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Replacing KDE4 with Xfce
Reference: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/198639/index.html "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein. Introduction Many LXer readers will be aware of my previous three articles in which I described software operational problems that emerge when using a recent version of the KDE4 desktop manager (see Reference). In those articles, I explained (with illustrating screen captures) how the integration of the increasingly complex semantic desktop into KDE4 has dramatically altered some of KDE4's functions, and in my opinion to the overall detriment of the desktop manager. Although there was some dissent, my findings were strongly confirmed by comments on the attached threads to the articles, and also by numerous blogs and discussions on the subject contained in a plethora of internet sites. With respect to the dissent, there are numbers of KDE4 users who actually like the increased complexity of the semantic procedures of the KDE desktop manager. That's fine; I don't. I find KDE4's speed, flexibility, certain Unix operations, and personal choice to operate the software conventionally, have all been compromised due to that increased complexity. Those are my own impressions but they are shared by many other users. Conversely, other users who like what the KDE4 package has become, continue to protest that the software is excellent and use it as their desktop manager. I may disagree with their views, but I strongly support their right to use whatever software they choose. I made it very plain in my Part 2 summary that I did not expect the KDE teams to take any notice of either my suggestions or comments on the matter; they are continuing to produce a large and complex semantic desktop and if you install KDE4, that's the default package - whether it's the current Nepomuk or the proposed "Baloo". I also indicated that I was considering other options once my present desktop of KDE4.6 running on openSUSE 11.4 was no longer supported by the Evergreen project. KDE4.6 is the last version of KDE4 in which the desktop manager's KDEPIM data is almost completely controlled by conventional Unix commands and it remains simple, fast and very effective. As far as I am aware, the KDE4.6 software packages that I use daily (such as KMail), have not been disrupted in any way either by semantic desktop procedures or additional security packages. If you don't want (or like) the size and complexity of the KDE4 semantic desktop, the easiest and (possibly the best ?) way forward is to reject KDE4 completely (rather than attempt modifications) and use an alternative desktop manager. Such an alternative should offer a simpler and higher speed desktop environment which produces far less stress on the CPU, the hard disk drive and memory; it should also offer an easy ability to be configured to personal requirements and be able to run desired software. There is also the fact that many Linux users take a real pride in being able to run older hardware that is obsolete as far as Windows is concerned, but which can obtain a new lease of life under a suitable Linux distribution. KDE4 (in my opinion anyway), is now "pricing itself out of that market" by its increased demands on hardware. The parallel with Windows is all too obvious. With these things in mind, I very quickly focused on two desktop managers that might provide the desired desktop: Xfce and Trinity. Since I prefer to use openSUSE as the underlying operating system and Xfce is one of the desktop manager options fully supported by openSUSE installations, Xfce was an obvious first choice for consideration. This article will consider the Xfce desktop manager from the perspective of a KDE4 user and it is addressed to all those KDE4 users who feel similarly frustrated with the development direction KDE4 has taken. Equipment The test computer was a Toshiba Satellite L840 laptop (quad core, 2.5GigHz). A formatted Seagate 500Gigbyte hdd was used as the storage medium and openSUSE 13.1 with Xfce ver. 4.10 was installed from a dvd without any internet connection. The installation proceeded smoothly using the automatic configuration option offered by the installation media and the only minor selections made were to use local time, prevent automatic log-in and ensure that separate passwords were required for both user and root. Eventually, a more or less standard log-in screen was presented and on inserting the password, the Xfce desktop was reached. The laptop was then connected to the internet and a full patch update was applied. Preliminary Notes I want to stress at the outset that this article is not intended to be a full tutorial set on using Xfce. That would require considerably more time and effort than I can devote to such a project, however the following information should provide a reasonable guide to what one can expect, and in addition, suggest some of the major things that one can do with the desktop manager. It's really up to the user to have fun experimenting with this remarkably good DM. Previous users of KDE who have little or no experience of Xfce will often be surprised at how closely Xfce follows the operational protocols of KDE, but at much higher speeds. In fact, generally speaking, all KDE users, but especially those familiar with the KDE3.5 desktop, will feel right at home. First Views of the Xfce Desktop There are two default views for the desktop and one of these is shown in Figure 1 below. I didn't like the original openSUSE default and went for this much brighter alternative view.  Figure 1. One of the two default views for the Xfce desktop. When this desktop opens, there are just three icons on the desktop, Home, File System and Trash. There is very little difference between Home and File System other than Home always starts with the user's personal folder under the Home directory, while File System starts with the root directory and its folders. Xfce now has full "drag and drop" capability with its desktop icons (something it did not have a couple of years ago when I last looked at this desktop environment ) and as a result, its desktop can be set up in exactly the way the user wants it - icons everywhere, just a few, or none at all. As a personal preference, I always place the Trash icon in the lower right corner and it is a matter of a couple of seconds to drag and drop the icon to the desired location. I'd mention that the Trash icon plays exactly the same role in Xfce as KDE - you delete a file in the file manager and it appears in the Trash folder. A right click on the Trash icon opens a sub-menu and you can either delete all Trash items permanently or open the Trash folder to check on individual files and restore them if necessary. The "drag and drop" capability also allows you to put frequently used application launching icons on the main desktop, if that is how you like it. An example of this is the new icon in the top right corner for LibreOffice. This application launching icon was copied from the Application Launcher menu using the drag and drop method and this very welcome capability of Xfce corresponds exactly to similar actions in KDE. The speaker button on the panel has the usual slide volume control. There is no actual mute box for selection; just drag the slide button down to the bottom and the control indicates that the system is now muted. Desktop settings are accessed in the same way as the KDE settings are obtained: place the cursor in the main desktop area, right click and select whatever you wish from the drop down menu that appears. You can alter brightness, colour saturation, etc. etc. The Application Launcher and the Panel The panel is placed at the bottom of the screen. It's size and contents are very easily modified. Place the cursor in a blank area of the panel and right click. A sub-menu will appear which will provide you with a choice to alter the height of the panel and other aspects including which icons appear in the panel. The number of virtual desktops is controlled by other settings which will be covered later in this article. The Application Launcher button is at the extreme left hand of the panel which is more or less standard for many desktop managers. Unlike KDE4's default menu, the default Xfce menu is similar to what the KDE4 desktop calls a "classic menu". It contains a number of items and in turn many of these items produce sub-menus. No image is provided for this menu in this article and it is left to the user to experiment. The main menu headings are: Accessories (which include archiving software, a search function and what appears to be a notepad, but apparently no calculator); Games (curiously, no card games such as patience, but a good selection including sudoku); Graphics (includes the Gimp and a pdf viewer); Internet (Firefox, Thunderbird and Pidgin, plus some others); Multimedia (Brassero for burning CDs and DVDs and Video for playing DVDs); Office (the full LibreOffice suite); Settings (a full management package for the Xfce desktop plus a link to YaST) and System (YaST). I have been informed that the calculator package is a function of the underlying OS, not Xfce, but it should be relatively simple to add a calculator from the openSUSE repository. Removable Memory Storage (usb sticks or optical disks) It is worth noting a special aspect of Xfce behaviour with respect to the use of both types of removable memory storage (usb sticks or optical disks). In KDE, insertion of a usb stick or a disk results in an icon appearing on the panel and an automatic menu which offers several options on what the user may require such as playing a video, opening a file manager, viewing images, etc. In Xfce, there is no icon placed on the panel. Instead, insertion of a usb stick or a disk results in the file manager opening automatically to display the contents of the storage medium, and a new icon is placed temporarily on the desktop. You can now manipulate the various files on the usb stick or optical disk, but when you are finished, the procedure is simply to close the file manager window. You now right click on the newly formed icon on the desktop area and in the drop down menu will be the option "Eject Volume". If this is selected, the usb stick can then be safely removed or the disk will be ejected and the desktop icon will immediately disappear. Managing Your Desktop and Your System First of all, this desktop manager is running on top of openSUSE 13.1 and as a result, the system manager is YaST. Virtually every aspect of system control can be accessed with this excellent software package. YaST will not be covered further here, unless necessary for specific items. The Application Launcher menu has an option called "Settings". If this option is selected, it leads to the desktop settings window shown in in Figure 2.  