.] YBT |
| Libervis Jul 22, 2009 7:05 PM EDT |
Well I'm a turfer too. I am paid by myself to spread my own selfish ideas. ;) |
| jdixon Jul 22, 2009 8:46 PM EDT |
> She said "they" are evil without specifying the execs so I am free to assume she means Microsoft and everyone working for Microsoft Your free to assume anything you want, but it's an assumption unwarranted by the facts. When people say Microsoft, they normally mean exactly that, Microsoft the corporation; not the people employed by Microsoft. > So the argument should hold, not everyone in MS is necessarily evil. Except, as already noted, TC didn't even insinuate that they were. > ...is because they really think Linux is better and FS philosophy is superior. Merely believing Linux is better is enough. You don't have to either agree or disagree with the Free software philosophy, especially as espoused by the FSF. > The point is, MS being evil isn't *necessary* for zealotry to develop. It's only one, but not a key factor. You're correct, but that doesn't change the fact that Microsoft has a documented history of evil behavior, which should be recognized and taken into account. > There are many branches and even sub branches on the "tree of evil", jumping from one to the other still doesn't solve the problem. With all due respect, and solely in my opinion, I think you may be seeing connections which simply don't exist. Which is, ironically, exactly the problem Roy seems to have. |
| Libervis Jul 22, 2009 9:10 PM EDT |
Quoting:Your free to assume anything you want, but it's an assumption unwarranted by the facts. When people say Microsoft, they normally mean exactly that, Microsoft the corporation; not the people employed by Microsoft. Can words on paper employ people by their own volition? Can these words alone be evil? If not then when you refer to "Microsoft the corporation" you *are* referring to people, both employers and employees, who contract with each other for specific jobs and roles. When I was, like most adults and unlike most young kids (yet unbrainwashed by such crap), thinking like a collectivist, I may have fallen for that "Microsoft the corporation" thing and remained completely oblivious to the fact that thinking of Microsoft as an entity without people is pure fantasy. Human ability to contradict obvious reality and themselves never ceases to amaze me. Quoting:Merely believing Linux is better is enough. You don't have to either agree or disagree with the Free software philosophy, especially as espoused by the FSF. No argument there. All I was pointing out is that zealotry *can* develop quite well without MS being hostile in any way which undermines the integrity of Pete's arguments. If zealotry would have developed regardless of how MS acted towards Linux, then using MS's hostility as sole justification for such zealotry doesn't quite fly. Quoting:You're correct, but that doesn't change the fact that Microsoft has a documented history of evil behavior, which should be recognized and taken into account. I wasn't arguing against recognizing that anyway. It is an additional variable influencing the zealotry, but that's all it is. Quoting:With all due respect, and solely in my opinion, I think you may be seeing connections which simply don't exist. Which is, ironically, exactly the problem Roy seems to have. You wouldn't be saying that if I was allowed to expand on my point on that here. :P But without doing that I can see why you'd think that. Of course, the whole argument doesn't apply on those who don't profess to be supporters of freedom. If they don't want to cut down the tree of evil to begin with, it's completely irrelevant if they're hacking the branches or not. Let them run their treadmill as long as they like. But if your goal is freedom... well... it's a big discussion, much bigger than the FS and OSS movements none of which have the keys, just the practical remedies. LXer guidelines *currently* don't allow discussing the keys, only the remedies. Regards |
| jdixon Jul 22, 2009 10:41 PM EDT |
