What Kind Of Bird Are You Booting?

@jdixon Well, then I'm still waiting to hear why any other provider is better/more secure/more trustworthy than Google. As I noted earlier I don't want to have it at home (just got rid of that to save some money on energy). So, if I need to keep my mail somewhere I'd still like to know why Google should be trusted less than anyone else. This seems to be a normal assumption by some people and I'm curious to know if there is any reality behind this or just fear of the big corporation.

@cabreh: Google has an insane amount of data. The potential for abuse is staggering. They know your e-mail. They know what you search for. They know a large number of websites that you visit (thanks to AdSense and Analytics). With their new DNS they will know all the websites that you visit.

Google makes money from profiling and ads. Their incentive is to keep all this data as long as possible. Anonymising that data does not help (think about the AOL search database release). Google's products are not free. You pay for them with privacy.

And even if you believe that Google does not do evil, remember that all this data is just a subpoena or a clever crack away.

In terms of privacy, you're better off with a paid-for provider that is not supported by ads. They have no incentive to keep your data around.

Quoting:And even if you believe that Google does not do evil

...do the rest of us a favor and stop using the Internet.

How shallow, gus.

@Sander: I don't doubt much of what you say. BUT, do you really believe that any other such provider does any differently? I don't. Perhaps the scale varies, but I doubt the actions do.

My point being I can get the same abuse from anyone. So, why pick on just one of them? Again keeping in mind I don't want to do this at home. It is only my e-mail and not my data files. And I won't be using their DNS system.

Should I switch my search engine to Bing so I don't get abused? ;)

Cabeh, just do what you want. Just don't say you were never warned.

Quoting: [insert name / alias], just do what you want. Just don't say you were never warned.

But when it happens, will you even know? "Insert name / alias" might be suspicious, but unequivocal proof will be elusive, NOT conclusive*.

YBT

* Am I being serious or do I just like the sound pattern?

> Well, then I'm still waiting to hear why any other provider is better/more secure/more trustworthy than Google.

Because you're paying them for the service and have a legally binding agreement with them, perhaps?

You described a problem, and I offered what I considered a better solution. It turns out my proposed solution doesn't meet all your needs, and gmail does. That's fine. I have no problem with you using it. And I don't consider Google any more untrustworthy than any other large company.

Actually I never had any problem related to using GMail. My issue in this thread was people saying that Google couldn't be trusted. Yet, no evidence of wrong doing was offered. I didn't see any reason why any other organization would be more trustworthy.

That's all I was saying.

And I don't have any connection to GMail or Google other than as a user. So, I'm not trying to push Google/GMail for any reason other than it works for me.

In any case let's all use what works for us.

> My issue in this thread was people saying that Google couldn't be trusted.

There are a few axioms which, while not absolute, tend to be very useful in life. A couple of them are that no one is completely trustworthy and that the more power someone has, the less trustworthy they become. They're as applicable to companies as they are to people, possibly even more so. I think that's what you're getting from the folks here. Most of us have seen the evil companies can do all too often in our lives.

> In any case let's all use what works for us.

Agreed.

@Sander:

I won't argue that. Yes, it's a shallow comment, but I stand by it. That kind of naïvété is dangerous, whether applied to Google or to Microsoft, Yahoo!, blah blah blah.

In the words of Blaze Starr's mother, "Never trust a man who says, 'Trust me.'"

Quoting:"Never trust a man who says, 'Trust me.'"

When a woman says it it's ok.

The best part of that was when she went to the city, and was making a living as a burlesque dancer. When Gov. Earl Long showed up off-stage and asked her to dinner, she said, "Can I trust you?"

To which he replied, "Trust me? H*ll, no!" Points for honesty.

And they lived happily ever after...

Quoting:BUT, do you really believe that any other such provider does any differently?

Yes. A provider that is not supported by ads but for which you pay a monthly fee has no reason to harvest so much data.

Quoting:That kind of naïvété is dangerous

Eh? I think I'm misinterpreting your posts or you are misinterpreting mine.

@Sander:

I simply latched onto part of your statement, and then ramped it up. Any attempts to understand what I said, should go no further than that.

Having seen the damage that results from misplaced trust, which nearly included someone else getting fired for infecting the corporate gateway, I don't have much sympathy for people who see no need for caution on the Internet.

Quoting:A provider that is not supported by ads but for which you pay a monthly fee has no reason to harvest so much data.

Everyone has their price. Even Google retracted their anti-censorship stance when they expanded into China.

http://gus3.typepad.com/photos/googles_shame/googleusedtosho... (screenshot retrieved from, of all places, Google cache)

@cabreh:

Quoting:My issue in this thread was people saying that Google couldn't be trusted. Yet, no evidence of wrong doing was offered.

http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4037372.htm

@gus3: That was obviously for their search engine. So, what do you use instead of Google? Is there a search engine that isn't ad supported and therefore doesn't do the same thing?

I'd say my logging in via IMAP to get/send my e-mail doesn't give much chance of doing any of the stuff that link was all about. However, doing a search does. The only way to avaoid that issue is to never use a search engine on the web.

@: I never stated I trusted Google. In fact I said I distrusted all of them. Therefore the only features I'm really using are e-mail related. And this is just for cost reasons. I have always adhered to the trust no one principal. I'm a pessimist by default. But I do believe in not picking on one particular organization when there are several to point fingers at.

Quoting:I simply latched onto part of your statement, and then ramped it up.

I think you misread my statements then. I don't trust Google. From your comments I gather that you think I do.

@Sander:

No, you were making a rational, well-constructed argument about their lack of trustworthiness. I agree with you, but my snark was aimed at the other side of the coin.

@cabreh:

There may be several, but how many of them made such a big deal of "Don't be evil" or similar? (Excluding Cuil, which was a flash in the pan.) Like I said, everyone has their price.

Ah. I missed the fact that it was a snark then :-)