Figure 2. The Xfce Desktop Settings Manager. The headings in this window are fairly obvious as regards their meanings and it is left to the user to investigate the various options for configuring the Xfce desktop that are given here. For a high speed and slimmed down desktop, one is staggered by the available personal customisation and configuration that is made available with this desktop manager. Only a couple of small items are explored further here. First, if the user wants to use a double or single click of the mouse to activate a file, the relevant item in the Settings window is the File Manager icon. Select that icon and then the Behaviour tab. This will then display options that allow single or double clicks to be used, as well as speed for double clicks. Second, the Workspaces icon will allow you to set the number of virtual desktops. The File Manager, Thunar The file manager is reasonably good for simple operations such as copying, moving and deletion of files. Thunar does all of these very successfully and can also display the directory tree in a side panel. An image of Thunar is given in Figure 3.  Figure 3. The Thunar File Manager. To be honest, there is only one aspect missing from this piece of software that I do miss after having used KDE4's Dolphin and that is the ability to split the screen and work with two different directories on either side. This is very useful when you are working with your home directory and the directory on either an optical disk or a usb stick. However, you can get around this by opening two copies of Thunar, one for each of the devices you are manipulating and then dragging and dropping files in the usual way. Apart from that one lack, Thunar is a good standard file manager and can display either icon or tree views in the main window. The full directory address of the selected item is also displayed in the relevant area at the top of the display. There is one more tiny difference between Dolphin in KDE4 and Thunar......if you want to select a folder or file in Thunar, click anywhere on the folder or file icon; in KDE4, my experience is that you must click on the lower half of the relevant icon....Odd, but true. The Internet There are two principal ways of communicating using a computer and they are, of course, using emails and browsing. Xfce uses Thunderbird as a default email client and I have already given a starting guide to this excellent software package in my earlier article so I won't go any further into it here: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/198639/index.html Note: Before I start the next bit, I will be using the term "folder", however other readers may be using the term "directory" for the same purpose. I personally prefer to use the term folder for an item in the computer filing system which contains other files or even sub-folders with more files or folders in them as well. I reserve the term "directory" for the whole file and folder structure displayed in a file manager when you are looking at the complete collection of files and folders in the root directory, home directory or some other named directory containing many folders and files. It's just personal preference. Firefox is installed as the default browser and my only comment is that if you are already using Firefox in some other computer and have all sorts of tabs and links set up for your personal convenience, then you can transfer them straight over to your new Xfce setup very easily. The way I go about it is to copy across the ".mozilla" hidden folder from the previous computer. For anyone who has never done it before, open up the file manager at your personal home directory on that previous computer and from the menus (usually under "View"), tick the box that indicates hidden files will be displayed. Linux hides files and folders by putting a full stop (".") at the start of the file or folder name. You'll see lots of hidden folders at the top of the view, but scan or scroll down until you find the ".mozilla" folder and copy it across to a usb stick. Now use that stick to carry out the reverse procedure to your new Xfce installation: you copy the folder from the stick to the new Xfce home directory. (Don't forget you may have to set "view hidden files" for the stick as well.) If you have previously started Firefox to test it out on Xfce, there will already be a ".mozilla" folder present. Just overwrite it, or if you like, first delete it and then copy the new folder from the stick as a replacement. Don't remove the full-stop in front of the name "mozilla", because if you do, Firefox will NOT recognise the folder. Firefox will now run with all your usual tabs and settings. I would mention that it is always worth having a backup copy of that .mozilla folder somewhere, just in case. The other browser that many people like to use is Chrome. You can get this easily by searching for it using Firefox and Google. When you find the site and open it, you'll find a series of selections based on the system you are using (Debian, RedHat/Fedora/OpenSUSE, etc.) and whether you wish to use 32bit or 64bit versions. Make the selection and download the file. Usually, it installs automatically, but if it doesn't and ends up as an rpm zip file in the "Downloads" folder, then all you need to do is click on that file icon, insert your root password as required, and Chrome will install. It will need an internet connection while it is doing so. When Chrome is installed, it will offer to set its tabs in accordance with the settings now present in Firefox. I find it very useful to do this as it makes things much easier in the long run. I also find that Chrome seems to run, on average, faster than Firefox....but different users have different running shoes and you may find the opposite. Other internet software such as bit torrent packages and so forth can also be installed as required. New software is automatically added to the Xfce Launching Menu. Lastly, Some Amusement Most people enjoy watching films on their computers. One of the best movie players is VLC and it can be obtained either from the Packman repository or the openSUSE repository. If you use the former method, you will obtain a ".ymp" file and for openSUSE 13.1 the present file so labelled is defective. It does not contain instructions for openSUSE 13.1 and instead uses the term "Factory". If you edit that file and replace "Factory" with "13.1" it will then function provided you right click on the file and select the option that allows a ".ymp" file to install software. The alternative is to use the openSUSE repository which is much easier. Always check the software has been installed and in addition, make certain that a file called "libdvdcss2" has been installed. This file is crucial for decoding any current, standard dvd. If the installation has been successful, you will find that VLC will detect the drive with the optical disk in it as /sd0. Figure 4 displays VLC running on the test equipment.  Figure 4. VLC running on Xfce. Last Thoughts Xfce is undoubtedly different from KDE, but it is fast, simple and can be configured extensively to give a desktop that is comfortable for the user. It is quite easy to put a different desktop background in place of the present "blue mouse screen". All that is needed is a suitable sized image which is placed in the "Pictures" folder and then imported into the Xfce software. I have only examined a tiny portion of this desktop manager's capabilties....For instance, I have not looked at the CD/DVD burning software of Brassero, or considered adding an additional office package such as Apache Open Office, but I have no doubt the results will be satisfactory. I have installed Wine without any problems, but have not yet seriously tried to use the package. Nor have I trialled installing Crossover Office, which in my case is essential to have, due to my use of a particular Windows based accounting package and also a test bed copy of Microsoft Office. As I noted at the start of this article, KDE users should find it fairly easy to pick up this desktop manager and set it running in accordance with their preferences, but I also believe that any users transferring from other desktop managers (including Windows) will have little difficulty. Xfce's superior speed and simplicity win easily when compared with what I consider to be the complexity and comparatively sluggish behaviour of the KDE4 semantic desktop. Xfce is well worth a "test drive" and is recommended for consideration. My sincere compliments to the Xfce team. Post Script. It occurred to me after I had written the above, that I had given "prominence" to an "rpm-based" distribution. There are of course, Debian based distributions that use Xfce as well. One obvious Debian based example is Xubuntu which is Ubuntu with an integrated Xfce desktop manager. An installation of this software package proceeded very simply and although there are some differences in the desktop layout (the panel is at the top), the general protocols of the Xubuntu package are very similar to the openSUSE/Xfce combination. The only minor point is that the Xubuntu package seems to run more smoothly on the Toshiba laptop than the openSUSE/Xfce package - almost certainly due to differences in the graphical display requirements on AMD Radeon graphic hardware. A second example of an rpm-based system is Fedora Spins, which is a Fedora Xfce desktop. I have no experience of this particular package, however its home directory is given here: http://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/ I can well imagine that that the Spins Xfce version will be of interest to anyone who has a Fedora OS. A little exploration of the site indicates that both 32bit and 64bit versions are available. |
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Comments (75)
Text is all scrolled off my screen to the right
It's not a problem of the article ? On my laptop here, it loads up fine and all lines are well displayed.