> If not then when you refer to "Microsoft the corporation" you *are* referring to people, both employers and employees, who contract with each other for specific jobs and roles. No. I'm referring to the collective entity of Microsoft the corporation. You don't refer to a car by it's individual parts, you call it a car. We can now more see the inner workings of Microsoft and how their actions come about then we can see the individual pistons of your average car engine working. All we can see is the end result. Thus, we refer to it as a separate entity. > ...then using MS's hostility as sole justification for such zealotry doesn't quite fly. True, but being wary of Microsoft isn't zealotry. > You wouldn't be saying that if I was allowed to expand on my point on that here. :P We'll have to take that as given, I guess. > But if your goal is freedom... well... it's a big discussion, much bigger than the FS and OSS movements none of which have the keys, just the practical remedies I don't think even RMS would disagree with that. It's precisely because the GPL has been a practical remedy that it's been successful. Sometimes practical remedies are the best we can do. And yes, further discussion of the "keys" would undoubtedly run afoul of the TOS, since it would eventually bring politics into the discussion. |
| Libervis Jul 22, 2009 11:18 PM EDT |
Sorry I'm just vary of collectivism.. extremely vary of it. I can concede to referring to Microsoft as a group of people sharing a particular type of contract, though I wouldn't call it a "collective entity" because that implies an existence of a being that is separate from the individuals in that group. People are rarely aware of it, but very easily slip into that kind of mythologizing, talking about groups of people as if a group was something other than those same people. This leads to big problems, generalizations and stereotypes being only the modest examples. So either you are calling Microsoft as this *mythical* entity evil or you're calling *everyone* who is working under a "Microsoft" flag, the whole group, as evil. The first is simply ridiculous and the second I can't agree with because it is a gross generalization. Oh and car parts aren't sentient beings. > Sometimes practical remedies are the best we can do. For most people "sometimes" is in fact "always", but they say "sometimes" to sound as if they're open to more fundamental solutions, even though they cry foul when such solutions are actually suggested as they're too invested in the status quo. > And yes, further discussion of the "keys" would undoubtedly run afoul of the TOS, since it would eventually bring politics into the discussion. Yep. |
| jdixon Jul 23, 2009 7:06 AM EDT |
> So either you are calling Microsoft as this *mythical* entity evil or you're calling *everyone* who is working under a "Microsoft" flag, the whole group, as evil. As I said, from our perspective, considering Microsoft as a single entity is the only way to deal with them. We can't see the inner workings of the company and assign blame/credit as appropriate. All we can see is the fictional corporate entity know as Microsoft. Yes, it's a fiction, but it's a very practical one, and one also assumed by our legal system. Consider it a practical remedy. > Oh and car parts aren't sentient beings Now you've done it. Do you have any idea what I'll have to do to get my car started this morning now that she knows you said that? She's very sensitive that way. :) In any case, since most cars now include things like temperature sensors and such, it could be argued that you're incorrect. Remember, sentient technically means awareness of your surroundings, not reasoning capablitly. |
| theboomboomcars Jul 23, 2009 9:12 AM EDT |
Libervis the actions that Microsoft has performed in the past are evil and since actions define what a thing is, Microsoft is evil. I would lump that evilness to those who make the decisions, since they decide what Microsoft does. The janitors, engineers, etc. that do not decide what Microsoft does cannot be included in that evilness, since they are an unknown. We cannot exclude them from being good or evil, because we do not know, but they are also irrelevant to the conversation since those who do not have influence on the actions of Microsoft cannot be held responsible for the actions they did not influence. It's just a lot less wordy to say Microsoft is evil, than those who influence the actions of Microsoft are evil. |
| Libervis Jul 23, 2009 9:19 AM EDT |
Hmm I still disagree it's the only way to deal with them. I use the word "Microsoft" as a shorthand for a group, not a fictional entity. Unless your goal is to generalize all individuals working under that flag, I don't really see a big problem with that. I think considering them for what they are would allow us to deal with them more reasonably. But enough beating on that horse. All I could probably say further on that would be repeating myself. I'm an individualist and I like thinking precisely, so I'll always favor terminology that goes beyond abstractions and into looking what *exactly* do they represent in reality. Being caught in abstractions is too good a way to believe in illusions. About your poor car, don't worry, her parts may sense reality around in limited ways, but are not self-aware so can't feel pain and indeed can't rationalize it. Add self awareness and capacity to think and act by own volition to sentience. Car parts aren't that. :P |
