A Kernel of all things!

Guess some people just can't get page hits any other way. Talk about mis-informed. The Gnu OS? Is that Herd? I've heard of Herd. Just never seen it running.

I don't see any stealing going on anywhere. It is free to use Gnu software under the GPL license isn't it?

Yeah, it's the usual nonsense put out by some FSF fans (and, to a lesser extent RMS himself) that it's all about GNU and the kernel really doesn't matter. You've hit the nail on the head. With no decent kernel the whole rest of it doesn't matter because you have no way to communicate with the hardware and no functional OS. If the kernel were all but trivial and GNU was so all fired important and perfect we'd all be running Debian Hurd or some other Hurd based OS.

cabreh: There's Debian GNU/Hurd for starters: http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/

I'm strongly suspecting that reading the link was not done as the quick read I gave to it did not mention stealing but "taking the credit". In fact the only people who I see mentioning stealing are the ones defending Linux, is that a guilt complex? And

can you point to any places where kernel developers acknowledge their work would be useless without the work of Gnu, or that admit they would never be where they are without GCC. Meanwhile other kernels were coming along BSD, the Hurd (which might have made it if necessity had forced more work and perhaps hard decisions on it).

Meanwhile when RMS (every time I have read his words) admits that adoption of the Linux kernel accelerated things greatly for them. He is complementary of the work they have done but also states the unpopular truth if it wasn't Linux it would have been another but can you say the same for the Gnu portion?

Quoting:can you say the same for the Gnu portion?

For a large part BSD shows the answer is "yes".

@Sander

The Hurd is under active development, but does not provide the performance and stability you would expect from a production system. Also, only about every second Debian package has been ported to the GNU/Hurd. There is a lot of work to do before we can make a release.

Directly from the link you posted.

@purple

If you "take" credit for something you have not done you have in effect stolen it (the idea) from someone else. So, I think "stolen" applies. However I don't think Linus has ever alluded to Linux (the kernel) ever including all the GNU software was "his" making. If you have seen such a quote I'd like a link.

However there seems to be no shortage of people insinuating just that. Such as the article in debate.

@cabreh: Well, you said you had never seen it running. I just wanted to point out that it does run. I didn't say anything about how well it runs :-)

I like the author's post:

"Linux is a free Unix-type operating system originally created by Linus Torvalds with the assistance of developers around the world." -Linux.com and Linux.org

The Linux Kernel isn't an operating system, and there is no mention of it being a Kernel. Thus, he is saying that every distribution is just a modified version of his "operating system."

Also hardly any mentions of GNU in general.

He does no such thing. That comment alone shows that you have done no research of your own, only that you follow the talking head route in your logic. One thing Linus is rather good at, besides coding, is crediting others for their work. While the exact Linus quote escapes me it is substantially similar to, "RMS is very much like the Conductor of the Free Software movement, while I am an engineer".

That does not seem to me that Linus is stealing anyones thunder. So please,, before falling into the RMS/FSF rhetoric, do a little research, read a biography or two, and dont take just one side of an argument to be the truth before reaching a conclusion.

What I find hypocritical is that this represents a restriction on the user, yet does nothing for software freedom. You're not required to give attribution. Requiring attribution in the name of your software project is a rather substantial restriction IMO. Why was attribution not written into the GPL if it is so important?

You bring up a good point bigg, if we were to tack on only license attribution, a quick look in /usr/portage/license brings up a whopping 918 seperate and distinct licenses. I'd say an attribution requirement would make such a list as to be incomprehensible to anyone. Heck all the seperate license that X and various odd drivers would fill a good sized coffee cup.

@azerthoth

Wrong, the quote is "We think of Richard Stallman as like `The Great Philosopher` you know. And think of me as the engineer."

And that quote even shows Linus' lack of respect. Richard Stallman has done more coding than Linus has ever done. Richard Stallman is a great philosopher, but that is not all he is.

Okay, I'm donning my asbestos underpants.

@AwesomeTux:

As stated, your comment may be accurate. However, another factor is the type of coding under consideration. Which code is more critical, a web browser kiosk in an airport, or a heart/lung monitor in a hospital?

Stallman et al. may be excellent user-space coders, but their kernel-space design was so far "ahead of its time" as to be impractical. Linus Torvalds filled the gap, at just the right time, to turn GNU's Not Unix into a real operating system, that is, a system which is operational.

We need the dreamers, like Emperor Norton I with his bridge across the San Francisco Bay, and Gene Roddenberry with his Star Fleet communicators. Someone must dare suggest what is commonly believed to be impossible. We also need the engineers, to make the real Golden Gate Bridge and cell phones, to show what is actually possible.

Please consider this suggestion from me, as both dreamer and designer, that there is no disrespect contained in that Linus quote.

As I am living in a hotel this month for work, I do not have my library handy to go digging through my collection of biographies to verify or refute. I note I did say it paraphrased it. I am curious though, how one man says 'we'. On the other hand I am also curious as to how you found the metrics for who has written more, or why that is important at all?

@gus3, is this the second time this year we are agreeing on something? */humor*

@az,

Well, it isn't like we're going to pick out curtains.

Yet.