I see the problem. The screenshot is wider than the column margins.
The fix in Seamonkey/Firefox is to disable the style sheet, under View/Page Style/No Style. Makes for dumb formatting, but the text will all be visible. It's the same fix for when preformatted text runs beyond the right margin.
The fix in Seamonkey/Firefox is to disable the style sheet, under View/Page Style/No Style. Makes for dumb formatting, but the text will all be visible. It's the same fix for when preformatted text runs beyond the right margin.
I built the article in a Chrome browser because of its better speed on my laptop, but I have just tried loading it with my latest version of Firefox and it displays just as well.....I hope the problem is sorted out because nothing like this has ever been reported with the other articles, and they were pretty similar......and I ain't changed nuthin' as regards the script defaults.
I see what's happening. The page views fine if you have a 1280 pixel or wider display. If you have a small
display (or have made your browser smaller than 1280 pixels) then clipping will be visible due to the large picture sizes.
This might be an issue for small screen devices like 1024 wide netbooks and some tablets.
It's really not a problem for me since I normally view with at least a 1600 pixel wide display, plus I like the large photos.
This might be an issue for small screen devices like 1024 wide netbooks and some tablets.
It's really not a problem for me since I normally view with at least a 1600 pixel wide display, plus I like the large photos.
>>>>>So I'm missing several words out of every line.
if you are using Firefox, like me, you can enable /View/Zoom/Zoom text only.
This solves the problem ( read:issue) for me.
>>>>It's not a problem of the article ?
Yes, it is, in the sense that this and previous articles are the only ones that have this behavior in a (my) full month's reading.W.o.w, it's one writer out of a hundred who formats like this.!
No. it is not a problem as there is a solution ( above ) with 2 clicks. 2 clicks are not a problem. They are 2 clicks only to start reading and 2 clicks to get back to what I am used to after reading.
>>>>because nothing like this has ever been reported with the other articles,
I noticed it in other articles as well, but didn't think of it as a problem. Just click-click click, and that's it.
Nice article. I think I give one or other XFCE a spin one of these days.
if you are using Firefox, like me, you can enable /View/Zoom/Zoom text only.
This solves the problem ( read:issue) for me.
>>>>It's not a problem of the article ?
Yes, it is, in the sense that this and previous articles are the only ones that have this behavior in a (my) full month's reading.W.o.w, it's one writer out of a hundred who formats like this.!
No. it is not a problem as there is a solution ( above ) with 2 clicks. 2 clicks are not a problem. They are 2 clicks only to start reading and 2 clicks to get back to what I am used to after reading.
>>>>because nothing like this has ever been reported with the other articles,
I noticed it in other articles as well, but didn't think of it as a problem. Just click-click click, and that's it.
Nice article. I think I give one or other XFCE a spin one of these days.
According to my KDE settings, I'm working in a 1280 x 800 pixel desktop, so you hit it in one penguinist.....sorry Francy, but there had never been any problems raised before, so I just went along as usual. I made sure that the largest image was only 700 pixels wide, so the rest of the problems are to do with how the text is displayed and that is outa my hands.......or at any rate, I no ideas on how the margins are set. You can slap me wrist if you like Francy, :-).......but gently please.....because it's purely unintentional and will probably happen again.
Ridcully
I think I made it clear that it was not a problem in any way.
2 clicks are not a problem since I probably click 200 + times a day.
And since Firefox provides different view settings in the toolbar, it is to be expected that one or other day one will have to use them.
It's no more of a problem for me, than to make my own coffee instead of being served !
So, keep on writing, I keep on reading !
I think I made it clear that it was not a problem in any way.
2 clicks are not a problem since I probably click 200 + times a day.
And since Firefox provides different view settings in the toolbar, it is to be expected that one or other day one will have to use them.
It's no more of a problem for me, than to make my own coffee instead of being served !
So, keep on writing, I keep on reading !
Are you tellin' me that I have made an un-necessary apology.......this is intolerable......I'm goin' home to sulk !!
LOL...... :-)
LOL...... :-)
>>>>>>>>.Are you tellin' me..................
Yup, I am ! Have a happy sulky day !
Yup, I am ! Have a happy sulky day !
Hmmmmmmm.........one assumes with your pen-name of Francy you may be of the feminine persuasion. I which case permit me to say ........you is bein' crool to a poor old white haired gentleman. Sigh, .....but it was ever thus.
Post Script.....can't say I blame you though. The person from whom I take my pen-name in the Diskworld series is a crotchety, elderly Arch-Chancellor at Unseen University of Magic......he's a delight in stubborn, pig-headed obtuse behaviour......Not that I am of course.......no.......oh no......LOL. (My special delight is that he wears a wizard's conical hat with inbuilt drawers for his tobacco necessities......and the top of the cone unscrews to allow him to pour a good snifter of whisky or other similar delights.........I don't smoke, but I like the idea of the drawers.)
Post Script.....can't say I blame you though. The person from whom I take my pen-name in the Diskworld series is a crotchety, elderly Arch-Chancellor at Unseen University of Magic......he's a delight in stubborn, pig-headed obtuse behaviour......Not that I am of course.......no.......oh no......LOL. (My special delight is that he wears a wizard's conical hat with inbuilt drawers for his tobacco necessities......and the top of the cone unscrews to allow him to pour a good snifter of whisky or other similar delights.........I don't smoke, but I like the idea of the drawers.)
This has happened many times in the past, but rarely enough that it isn't worth fixing.
As Gus points out, it's a matter of the style sheets inherent in LXer's basic display design. I think it has something to do with the columns, specifically the standard text blocks on the right side, being somehow defined after the main article text blocks, so that it ends up "overlayed".
But that's just me. I still do all HTML in flat text files with vi. I've never made a style sheet, and I really don't want to.
As Gus points out, it's a matter of the style sheets inherent in LXer's basic display design. I think it has something to do with the columns, specifically the standard text blocks on the right side, being somehow defined after the main article text blocks, so that it ends up "overlayed".
But that's just me. I still do all HTML in flat text files with vi. I've never made a style sheet, and I really don't want to.
All the gray background posts on this site are too wide on my phone.