| Libervis Jul 23, 2009 9:21 AM EDT |
TheBoomBoomCars, that's fair. I'm only insisting on not generalizing. If you however clearly define that by Microsoft being evil you're referring to particular decision makers who boss the rest of the group around, then I can perfectly accept that because that's far different from saying that all people working under the MS flag are evil. Thanks |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 6:36 PM EDT |
*POOF*! Did somebody say Penguin Pete? Carla writes: "All of these folks sure have a lot of time to devote to character assassination and spreading FUD. It's almost like that's their real jobs." and then she writes: "Penguin Pete was absolutely horrid about the Tux500, and he slimed me once for something I forget now." Gee, could that be the time you wrote "Who Are The Real Friends of Linux and Free Software?" You know, where you character-assassinate anybody who doesn't worship Helios, your "evangelist" cause? It's almost like it's your real job! How soooooon we forget! I keep getting links to you pointed out to me, "she agrees with you here, here, and here.", etc. You're pretty good, you almost had me. I was almost moved to tearful forgiveness. Then I remember that all we have to do is change the employer from Microsoft to HeliOS solutions, and suddenly you turn coat. Now instead of Lefty stumping for Mono, we have Carla stumping for Helios' latest bake sale. Same shilling, different shirt. That's right, people, just keep trying to rationalize how Penguin Pete is this idiot savant who's accidentally right 99% of the time, but forever evil because of that one time he just happened not to buy your stupid plot. Just keep being like that monkey - you know, the one that they catch by drilling the little hole in the coconut shell and putting a rock in there and letting the monkey grab it? And then they can catch the monkey because he won't let go of what he thinks he has until he finds out what it is, and he won't find out what he had until he lets it go? You're invested to Helios, some of you for probably thousands by now after all these years. Shoot, be a shame to stop now and admit how savagely you've been had. I understand. I'm the safer target. Anyway, Carla, it's great for you that you get to wear a Penguin Pete mask and parrot my ideas when it suits your purpose. That way you get to regurgitate my ideas on your site about two months after I post them, while keeping me vilified for not helping your own buddy's scam. Great for your career there. Then go, "Oh what a shame about that unfortunate Tux500 business! Such a blot on an otherwise spotless record. Alas, we can't ignore it." Thanks, but no thanks. I can get by without your phony "agreeing." Pull my other leg - it plays Pachelbel's Canon in D. I can't believe it's been two years in here, the same dozen names still posting, nobody's new, nobody's left, nobody's grown, and it's still just your little clique Against The World. The Branch-Davidians weren't this insulated. Well, say goodbye to the Bad Guy. I'm just dropping by. *POOF!* Al Pacino in Scarface: "There's a bad guy comin'! You better get out of the way!" "ROFL - and I might add, LMAO." |
| tracyanne Jul 23, 2009 6:40 PM EDT |
Quoting:just keep trying to rationalize how Penguin Pete is this idiot savant who's accidentally right 99% of the time, but forever evil because of that one time he just happened not to buy your stupid plot. looks like there was a typo or two. |
| azerthoth Jul 23, 2009 6:46 PM EDT |
Funny Pete, I remember actually seeing the penguin on the car, dont know about you, but the plot seems on the other foot on that one. kthxbye |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 7:04 PM EDT |
> "I remember actually seeing the penguin on the car" The crashed car. Which made Linux a household name, exactly as you were promised. Worth every minute of going to war. I bet you buy every diet pill and weight-loss gimmick on the TV, don't you? "Hey, how can it be a scam? I got actual creme in a physical jar! It probably just so happens that it takes a lot more then one year to start taking cellulite off my thighs!" |
| jdixon Jul 23, 2009 7:23 PM EDT |
