Why is transparency such a desirable feature?
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| mrider Dec 01, 2010 1:25 PM EDT |
From the article:
Quoting:Guake features transparency... I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious. I find transparency to be distracting. The difficulty of telling what's in the foreground versus background just doesn't work for me. Similarly, I wouldn't want a book that was printed on waxed paper. I'll admit that the screen shot images featuring programs using transparency always look impressive, it just doesn't seem practical. So if you use transparency - why? In what way does it help you? |
| Steven_Rosenber Dec 01, 2010 1:46 PM EDT |
I guess it's different and new. Ubuntu has it. Looking new and different keeps a certain segment of the user base interested. I'm running Debian Squeeze right now, and it looks pretty much just like Debian Lenny. I'm going for functionality, so I don't mind, but there are certainly design and configuration differences between vanilla GNOME and what distros such as Ubuntu and Mint are putting out there. The thing is that a user can modify a huge number of parameters on their desktop to make it look completely different. But it's nice to start out with something ultra-modern, I suppose. I personally don't have time to do all of that, and I suspect I'm not alone, hence the choices that Ubuntu makes definitely have a ready audience. |
| mrider Dec 01, 2010 1:55 PM EDT |
I suppose it's worthwhile if the only practical use is to get users to try something other than Windows... |
| hkwint Dec 01, 2010 3:12 PM EDT |
I think it's mostly a showcase for new graphical systems / drivers and hardware. The only application I could think of, would be manually copying / retyping text. Of course, retyping text shouldn't be necessary when using a computer. But as long as there's dreaded proprietary standards (that's YOU AutoDesk!) and lack of global standards (that's YOU imperial system!) there will still be people like me replicating work / counting stuff by hand / doing dumb file/ unit conversions and being paid for it. |
| mortenalver Dec 01, 2010 5:42 PM EDT |
The default transparency of window borders on Windows 7 is a good example. It makes the window titles less clear by mixing in elements from below the windows, and clarity should be a priority. Fortunately, it's easy to turn off the transparency. They also did something strange with the highlighting in the task bar, which uses colors based on the programs' icons, in effect leading to the highlighting getting a random color for each program. In my opinion, different colors should only be used in interface elements if they mean something - in this case the colors just cause confusion. |
| tuppp Dec 01, 2010 8:07 PM EDT |
@mrider "Why is transparency such a desirable feature?" It depends on the type of transparency. "Real" transparency can be helpful if you have multiple windows overlapping -- a smaller window that is completely obscured by a larger window might not get lost. "Pseudo" transparency usually only let's one "see" the root window/wallpaper behind the transparent window, so this type of transparency is less useful. @Steven_Rosenber "I guess it's different and new... it's nice to start out with something ultra-modern, I suppose." Huh? I started using transparent Aterms and Wterms over eight years ago. I think that transparency in terminal emulators first appeared in 1998. |
| tracyanne Dec 01, 2010 8:08 PM EDT |
I've never been able to understand why transparency is such a desirable attribute for windows on a computer desktop. |
| ComputerBob Dec 01, 2010 11:48 PM EDT |
If you think transparent windows are cool, take a look at a Mac notebook with a transparent screen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Eg1gmf3c58 ;) |
| JaseP Dec 01, 2010 11:52 PM EDT |
Ugh,... Haven't any of you ever tried and to follow a procedure for a set of command line instructions and been annoyed by having to either cut & paste or page back and forth between active applications??? Being able to see through the open terminal console is a blessing. The "eye-candy" actually has its uses. It is not always obvious at first glance, but trust me, it's there. I often use the 3D cube rotate to make sure that I'm on the right screen of my touchscreen net-book while taking hand-written notes... Just because it's pretty doesn't mean it's not useful. |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 02, 2010 2:03 AM EDT |
Quoting:Haven't any of you ever tried and to follow a procedure for a set of command line instructions and been annoyed by having to either cut & paste or page back and forth between active applications??? Don't maximize your terminal and put it on top of the instructions. Better: have your tiling window manager put the windows next to each other. |
| tracyanne Dec 02, 2010 2:23 AM EDT |
Quoting:Haven't any of you ever tried and to follow a procedure for a set of command line instructions and been annoyed by having to either cut & paste or page back and forth between active applications??? Being able to see through the open terminal console is a blessing. Yes I have, it's actually rather simple, either pin the source Window (as always on top) and simply copypaste to the destination window, or if screen real estate is a bit limited pin the source window and scroll it so that only the title bar is available. when you need to copy text from it scroll it open again. it's really very simple, and transparency is not needed, nor does transparency make copy/paste any more efficient.. |
| tracyanne Dec 02, 2010 2:33 AM EDT |