If I may add a note, Xfce with KDE4 applications
4 earlier comments in the full thread.
jdixon, launching KDE and Gnome services on Xfce startup is a configurable option. My mother runs KDE's solitaire program in Xfce, so I have it set to start KDE services automatically.
There are two reasons I chose openSUSE as the underlying OS, gus3......my first was familiarity/personal choice, but the second was that I knew I could get anything I wanted (but NOT elements of the KDEPIM or semantic desktop packages including Akonadi) from the openSUSE repository held in YaST. And the latest openSUSE 13.1 does have the excellent KDE3 card games package......plus a lot of things like K3b.......packages that I know and prefer.
Another really excellent aspect is that if the package you want to install requires other packages to be installed as well, then YaST shows you that list first and if Akonadi etc. appear, it gives you a chance to change your mind...I mean you are moving to Xfce to escape the darn things, so why put them back ?
And finally, any DM that openSUSE has put onto its OS has been fully tested with all the possibilities (or at least as much as humanly can be done - that's my impression) so added software from the openSUSE repository should work straight away. The only problem I hit was with VLC which of course was partially crippled without the use of the libdvdcss2 file. I have always found it better to work with the Packman version, and even then you may have to add the libdvdcss2 file.....you just have to watch what is being installed.
I shall now have to look at Trinity.....and that promises to be real fun for me because it is leaping from the known into the known (mostly).
Another really excellent aspect is that if the package you want to install requires other packages to be installed as well, then YaST shows you that list first and if Akonadi etc. appear, it gives you a chance to change your mind...I mean you are moving to Xfce to escape the darn things, so why put them back ?
And finally, any DM that openSUSE has put onto its OS has been fully tested with all the possibilities (or at least as much as humanly can be done - that's my impression) so added software from the openSUSE repository should work straight away. The only problem I hit was with VLC which of course was partially crippled without the use of the libdvdcss2 file. I have always found it better to work with the Packman version, and even then you may have to add the libdvdcss2 file.....you just have to watch what is being installed.
I shall now have to look at Trinity.....and that promises to be real fun for me because it is leaping from the known into the known (mostly).
>>>>>I shall now have to look at Trinity...
I will be looking forward to this. I have been using Trinity but never got around to properly setting up // configuring.
I will be looking forward to this. I have been using Trinity but never got around to properly setting up // configuring.
I have never used it Francy.......could be the blind leading the blind.....but since it is based on what used to be my very well loved KDE3.5, I don't think I'll have too many problems. It remains a basic "thesis" of mine that the KDE team could and should have done what the Trinity project has done, but they have been pushed in a very different direction for what I think are economic/funding reasons and by a very large organisation.
The saddest bit is that as far as I know, no distribution is offering Trinity as an alternative desktop and I think that it should be right up there in the front line......It's under constant development and if you look at the distribution list that it now supports and will run on, the numbers are incredible. If you want "pure KDE" then the options really are either KDE4 or Trinity. I'm looking forward to getting it set up as well.......
The only faint drawback that I can see at the moment is that its installation is largely done from the command line. While I can do this, I generally prefer not to have to do so.....if there is a GUI version, then I'll take it every time, even though I install Apache OpenOffice from the CLI, I don't find it as convenient. However, CLI installation of Trinity is looking interesting and if I can make it as simple as possible for anyone else, then I certainly will. I'll be taking a rest for a while though...and play with the software on an old Lenovo laptop with a single core CPU......if that can run the stuff nicely, then anything can.
The saddest bit is that as far as I know, no distribution is offering Trinity as an alternative desktop and I think that it should be right up there in the front line......It's under constant development and if you look at the distribution list that it now supports and will run on, the numbers are incredible. If you want "pure KDE" then the options really are either KDE4 or Trinity. I'm looking forward to getting it set up as well.......
The only faint drawback that I can see at the moment is that its installation is largely done from the command line. While I can do this, I generally prefer not to have to do so.....if there is a GUI version, then I'll take it every time, even though I install Apache OpenOffice from the CLI, I don't find it as convenient. However, CLI installation of Trinity is looking interesting and if I can make it as simple as possible for anyone else, then I certainly will. I'll be taking a rest for a while though...and play with the software on an old Lenovo laptop with a single core CPU......if that can run the stuff nicely, then anything can.
>>>The only faint drawback that I can see at the moment is that its installation is largely done from the command line.
There are liveCDs on their website. I recommend , just as an introduction without hassles, try the PCLinuxOS remaster. There is also exeGNUlinux which is a liveCD and troublefree, as in : my Granny can do it. From there , you can expand your experience.
Just yesterday, I installed the pclos TDE remaster, the very same way as I install any other distro. Not one click more. (( that was in an attempt to gain knowledge for an existing KDE4 problem ))
Try the easy way first. It avoids high blood pressure and some cursing :-)
There are liveCDs on their website. I recommend , just as an introduction without hassles, try the PCLinuxOS remaster. There is also exeGNUlinux which is a liveCD and troublefree, as in : my Granny can do it. From there , you can expand your experience.
Just yesterday, I installed the pclos TDE remaster, the very same way as I install any other distro. Not one click more. (( that was in an attempt to gain knowledge for an existing KDE4 problem ))
Try the easy way first. It avoids high blood pressure and some cursing :-)
Francy, are you "psychic" or something ? I had a really good look at their site last night and made the decision that the PCLinuxOS was the way to go in order to start the ball rolling.......and actually began a download, then realised it was way, way, way past my bedtime and I was starting to fall asleep in front of the computer (I wonder if we all do that occasionally do you think ?) and then aborted the download......But you have confirmed that decision I had already made.
Even a very short preliminary article on that particular live CD would be worth its weight in hen's teeth, for several reasons but most importantly : to get Trinity in front of a lot of readers and get them to actually trial it. And if enough users begin to clamour for it, Trinity may be offered as a DE option by a major distribution. Right now there is NO way I will ditch my current desktop of KDE4.6......it's brilliant, but I definitely do want to explore some other options.....just in case. Thanks for the heads-up on PCLinuxOS.
Even a very short preliminary article on that particular live CD would be worth its weight in hen's teeth, for several reasons but most importantly : to get Trinity in front of a lot of readers and get them to actually trial it. And if enough users begin to clamour for it, Trinity may be offered as a DE option by a major distribution. Right now there is NO way I will ditch my current desktop of KDE4.6......it's brilliant, but I definitely do want to explore some other options.....just in case. Thanks for the heads-up on PCLinuxOS.
Just remember when you take that remaster.
It's dated June or July 2013. Trying to update <<that>> particular one, without <<some>> knowledge, <<may>> land you in trouble. But let me say it this way : It's good for a look and getting an idea. Don't update, it will break package, like google-earth per example And anyway, the update is as of today, 736 packages The exeGNUlinux is up-to-date, meaning r4 ( still unfinished ) and looks good.
There are of course other live CDs , like Ubuntu, which I didn't fancy.
It's dated June or July 2013. Trying to update <<that>> particular one, without <<some>> knowledge, <<may>> land you in trouble. But let me say it this way : It's good for a look and getting an idea. Don't update, it will break package, like google-earth per example And anyway, the update is as of today, 736 packages The exeGNUlinux is up-to-date, meaning r4 ( still unfinished ) and looks good.