> change the employer from Microsoft to HeliOS solutions, and suddenly you turn coat. Now instead of Lefty stumping for Mono, we have Carla stumping for Helios' latest bake sale. That's your problem Pete. If you can't see the obvious differences between Ken and Microsoft, you're completely clueless when it comes to understanding people. > ...just keep trying to rationalize how Penguin Pete is this idiot savant who's accidentally right 99% of the time, but forever evil because of that one time he just happened not to buy your stupid plot. I'd say you're right about 75% of the time, from what I've seen. And not buying something isn't the same thing as calling someone a crook. > You're invested to Helios, some of you for probably thousands by now after all these years. More like about $50 over 3 years, if that. :) You know something? He still thanks me personally for each contribution. And $10 of that was to the specific project you opposed, thanks entirely to your actions. > Shoot, be a shame to stop now and admit how savagely you've been had. Proof, please. I can drive down to Austin and find the folks he's been giving computers to. Can you produce anything equivalent supporting your assertions? ... I didn't think so. > ...nobody's left, Unfortunately not true, though it wasn't voluntary. But then, you don't really care about the people behind the screen names, do you? > The Branch-Davidians weren't this insulated. And you would just love to play the role of Janet Reno, wouldn't you? > Well, say goodbye to the Bad Guy. I'm just dropping by. *POOF!* Promises, promises. Are you still blocking links from LXer, BTW? > The crashed car. Which made Linux a household name, exactly as you were promised. It was worth every penny I spent on it. Heck, just irritating you was worth every penny. Thanks for stopping by and reminding me that, while you do get some things right, you're still the same old jerk you always were. There, but for the grace of God... |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 7:33 PM EDT |
> "Are you still blocking links from LXer, BTW?" Now I am again, yes. When I upgraded my site, I looked at the old blocklist in .htaccess and said, "screw it, fresh slate" and deleted it. Then comments here were all "Well, I guess that greedy money-grubber wants the traffic for his Google ad after all!" Fine, be that way. Nobody from here deserves to see anything I do anyway. I don't know what I'll do without those six clicks at $0.0000073 per year, but I'll just struggle through somehow. |
| theboomboomcars Jul 23, 2009 7:39 PM EDT |
I love my tux500 t-shirt, even if the car crashed. It also sparks conversations about it. I would agree with jdixon, the tux500 project was not a scam, or even a flop. Helios is also a great guy, though when my wife and I had lunch with him he did seem a bit worn around the edges. But he has definitely had a hard life. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 7:45 PM EDT |
> "I love my tux500 t-shirt, even if the car crashed. It also sparks conversations about it." Check. So you haven't heard about screen-printing shops, where you can just walk in and get anything printed on anything (well, anything made of fabric anyway) for about $10? through CafePress you can even get that without leaving your chair. Print up as many as you want, send your kids to school in them, hand them out at the church clothing charity, walk your dog in a Tux sweater... No, that wouldn't do. You had to pay $600,000 to a guy who took your money and told you what he would do with it. Oh, and it was worth ostracizing the entire Linux community just for a Tshirt. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 8:01 PM EDT |
You know, since I'm seeing so much denial in here, let's run it the other way. Racecar fans and computer geeks are two such diverse cultures that it should work the other way. Here's the same deal in reverse: Let's find a bunch of racecar fans who all rally around this underdog racing team that's not represented a lot, and offer to sell them a promotional desktop theme (default background, logo on the login screen, etc.) dedicated to their racing team on our next Linux distro. Work them for drama. Tell them that the more they donate, the bigger the logo gets. Tell them that the distro must launch next month. Post in every forum, chat, mailing list, and bulletin board you can find at the end of a Google search for "racecar". Tell them that if they don't donate more money, they don't love their team enough. Promise that this will make their team world-famous. After two weeks, let them have a one-hour chat with one of the developers writing the distro. At three weeks, start a "competition" between states and egg georgia not to let Florida beat them in donations. At four weeks, dangle the prospect that some other racing team might buy space on this coveted, exclusive distro. On "launch day", Gimp their racing team's logo onto a cloned 'buntu, put it up on a server, leave it there for 24 hours, and take it down. Now none of the racing fans will be able to say it's a scam, since any of the others will say, "But it WASN'T a SCAM! There was a REAL distro on an ACTUAL server! I've seen screenshots! I FTP'd the distro for a minute! I talked to one of the programmers!" Since everybody here insists that the previously discussed event was legit, nobody should have any qualms about doing this deal and charging as much money as we can get away with. So, who's in? |
| Sander_Marechal Jul 23, 2009 8:10 PM EDT |
@Pete, either produce proof or stop posting here about Tux500. I am fed up with your libelous attitude. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 8:18 PM EDT |
> "your libelous attitude" And another person who doesn't know what libel means checks in. Thanks, I know the law. PS ALSO Let's not forget who started it. If what I've posted about this ring is libel, then aaaaaaaaalllllll the B.S. posted here for the past two years about me counts as much, much more libel. Except neither one does, because this isn't what libel is. |
| azerthoth Jul 23, 2009 8:33 PM EDT |
hmm, pete, a little help for you. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/libel |
| bigg Jul 23, 2009 8:40 PM EDT |
How about if LXer just bans you and then you can't spread manure? |
| theboomboomcars Jul 23, 2009 8:45 PM EDT |
Quoting:No, that wouldn't do. You had to pay $600,000 to a guy who took your money and told you what he would do with it. Oh, and it was worth ostracizing the entire Linux community just for a Tshirt. My shirt cost $13.00 not $600,000. Ken was upfront about what the money was for and I decided that I wanted to support it, so I bought the shirt. I didn't ostracize anybody by buying a T-shirt. I support projects I think are worth supporting. If they sell swag, then that is just a bonus. I would agree your statements don't really constitute libel, but are slander because you are spewing knowingly false statements to damage Ken's reputation. You know I didn't $600,000 for my shirt, and Ken has been open, especially in respects to tux500, about what the money is used for. Tux500 was to put tux on a racecar, and that is what the project did, we even got more for our money than what the original deal was. We got a bigger tux on the car than what we could afford. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 8:51 PM EDT |
And since everybody always posts a string of replies addressed to me after I come and go, then complains because I hang around to respond to them, I'm watching this thread now. BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO SEE THIS MATTER ENDED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. Two. years. Later. Members of this website brings me up more than the rest of the net put together, except of course for my own site. Funny, for people who say they can't stand me, you all sure can't seem to quit me. I must be the first thing you all think of when you wake up in the morning or something. Is my picture taped to your bedroom ceilings? This either gets resolved as "Pete's right, Cult of Helios wrong" and it ends there. OR: My name is NEVER TO BE BROUGHT UP BY ANY MEMBER, PAST OR PRESENT OR FUTURE, OF LXER.COM AGAIN. I am not to be quoted, referred to, imitated, addressed, referenced, or invoked, here on this site, nor any other site by this site's members, under any alias any member of this site chooses to use. Zip. Because I *do* know the law. There are other laws that I *could* use against the LXer cabal or whatever you are. Cyber Harassment, for instance. Plagiarism, in the case of copying and imitating, for another. Two years, I've generously let this go many times over, and you people keep it up month after month after month after month after month after month after month... This got ridiculous a long time ago. Even babies outgrow behaviors faster than that. Even Helios himself dropped it - heck even Helios himself admitted that Tux500 wasn't the best of ideas. Now, I'm a busy person, but I'm giving myself a day off just to dally here. I won't be able to do that very often. Given the long gaps between the occasions when you people ever hear from me, that should be apparent. But remember that it only takes a Google to catch up on what your whole crew has been up to. I'm the hottest topic on LXer.com, and when I notice and come in here stating my piece like a mature adult, and you folks all go back to slinging poop out of your diapers again. I'm doing this now for your good just as much as for mine. Your preoccupation with me, if I am truly your sworn enemy, is unhealthy as well as wrong. Resolve it, and you will feel better. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 8:59 PM EDT |