Quoting:The "eye-candy" actually has its uses. It is not always obvious at first glance, but trust me, it's there. I often use the 3D cube rotate to make sure that I'm on the right screen of my touchscreen net-book while taking hand-written notes... I don't use the desktop cube, because you have to actually spin it to locate the desktop you want. I use the desktop wall I can see all the desktops I have configured, in one go (all 9 of them) and can see immediately which one I want. Even better, these days I also use the DockBarX applet in place of the GNOME Window List applet. I get multiple previews, 1 for each window of any application I have running (Firefox, for example where I have Multiple Profiles and Multiple Windows for each Profile), and I simply select the window I want, and I'm taken to the dektop that window is open on. So I can open any application, move it to any of my 9 desktops, and when I want that application, simply mouse click on the DockBarX preview, and go to the Desktop the application is running on. I also have a couple of applications that open their windows automatically on a predefined desktop when I load the application, then it's simply a matter of, once again, mouse clicking on the DockBarX preview.. etc. |
| gus3 Dec 02, 2010 7:45 AM EDT |
Quoting:Don't maximize your terminal and put it on top of the instructions. Better: have your tiling window manager put the windows next to each other.Both suggestions alter the window geometry (and the output format). I just capture the output to a temp file, and then use a text editor (such as gedit) to get a "safe" copy-able format. |
| jacog Dec 02, 2010 9:29 AM EDT |
Pffff, you single monitor noobs. :) |
| JaseP Dec 02, 2010 10:25 AM EDT |
It's tough to have dual monitors on a convertible touchscreen tablet ;) ... @ Tracyanne: Sure it can be done other ways, but that doesn't mean the effects aren't useful. Let me give you another example, one that's harder to refute; on screen input like Onboard or CellWriter. If you are using a touch screen (or even a pen input tablet), especially when you have limited screen real estate, transparency allows you to see through the input layer onto what you are writing (or typing) to. I've tried the same input tools without transparency. Believe me, it's like pulling teeth. In fact, I'm handwriting this right now in CellWriter on the touchscreen of my Gigabyte M912m convertible netbook. Another, similar use is with dialog boxes. Compiz can (easily) be set to make all or just certain dialog boxes transparent. This is useful with tool boxes (like with drawing or desktop publishing apps) or when the boxes control something in the window of the app that spawned them (as with video playback controls or the solar system browser in Celestia). It's also useful with alert pop-ups (net connectivity status, volume indicators & software phone alerts). As for the desktop cube, you can actually create on-screen controls that run a script to rotate them. Plus, whatever docking bar you have set up (be it the Gnome panel applet or something like Cairo-dock) can be made to return you to the desktop the particular app you want resides on. In short, there are too many uses for the effects to be dismissive of them. And, with modern GPUs (on just about every system, from embedded to desktop with built-in video, in the last 8-10 years), the use of compositing actually off-loads computing bandwidth from the CPU. So, barring show-stopping bugs, there is little reason to have compositing turned off. But since PC stands for "PERSONAL Computer," if you don't like a particular effect, or it does nothing for you, just turn it off. PS: One of these days, I'd like to make a YouTube video of my systems' GUI interface that I've set up. It would really illustrate what I'm talking about. I think it's one of those things you have to see in action to appreciate. |
| mrider Dec 02, 2010 12:10 PM EDT |
Interesting conversation. Just to be clear, I'm not personally against 3D effects or eye candy (not that I'm dominating this conversation). I'm another person that rather likes the cube effect - it sort of helps my "visual" brain keep track of where I am. I also like the "magic genie" window minimize effect, because it gives me an image of where my window went. I guess I'm with tracyanne as far as transparency goes: I always tile the window, or pin the window, or whatever. But it is very interesting to hear your use JaseP - that's why I asked. :) |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 02, 2010 4:36 PM EDT |
Quoting:Pffff, you single monitor noobs. :) Nope. Got two. Saving up for a third 'cause two ain't enough :-) |
| tracyanne Dec 02, 2010 5:35 PM EDT |
Quoting:Sure it can be done other ways, but that doesn't mean the effects aren't useful. Let me give you another example, one that's harder to refute; on screen input like Onboard or CellWriter. That certainly is harder to refute, and you may have actually found a use for transparency. I don't have a touch screen device, so I can't find a better way, or even try your way. @jacog: 2 monitors on my main machine. The laptop's monitor plus an external monitor, both monitors 1920 pixel width, so I stack the second monitor above the laptop monitor. |
| gus3 Dec 02, 2010 6:16 PM EDT |
Transparency in a window manager may have limited use beyond the "wow!" factor, but it's a good place to put it as an option. Once it's working there, it can serve as a demonstration for how to use transparency in other projects. |
| JaseP Dec 02, 2010 6:34 PM EDT |
@gus3: One nice use is in photo display managers. The 3D photo manager in Android changes the pictures with full composited effects. Maybe it's not an efficient use of system resources, but it sure looks great. And that can contribute towards a higher WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). |
| jacog Dec 03, 2010 5:13 AM EDT |
Don't use transparency for anything m'self. Zooming with the mouse wheel, however.... |
| hkwint Dec 03, 2010 1:01 PM EDT |
JaseP:Quoting:PS: One of these days, I'd like to make a YouTube video of my systems' Would be a nice LXer article! If you write some short comment on what's in the vid, I'm sure Scott, Sander or yours sincerely are willing to help you. After all, anyone who wants can contribute stories to LXer. |
| gus3 Dec 03, 2010 7:42 PM EDT |
Bonus points for an Ogg Theora video instead of Flash. |
| mrider Dec 03, 2010 8:01 PM EDT |
Quoting:Bonus points for an Ogg Theora video instead of Flash. Seconded. |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!