There are of course other live CDs , like Ubuntu, which I didn't fancy.
Hmmmmm........Francy........my very good LXer friend.......have YOU ever thought of doing an article on Trinity ? I would be more than willing to yield the field......??????????
Thanks for the tips, though I had no intention of updating anything.....just having a look and play. Now I'll definitely NOT do any fiddling with the update section. By the bye.....does it install as well ?
PS.......I looked at my last question.......and blushed..........Well of COURSE it installs if you are warning me not to update it unless I really know what I am doing...........sigh......consider it a sign of galloping senility.
Thanks for the tips, though I had no intention of updating anything.....just having a look and play. Now I'll definitely NOT do any fiddling with the update section. By the bye.....does it install as well ?
PS.......I looked at my last question.......and blushed..........Well of COURSE it installs if you are warning me not to update it unless I really know what I am doing...........sigh......consider it a sign of galloping senility.
> jdixon, launching KDE and Gnome services on Xfce startup is a configurable option.
Yes, I'm aware of that, but not having access to my home machine, I couldn't look up the specifics. I'm home now, so here goes.
In the XFCE menu, under Settings, you should find Session and Startup. Under the Advanced tab of Session and Startup, in the Compatibility section, there are check boxes you can select to start the Gnome and KDE services on XFCE startup. If those are not checked, no Gnome or KDE services are started when XFCE starts.
Once XFCE starts, running a KDE app should start up any KDE tools needed to run that app. For example, if I start K3b, the following shows up in a ps ax command:
None of which were running before I started K3b. I suspect Kmail would error out, since it expects the various services to already be running.
> My mother runs KDE's solitaire program in Xfce, so I have it set to start KDE services automatically.
KPatience seems to run fine without the services running. It's one of the KDE programs I use..
Yes, I'm aware of that, but not having access to my home machine, I couldn't look up the specifics. I'm home now, so here goes.
In the XFCE menu, under Settings, you should find Session and Startup. Under the Advanced tab of Session and Startup, in the Compatibility section, there are check boxes you can select to start the Gnome and KDE services on XFCE startup. If those are not checked, no Gnome or KDE services are started when XFCE starts.
Once XFCE starts, running a KDE app should start up any KDE tools needed to run that app. For example, if I start K3b, the following shows up in a ps ax command:
24006 ? S 0:17 [kworker/1:2] 24268 ? S 0:00 [kworker/1:1] 24278 ? S 0:00 [kworker/1:0] 24289 tty2 Sl 0:00 k3b 24292 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/udisks-daemon 24293 ? S 0:00 udisks-daemon: not polling any devices 24299 ? S 0:00 [kworker/2:0] 24303 ? Ss 0:00 kdeinit4: kdeinit4 Running... 24305 ? S 0:00 kdeinit4: klauncher [kdeinit] --fd=8 24307 ? S 0:00 kdeinit4: kded4 [kdeinit] 24309 ? S 0:00 /usr/libexec/gam_server 24330 ? S 0:00 [kworker/3:0] 24350 ? S 0:00 [kworker/0:1] 24351 ? Sl 0:00 kdeinit4: kio_trash [kdeinit] trash local:/tmp/ksocke 24352 ? S 0:00 kdeinit4: kio_file [kdeinit] file local:/tmp/ksocket- 24353 ? S 0:00 kdeinit4: kio_file [kdeinit] file local:/tmp/ksocket-
None of which were running before I started K3b. I suspect Kmail would error out, since it expects the various services to already be running.
> My mother runs KDE's solitaire program in Xfce, so I have it set to start KDE services automatically.
KPatience seems to run fine without the services running. It's one of the KDE programs I use..
>>>>>>if you are warning me not to update it unless I really know what I am doing...
Just a clarification ! . You probably know very well what you are doing. It's just that PClinuxOS devs and forum community do not support the Trinity Remaster. They do recognize it , but do not support it. This is probably because they do have more than enough on there plate as it is. Supporting Trinity will just be an extra burden and a distraction.
As much as I would like to have support, I only can agree with them regarding this matter.
Maybe one day, it will change, but not soon !
Having said that and taking into consideration that present ( installed ) ISO had no gradual updates for nearly a year, trowing 736 packages at it in one go is/can be/could be/will be/etc dangerous.
However, I did it anyway !!! Only one broken package so far , and it wasn't a trinity one ! And Office got highly confused :-)
See you around
Just a clarification ! . You probably know very well what you are doing. It's just that PClinuxOS devs and forum community do not support the Trinity Remaster. They do recognize it , but do not support it. This is probably because they do have more than enough on there plate as it is. Supporting Trinity will just be an extra burden and a distraction.
As much as I would like to have support, I only can agree with them regarding this matter.
Maybe one day, it will change, but not soon !
Having said that and taking into consideration that present ( installed ) ISO had no gradual updates for nearly a year, trowing 736 packages at it in one go is/can be/could be/will be/etc dangerous.
However, I did it anyway !!! Only one broken package so far , and it wasn't a trinity one ! And Office got highly confused :-)
See you around
Whoa Francy.......I think you may have misinterpreted my comment >>>Well of COURSE it installs if you are warning me not to update it unless I really know what I am doing<<<
To explain.........I asked if it would install from the live CD, and then realised a minute or two later that my question was rather "stooopid" because it would have to be able to be installed if you can update it......let's face it, you can't up date a "live cd/dvd"......you can only update a writeable/eraseable medium such as a hard disk drive. Now, that's all that was intended. Honestly, there are stacks of times where I am definitely NOT sure what the heck I am doing, but this wasn't intended to be included amongst them. Hope that clarifies the situation.....it's not a problem, but you deserved to know the true situation as I saw it.
Cheers.
To explain.........I asked if it would install from the live CD, and then realised a minute or two later that my question was rather "stooopid" because it would have to be able to be installed if you can update it......let's face it, you can't up date a "live cd/dvd"......you can only update a writeable/eraseable medium such as a hard disk drive. Now, that's all that was intended. Honestly, there are stacks of times where I am definitely NOT sure what the heck I am doing, but this wasn't intended to be included amongst them. Hope that clarifies the situation.....it's not a problem, but you deserved to know the true situation as I saw it.
Cheers.
No problem here, ridcully ! It was just some extra information, not always known by outsiders.
Some people might just download the iso, install it, and then go to the forum to ask for assistance on the pclos forum.
Info about trinity is the easiest to get on their mailing list regardless which distro you run Trinity on. Immediate response and friendly people, that's all I can say.
correction: <somewhere> above I wrote : r4 : This should read : r14 .
Info about trinity is the easiest to get on their mailing list regardless which distro you run Trinity on. Immediate response and friendly people, that's all I can say.
correction: <somewhere> above I wrote : r4 : This should read : r14 .
I found the same that JD did, no KDE4 processes until/unless a KDE4 program was run.
My Mom's laptop has Xfce and KDE4, for all the reasons given. She likes the KDE4 applications, but has no use for the whole "semantic desktop" mess.
My Mom's laptop has Xfce and KDE4, for all the reasons given. She likes the KDE4 applications, but has no use for the whole "semantic desktop" mess.