@ boomboomcars - $600,000 was as high as the price tag demanded by the extortion campaign. Tux500 is archived at the Wayback Machine and I have screenshots. @ bigg - One threat after another. Are you in charge? What do you hope to accomplish? You have no leg to stand on. LXer.com has not stopped posting slander of me in 28 months. If push came to shove, I have ample room to sue, own the site as a claimed asset, and kick YOU out. So what? Typical cowards. Want to start all the fights, don't want me to finish them. Post my name so much here, you might as well rename it "PenguinPetes2.com" and complain when I come in here to ask "what's up?" Obsessed with me? Well here I am baby! |
| theboomboomcars Jul 23, 2009 9:01 PM EDT |
You were mentioned in this post as someone who for the most part is constructive, but on occasion you get things wrong, blow them out of proportion, etc, kinda like here. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 9:05 PM EDT |
@ boomboom I can read, thanks, boomie. I didn't qualify it as "only positive things about me", either. I said "My name is NEVER TO BE BROUGHT UP BY ANY MEMBER, PAST OR PRESENT OR FUTURE, OF LXER.COM AGAIN." - in any context, good bad anything. I count "praise" from braggarts who assassinate my character to be harassment all the same. |
| TxtEdMacs Jul 23, 2009 9:08 PM EDT |
RE: "Penquin Pete" Who the hell is s/he? I am new here. Oops, I guess that breaches the condition of exit: Quoting:My name is NEVER TO BE BROUGHT UP BY ANY MEMBER, PAST OR PRESENT OR FUTURE, OF LXER.COM AGAIN.Oh, well let's make the best of it. Hi. Pete glad to make your acquaintance, but are you always this feisty? Your Buddy Txt. |
| theboomboomcars Jul 23, 2009 9:10 PM EDT |
Pete I like the irony, thanks. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 9:18 PM EDT |
@ TxtEdMacs Nice try, but you've been here long enough to submit 42 stories, you know all about me from the chatter here. "are you always this feisty?" No. I'm not feisty at all. I just saw the Penguin Pete Signal in the sky over LXer, since it never gets turned off, and dropped by while I have a free minute between projects. I'm actually doing you all a favor. ME!!! THE MOST FAMOUS PERSON ON LXER.COM!!! APPEARING TONIGHT, IN PERSOOOOOON! Just this night alone is enough to make sure that this little sewing circle of gossip queens and drama divas doesn't run out of something to talk about by the year 2068. Where's Dave Whitinger? He should be selling tickets. This is just like Elvis rising from the grave to visit Graceland. |
| gus3 Jul 23, 2009 9:19 PM EDT |
Cripes, you might as well put a big red button out with a sign next to it, saying DO NOT PUSH THE BIG RED BUTTON. |
| jdixon Jul 23, 2009 9:40 PM EDT |
> This either gets resolved as "Pete's right, Cult of Helios wrong" and it ends there. Hmm, I guess it's or else time then. > My name is NEVER TO BE BROUGHT UP BY ANY MEMBER, PAST OR PRESENT OR FUTURE, OF LXER.COM AGAIN. Yeah, right. You have these delusions of godhood often? > Two years, I've generously let this go many times over, and you people keep it up month after month after month after month after month after month after month... Well, delusions at least. I think this is the first time I've mentioned your name since I last emailed Ken about not too long before the race. And, ironically, I was trying to be complimentary. > Because I *do* know the law. In your dreams. > ...heck even Helios himself admitted that Tux500 wasn't the best of ideas. Gee, you think? I only gave the $10 because you were being such a jerk. It was a silly stunt, but it was an honest stunt. You wouldn't know honestly if someone wrapped it around a baseball bat and clubbed you over the head with it. > I won't be able to do that very often. Again, promises, promises. > I'm the hottest topic on LXer.com ... and when I notice and come in here stating my piece like a mature adult ... .if I am truly your sworn enemy... If push came to shove, I have ample room to sue ... Obsessed with me?... Like I said, delusional. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 9:45 PM EDT |