Your comment, Bob_Robertson, is exactly why I like openSUSE as the underlying OS. If I go to install anything, it tells me immediately what (if any) other software is required for the new installation to operate correctly and waits to see if I still want to go ahead. I've already mentioned that in a post above......I still suspect that the best way of all will be Trinity...... but I have yet to start trials.......I'm having a "lay-week" or even a couple of them before bashing into another test sequence.
>>>>I'm having a "lay-week" or even a couple of them before bashing into another test sequence.
...which I suppose is Trinity, according your writing above and elsewhere !
You may want to read here first , before you jump into the deep end.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Trinity#The_difference_...
It's all useful information and not limited to Arch.
Happy reading
Remember . it's read only ..........
...which I suppose is Trinity, according your writing above and elsewhere !
You may want to read here first , before you jump into the deep end.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Trinity#The_difference_...
It's all useful information and not limited to Arch.
Happy reading
Remember . it's read only ..........
Thankyou muchly Francy......and yes, the next one will be Trinity, but I am currently feeling downright lazy. It was very thoughtful of you to give the link though, and I have looked.......and shuddered gently.
There is however, another aspect to this "saga". When I start, it will be with a "vanilla" installation exactly as the Trinity site offers it. It will also be without respect to anything else other than what Trinity says to do......if I cannot install happily based on what they give me, and get something running nicely, then that is a very different kettle of fish from completely messing up an ArchLinux set of directions specific for their own distro.....
I work on the KISS principle......"keep it simple stupid", where I am the "stooopid" person involved. As a taxonomist, I claim to have a very methodical mind - it sorta kinda works in logical steps.....Or anyhow, that's how I like to think I work (a very close person to me sometimes despairs of my logic, but then she has a privileged position... :-) ) But whatever, I always try very hard to keep my logical steps as simple as possible so that just one problem at a time is dealt with.......And that by the way and with knowledge after the event, was what made the semantic desktop so difficult to deal with, because isolating a single problem at a time is often nearly impossible - the darn thing is so interwoven and interdependent.
I think I will stick with my first decision and download a copy of the live disk on PCLInuxOS.....and see what I get. It may be relatively "old", but it will certainly give me a good indication of menus, behaviour, etc.
There is however, another aspect to this "saga". When I start, it will be with a "vanilla" installation exactly as the Trinity site offers it. It will also be without respect to anything else other than what Trinity says to do......if I cannot install happily based on what they give me, and get something running nicely, then that is a very different kettle of fish from completely messing up an ArchLinux set of directions specific for their own distro.....
I work on the KISS principle......"keep it simple stupid", where I am the "stooopid" person involved. As a taxonomist, I claim to have a very methodical mind - it sorta kinda works in logical steps.....Or anyhow, that's how I like to think I work (a very close person to me sometimes despairs of my logic, but then she has a privileged position... :-) ) But whatever, I always try very hard to keep my logical steps as simple as possible so that just one problem at a time is dealt with.......And that by the way and with knowledge after the event, was what made the semantic desktop so difficult to deal with, because isolating a single problem at a time is often nearly impossible - the darn thing is so interwoven and interdependent.
I think I will stick with my first decision and download a copy of the live disk on PCLInuxOS.....and see what I get. It may be relatively "old", but it will certainly give me a good indication of menus, behaviour, etc.
>>>>>>>I think I will stick with my first decision and download a copy of the live disk on PCLInuxOS.....and see what I get. It may be relatively "old", but it will certainly give me a good indication of menus, behaviour, etc.
I (re) installed thil old one, for reasons NOT related to Trinity.
I also updated it ( over 700 packages) , after disabling the trinity repos, and all went fine.
So, I think for a first date, take PCLinuxOS-n-o remaster.
I also tried the Ubuntu-trinity liveCD ( nightly build ).
All went well, but I prefer the pclos one
The exeGNU wheezy ( r14 ) also looks good
As soon as R14 comes out, and that shouldn't be to far away, I will try all of them on my < old > hardware.
Both above mentioned ones are straight < click-your-finger-while-the-brain-is-sleeping > installs.
See you around
I (re) installed thil old one, for reasons NOT related to Trinity.
I also updated it ( over 700 packages) , after disabling the trinity repos, and all went fine.
So, I think for a first date, take PCLinuxOS-n-o remaster.
I also tried the Ubuntu-trinity liveCD ( nightly build ).
All went well, but I prefer the pclos one
The exeGNU wheezy ( r14 ) also looks good
As soon as R14 comes out, and that shouldn't be to far away, I will try all of them on my < old > hardware.
Both above mentioned ones are straight < click-your-finger-while-the-brain-is-sleeping > installs.
See you around
** Oops. Didn't realize how old this thread was. But I don't see a way to delete. **
I'm a disgruntled KDE PCLinuxOS user. By default, in PCLinuxOS, the semantic desktop is disabled, which is great. But Amarok hasn't worked right for me in PCLinuxOS ever since KDE4 came out. The main issue for me now is that the distribution's mysql, php, and nginx are so old.
I tried switching to Mint XFCE but really dislike Thunar. The lack of tabs and panes is bad enough, but it also can't created symlinks to a given destination. It's "solution" is to create a symlink within the current folder that can then be copied, but that just doesn't work sometimes (for example on a read only folder).
And perhaps I'm shallow, but I cannot stand the GTK open and save dialogs. It's bad enough that I have to see them in Firefox, but everywhere else too? Just too much for me.
I'm now using Mint KDE without too many issues. I prefer the PCLinuxOS menu, and I had to re-enable the root password, but overall, it's fairly equivalent.
I'm a disgruntled KDE PCLinuxOS user. By default, in PCLinuxOS, the semantic desktop is disabled, which is great. But Amarok hasn't worked right for me in PCLinuxOS ever since KDE4 came out. The main issue for me now is that the distribution's mysql, php, and nginx are so old.
I tried switching to Mint XFCE but really dislike Thunar. The lack of tabs and panes is bad enough, but it also can't created symlinks to a given destination. It's "solution" is to create a symlink within the current folder that can then be copied, but that just doesn't work sometimes (for example on a read only folder).
And perhaps I'm shallow, but I cannot stand the GTK open and save dialogs. It's bad enough that I have to see them in Firefox, but everywhere else too? Just too much for me.
I'm now using Mint KDE without too many issues. I prefer the PCLinuxOS menu, and I had to re-enable the root password, but overall, it's fairly equivalent.
Ermm Thunar has tabs, its the first menu item under File.
As a heavy XFCE & Thunar user though I do wish Thunar had a split view file pane.
With Thunar it is best to configure custom actions to handle stuff like symlinks and you can also do a multitude of other cool stuff.
The custom actions feature is what keeps me using Thunar its darn good.
Visit this site https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThunarCustomActions and you will find a custom action for symlinks.
Feel free to google "Thunar Custom Actions" for other cool suggestions.
As a heavy XFCE & Thunar user though I do wish Thunar had a split view file pane.
With Thunar it is best to configure custom actions to handle stuff like symlinks and you can also do a multitude of other cool stuff.
The custom actions feature is what keeps me using Thunar its darn good.
Visit this site https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThunarCustomActions and you will find a custom action for symlinks.
Feel free to google "Thunar Custom Actions" for other cool suggestions.
What keeps me using Thunar: The sheer speed
Take note that these are the OpenSUSE defaults
This is not a criticism of the article in any way. I just wanted to note that some of the defaults here are OpenSUSE specific:
-The article noted that in Xubuntu the main menu defaults to the top which happens to be the Xfce default rather than the bottom as in OpenSUSE. On the bottom the default is an icon panel for your most used applications.
-There isn't really a default email client for Xfce (though they sometimes suggest Claws, Sylpheed, or Geary), but Thunderbird fits in well.
-The default optical disc authoring software for Xfce is Xfburn rather than Brasero. I tend to use K3b most of the time anyway, but Xfburn works.
There are a number of applications which are actually associated with Xfce, but they do always mention others as well when recommending applications, so they're not very dogmatic about anything like that. Here are the technically official applications where one exists:
Terminal: Terminal (xfce-terminal)
Dictionary: Xfce4 Dictionary (xfce4-dict)
Calendar: Orage
Browser: Midori
Media Player: Parole (replaces the now defunct Xfmedia)
MPD Client: Xfmpc
Optical Disc Burning: Xfburn
Image Viewer: Ristretto
Text Editor: Mousepad
Archive Manager: Squeeze
File Manager: Thunar
As I mentioned their recommended applications list includes many other programs in these and other categories.
Edit: There is no longer an official text editor.
-The article noted that in Xubuntu the main menu defaults to the top which happens to be the Xfce default rather than the bottom as in OpenSUSE. On the bottom the default is an icon panel for your most used applications.
-There isn't really a default email client for Xfce (though they sometimes suggest Claws, Sylpheed, or Geary), but Thunderbird fits in well.
-The default optical disc authoring software for Xfce is Xfburn rather than Brasero. I tend to use K3b most of the time anyway, but Xfburn works.
There are a number of applications which are actually associated with Xfce, but they do always mention others as well when recommending applications, so they're not very dogmatic about anything like that. Here are the technically official applications where one exists:
Terminal: Terminal (xfce-terminal)
Dictionary: Xfce4 Dictionary (xfce4-dict)
Calendar: Orage
Browser: Midori
Media Player: Parole (replaces the now defunct Xfmedia)
MPD Client: Xfmpc
Optical Disc Burning: Xfburn
Image Viewer: Ristretto
Text Editor: Mousepad
Archive Manager: Squeeze
File Manager: Thunar
As I mentioned their recommended applications list includes many other programs in these and other categories.
Edit: There is no longer an official text editor.
> Text Editor: Mousepad
Mousepad wasn't included in Slackware 14.1, and a conversation on the matter indicated that it was no longer supported. They recommended Leafpad instead.
Mousepad wasn't included in Slackware 14.1, and a conversation on the matter indicated that it was no longer supported. They recommended Leafpad instead.
I see that you are correct. I hadn't realized because it's still included in a lot of distributions. I think that means there is no official text editor anymore, just a recommended one. Thanks for the catch.
Edit: It appears that the reason for this is that Mousepad was only forked from Leafpad because Leafpad had no printing support. Leafpad has since added printing support, so Mousepad is no longer considered necessary.
Edit: It appears that the reason for this is that Mousepad was only forked from Leafpad because Leafpad had no printing support. Leafpad has since added printing support, so Mousepad is no longer considered necessary.
> Thanks for the catch.
I just installed Slackware 14.1 last weekend, so the matter was still fresh in my mind. :)
I just installed Slackware 14.1 last weekend, so the matter was still fresh in my mind. :)
Thankyou CFWhitman....with respect to Xfce, I am a complete novice as well, so what you got in the article was what a real newcomer would see. My only real aim was to show that for a disguntled KDE4 user, there are some really good alternatives out there, and it is possible to get them really humming along. I'll put this note on all three threads if it's applicable.
I recently tested Mint XFCE and was very impressed with Thunar. SSH and SMB integration was seemless as well as MTP. Of course I hate that it can't do dual pane.
Quoting:I recently tested Mint XFCE and was very impressed with Thunar. SSH and SMB integration was seemless as well as MTP. Of course I hate that it can't do dual pane.
Thunar has made a lot of progress over the past few releases. I use the SFTP feature a lot, and I have a lot of bookmarks, too.
RPM-based, DEB-based... and TXZ-based
11 earlier comments in the full thread.
notbob: how do you expect the dependency situation in any other distribution to be better?
i have not used slackware for more than a decade, but i guess what you are seeing is that slackware doesn't install so much by default. if i start with a minimalist install, then i expect a lot of packages to be added as dependencies for multimedia apps too. that's just the complexity of multimedia showing. as long as it's all automatic and i just have to wait, it just means the time spent now is what i saved earlier by getting up and running faster. and then at least i know that only the stuff i really need is installed, and not a lot of things i don't care about.
greetings, eMBee.
greetings, eMBee.
>>>>>>Where does it ask for three partitions to be used?
In setup ! After making /, it told me ( or that's how I read it ) to choose another partition for xxx( forgot exactly ) and then again another, and ask me where to mount it ! But probably I read it wrong and misunderstood
I will give it another try and go to setup after the / , which I was planning anyway
Thanks for the reply. It's appreciated .
In setup ! After making /, it told me ( or that's how I read it ) to choose another partition for xxx( forgot exactly ) and then again another, and ask me where to mount it ! But probably I read it wrong and misunderstood
I will give it another try and go to setup after the / , which I was planning anyway
Thanks for the reply. It's appreciated .
Francy, I believe it is allowing you the option to specify other partitions to be mounted (pretty much as many as you want), but you have the option to continue at that point with only / specified, which is what you want to do.
@ jdixon
Yes, you are right ! I jumped in without reading one of the installation guides available all over.
In the guides there is no mention of < must partition/mount > another one !
Oh well , scr...g up is part of a days work, every now and then ! :-)
I will give it another go tomorrow morning
Thanks for response
Yes, you are right ! I jumped in without reading one of the installation guides available all over.
In the guides there is no mention of < must partition/mount > another one !
Oh well , scr...g up is part of a days work, every now and then ! :-)
I will give it another go tomorrow morning
Thanks for response
I would have been very surprised if there had been a change like that in the Slackware install (I've installed 14.0, but not 14.1 yet). The Slackware installer has always been one of my favorites, with just the amount of control over the process that I like.
I imagine the issue that notbob is talking about with dependencies is related to manually installed dependencies rather than using something with automatic dependency management. When I install a Slackware desktop, I generally tell it to install everything, but even then you might want to add programs that aren't included, which might also call for dependencies that aren't included.
I imagine the issue that notbob is talking about with dependencies is related to manually installed dependencies rather than using something with automatic dependency management. When I install a Slackware desktop, I generally tell it to install everything, but even then you might want to add programs that aren't included, which might also call for dependencies that aren't included.
> notbob: how do you expect the dependency situation in any other distribution to be better?
Having used Slack for the last 13 yrs, I don't know. I've heard other deb and RPM based distros take care of depenz for you. I've only become interested in audio/video apps lately and will probably look for a multi-media centric distro in the first place, one like AVLinux. I also realize I need a platform with more horsepower than my ancient P4 + .5G RAM desktop, which is fine for basic Slack, but is a bit feeble for more advanced mult/med setups. ;)
Having used Slack for the last 13 yrs, I don't know. I've heard other deb and RPM based distros take care of depenz for you. I've only become interested in audio/video apps lately and will probably look for a multi-media centric distro in the first place, one like AVLinux. I also realize I need a platform with more horsepower than my ancient P4 + .5G RAM desktop, which is fine for basic Slack, but is a bit feeble for more advanced mult/med setups. ;)
> Audacity alone takes some 20-30 depenz to install correctly.