@gus3 Well, do this: Click your cursor at the top of this page. Now hit Ctrl-F and type "Pete" in the text box. Now keep hitting 'next' until you find the point where I logged in to join the thread. I count six before I enter with a *POOF* It's kind of like Candyman. When Candyman pays attention, that is. My celebrity here is ongoing for two years and four months, I'm on LXer about meeeeh six days out of that time period. I get this much attention here whether I show up or not. Be sure to go to Google and use "site:LXer.com " plus any combination of my various nicks which I am AKA on this site, including "Penguin" "Pete" "PP" "Pee Pete" "Weewee Pete" "Stinky Pete" and so on. Many other tediously unimaginative schoolyard taunts appear here as well. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 9:48 PM EDT |
@jdixon aaaaaaaaaawwwww I miss you too. I forget, were you the one who threatened to take my knee joints out with a baseball bat, or were you the one who was going to buy my hometown newspaper so you could run a frontpage photo about what a party-pooper I am? |
| gus3 Jul 23, 2009 9:54 PM EDT |
@PP: I've been bad-mouthed elsewhere (under a different name, so don't bother looking for this one to find it). And I've hardly felt the compulsion to respond to it. Some of it was true, and some of it was best proven false by keeping silence. |
| jdixon Jul 23, 2009 10:00 PM EDT |
> I forget, were you the one who threatened to take my knee joints out with a baseball bat, or were you the one who was going to buy my hometown newspaper so you could run a frontpage photo about what a party-pooper I am? Pete, you're not worth the trouble to threaten with violence, and I've never wanted to be in the newspaper business. Besides, I only threaten people if think they're rational enough for it to do some good. You know, for someone who swears he knows how often his name was mentioned, you're awfully skimpy on the details. Especially since any comments I've made about you on LXer are, as you so "kindly" pointed out, a simple Google search away. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 10:11 PM EDT |
And don't forget: NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED! Certainly wasn't any of *my* money that was at risk from Helios. Despite his efforts, Helios sucks at publicity, so there wasn't even any danger of damage to reputation to my beloved FOSS movement. Helios is reviled on most sites where he is known - (of course, you'd all argue that. You argue everything. But it's true). Nope, I just saw a high price, got sticker shock, saw an absolute waste of that money it was being put to, saw people being harassed, threatened, and extorted into giving money, saw dozens of good friends being hurt in the name of extracting more blood from their vein by the Tux500 Mafia, and stepped in to say... here, let's repost the historic First Post: ______________________________________________________ I don't even post a link to it, because you'd almost have to be dead not to have seen it somewhere already. If you haven't seen it yet, a simple Google of "tux500" will do. This is the project where two bloggers have started a massive campaign to raise $350,000 to put a Tux sticker on the side of a car that will be racing in the Indy 500. It smells fishy. I have no proof. Just a gut feeling trained by street smarts. If my gut were to be wrong this time, it'd be a first. Warning signs: * Very short time span to raise the money. A year-long campaign might show some credibility, as in somebody actually thought it out. * Questionable application. There are thousands of forms of advertising which are cheaper and more effective than a sticker on a race car. And how many racing fans even use computers? * Not a single commercial distro backing them. No Red Hat, Ubuntu, Mandriva, no distro with the deep pockets to make this a realistic goal is saying a peep about it. IBM did a Linux Superbowl ad in 2004, after all. * Most damning of all, the same two bloggers are doing plenty of racing on their own... from forums to blogs to newsgroups posting the link and hyping the venture everywhere. Google it and study it! First one posts on LXer, then the other one links to the LXer story to prove it's legit. Aliases are employed, but it's still the same two, you can tell from the writing. * Everybody besides the two bloggers sounds suspicious just like I do. * No mention is made of who gets the money if the project flops. So, as JWZ would put it, I am asking the "Lazyweb": Do you think it's for real? Is there anybody with inside information on racing who even knows if this is possible? Are there any stories on watchdog sites flagging it? Note that I am NOT asking those two bloggers - I'm asking everybody else. Those two bloggers should now know better then to post a *single* *word* in this thread - I'll be watching. I'm asking only people who won't be handling the money! ______________________________________________________ There is the original text of the first post as it appeared 04/16/07 01:20:24 am. The initial price tag was $350,000 - it climbed higher by the end. The "two bloggers" were of course helios and devnet. Guess who showed up within minutes to bawl me out for the AUDACITY? You know what would have happened if the initial post had gone UNATTACKED by the people running Tux500? It would have sat for a day, maybe a couple of commenters would have come by, we all would have shrugged and gone "meh!" and moved along placidly to the next topic. Which would have been my first GPL'ed Flash project, as I recall. Folks, I joke a lot, but I will tell you now that I am serious as a hangman: Within 48 hours, I was getting physical threats in my email. For. Asking. A. Question. At which point, I decided I'd better stick it out. I have a nerve or two, I can take it. Who knew what other intimidation other people had to face? This was reaching all the way to countries on the other side of the world. So that's why I stuck with it. Because I am brave for those who cannot be. So we see two outcomes: (a) Ever heard of the Streisand effect? You're still seeing it 48 months later. (b) My eternal punishment for my good deed: To be dragged through the mud for all eternity by all of you. It was worth it. I'd do it all again. |
| bigg Jul 23, 2009 10:26 PM EDT |
> LXer.com has not stopped posting slander of me in 28 months. That's a pretty serious accusation. Do you have evidence? > What do you hope to accomplish? Let's see, I wrote, "How about if LXer just bans you and then you can't spread manure?" If you honestly can't figure out what I hope to accomplish, you're not even smart enough to be a Windows troll. |
| dinotrac Jul 23, 2009 10:27 PM EDT |
Wow. I get all busy and Old PeePee checks back in. Claims to know the law now. Good for him. Guess he'll be prepared the next time he libels somebody -- which, by the way, he did to Ken WRT the Tux 500 thing. FWIW, PeePee, nobody here thinks you're an idiot savant. Idiot know-not, perhaps. |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 10:35 PM EDT |
@dinotrac Yeah, I'm the kind of guy, see, I don't say anything about anybody that I wouldn't say to their face. Since you guys seen to have a real hard problem doing that, I figured I'd make an exception tonight out of the 840 days since LXer started the Penguin Pete Gossip Club to come here and be insulted in person. Just for the sheer novelty. Thanks for reminding me, yes, "PeePee" is another one of my LXer-bestowed aliases. I say, where do you come up with such stinging wit? Did a book accidentally find its way to Texas? |
| Penguin_Pete Jul 23, 2009 11:07 PM EDT |
@Everybody Well, this has been the usual kind of signature, disappointing LXer experience. It's about nighty-night time over at the igloo. Much as I *adore* spending time with my favorite sworn blood enemies, I have company of a much higher caliber to keep. Well, I've left you all plenty here to read and obsess over. Do be sure to thoroughly scan the reply I made two up from this one, the one where I recount How It All Started. I don't wish what has happened to me on any of you. Because I know none of you have the balls to endure what you so cheerfully dish out to me. |
| dinotrac Jul 23, 2009 11:16 PM EDT |
Ah, PeePee, you're in rare form. Oh wait, that's as good as it gets. Some things never change. And I would happily say everything I've ever written to your face. The truth is the truth is the truth, and one should never shy away from it. That's the kind of guy I am. |
| tracyanne Jul 23, 2009 11:36 PM EDT |
The Linux community sure as h@ll has it's share of jerks and paranoids. It's an interesting world. |
| tracyanne Jul 24, 2009 1:49 AM EDT |
I figured that since this thread was already hijacked. http://crap.teurasporsaat.org/archive/5851.jpg |
| tuxchick Jul 24, 2009 2:07 AM EDT |
**munch munch** Popcorn, anyone? |
| TxtEdMacs Jul 24, 2009 8:06 AM EDT |
Wow ... Quoting: ... you're not even smart enough to be a Windows troll[!]But I am!!! MS, quick send me my checks and i will cover LXer and other sites shilling and astroturfing like mad for you. I am much better than the low paid amateurs you are using here now. YBT |
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