I didn't count that many, but I didn't trace down to all the subpackages required, and I know that ffmpeg alone has a number of dependencies.
> I imagine the issue that notbob is talking about with dependencies is related to manually installed dependencies
Almost certainly. Anyone who has compiled software for Slackware has run into the problem. Slackbuilds.org and sbopkg help a lot, but they don't get rid of the problem completely.
> I've heard other deb and RPM based distros take care of depenz for you.
They do, but by specifying what additional packages the package you want requires and installing them for you and the same time. They don't give you the option to specify which dependencies you want, the way a Slackbuild script does. If you don't want mp3 support in Audacity in Slackware, you don't have to compile it in. With the other distros, the decision is made for you. Convenience or control, choose one.
I didn't count that many, but I didn't trace down to all the subpackages required, and I know that ffmpeg alone has a number of dependencies.
> I imagine the issue that notbob is talking about with dependencies is related to manually installed dependencies
Almost certainly. Anyone who has compiled software for Slackware has run into the problem. Slackbuilds.org and sbopkg help a lot, but they don't get rid of the problem completely.
> I've heard other deb and RPM based distros take care of depenz for you.
They do, but by specifying what additional packages the package you want requires and installing them for you and the same time. They don't give you the option to specify which dependencies you want, the way a Slackbuild script does. If you don't want mp3 support in Audacity in Slackware, you don't have to compile it in. With the other distros, the decision is made for you. Convenience or control, choose one.
slackware makes you compile from source nowadays? it used to be binary only. i don't remember any options about compiling.
greetings, eMBee.
greetings, eMBee.
Quoting:slackware makes you compile from source nowadays?
The main distribution provides a relatively limited (compared to other distros) set binary packages. Anything not provided by the main distribution has to be obtained elsewhere and is typically compiled from source. http://slackbuilds.org is one such source to obtain build scripts to build packages from source.
> I know that ffmpeg alone has a number of dependencies.
Oh yes, a major offender. I always quail when I see ffmpeg in the mix. Slacky has most of the pkgs ready to go, but they always recommend ALL depenz, which can become quite complex. Slackbuilds will let you off with the absolute minimum depenz, but theirs are a full compile. It's jes one evil vs another. That's why I'm gonna find a distro with all that stuff already set up. Plenty to choose from. ;)
Oh yes, a major offender. I always quail when I see ffmpeg in the mix. Slacky has most of the pkgs ready to go, but they always recommend ALL depenz, which can become quite complex. Slackbuilds will let you off with the absolute minimum depenz, but theirs are a full compile. It's jes one evil vs another. That's why I'm gonna find a distro with all that stuff already set up. Plenty to choose from. ;)
> ...slackware makes you compile from source nowadays?
Slackware has always allowed compiling from souce. It's never required you to do so. However, it has a very limited number of binary packages compared to Debian based distributions. And packages from third party providers vary widely in quality. So many, if not most, Slackware users prefer compiling their own.
As frankiej noted, slackbuilds.org contains a lot of build scripts for doing so, and that process is automated with sbopkg (http://www.sbopkg.org). But that process, while it does list the dependencies for you, doesn't handle them automatically. You still have to compile all of the dependencies before you can compile the main package.
Slackware has always allowed compiling from souce. It's never required you to do so. However, it has a very limited number of binary packages compared to Debian based distributions. And packages from third party providers vary widely in quality. So many, if not most, Slackware users prefer compiling their own.
As frankiej noted, slackbuilds.org contains a lot of build scripts for doing so, and that process is automated with sbopkg (http://www.sbopkg.org). But that process, while it does list the dependencies for you, doesn't handle them automatically. You still have to compile all of the dependencies before you can compile the main package.
> That's why I'm gonna find a distro with all that stuff already set up. Plenty to choose from. ;)
Well, as a Slackware user, you might want to check out Salix and see if it has what you want first.
Well, as a Slackware user, you might want to check out Salix and see if it has what you want first.
> You still have to compile all of the dependencies before you can compile the main package.
In some cases, you must install the depenz before compiling an upstream pkg. This is something I only recently discovered. I've always compiled all pkgs, then install according to depenz hierarchy. In this last instance, it was necessary to install a depenz before I could even compile the upstrm pkg. Now, I compile, then install, each depenz before moving up. Live n' learn. ;)
In some cases, you must install the depenz before compiling an upstream pkg. This is something I only recently discovered. I've always compiled all pkgs, then install according to depenz hierarchy. In this last instance, it was necessary to install a depenz before I could even compile the upstrm pkg. Now, I compile, then install, each depenz before moving up. Live n' learn. ;)
> In some cases, you must install the depenz before compiling an upstream pkg.
Yep. And in some cases even that package can have a dependency. It can rapidly become overwhelming and sometimes simply isn't worth the effort.
Yep. And in some cases even that package can have a dependency. It can rapidly become overwhelming and sometimes simply isn't worth the effort.
Have to admit I stopped using Slackware on the desktop a long long time ago, just use it on my server which does a great job but I would never ever use it as my desktop anymore just way to much hassle and I have better things to do, its a lot easier to just use Linux Mint XFCE for a full desktop and multimedia experience out of the box.
JMHO YMMV.
JMHO YMMV.
> ...just way to much hassle...
As long as it includes what you need (which I'd guess for a good 80% of users it does), Slackware is hardly any hassle at all.
As long as it includes what you need (which I'd guess for a good 80% of users it does), Slackware is hardly any hassle at all.
A simple answer to a question above : MLED is basically "stuff that's missing in Slackware". YMMV of course.
All distros have their own problems. I like Slack for what it does have. I can't tell the number of times I tried a distro only to discover I can't compile anything. No gcc, no C libs, no python, etc. To me, that's the antithesis of what *nix about. While Slack is pretty lame for advanced multimedia, it has the basics and you can always add the rest. OTOH, sometimes easier to jes use another distro for a specific need. ;)
slackware was my second distribution, back then when there was nothing else (or rather i simply had not heard about debian and other efforts. news didn't travel as fast, and no distribution had made a name for itself yet) but most of all the choice of software available even outside of slackware was not that much, so it didn't even occur to me that slackware would not have packaged everything that was available.
thanks for elaborating.
greetings, eMBee.
thanks for elaborating.
greetings, eMBee.
>> can't tell the number of times I tried a distro only to discover I can't compile anything. No gcc, no C libs, no python, etc. To me, that's the antithesis of what *nix about.
This is why my first truly successful distro wss Slackware. When I first started using Linux, there were no prebuilt drivers for my network card. Slackware was the first distribution that allowed me to successfully compile the network driver module.
And I could actually understand it's rc.d start up scripts.
This is why my first truly successful distro wss Slackware. When I first started using Linux, there were no prebuilt drivers for my network card. Slackware was the first distribution that allowed me to successfully compile the network driver module.
And I could actually understand it's rc.d start up scripts.
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