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Stop Apologizing For Linux!
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Comments (49)
The 32 bit version isn't recommended either
22 earlier comments in the full thread.
Thanks for the link. That's a great project idea!
> I like how people have 1 bad experience with ubuntu and declare it unfit for the masses.
Versus those who declare it the greatest thing since sliced bread based on a single install without having tried any other version of Linux?
> I trust ubuntu more than any other OS,
The distribution is Ubuntu. The OS is Linux. Argue the terms all you want, it won't change the reality.
> Get over the ubuntu hate already...
I don't think anyone here Hates Ubuntu. Some folks dislike that so many people seem to think Ubuntu=Linux. Ubuntu is a moderately good Linux distro. It's not significantly better or worse than many others.
> ...or go back to your debian dungeons that you call forums.
There are Debian users here, but I'm not one of them. I use Slackware. I play with Ubuntu and several other versions of Linux as time and resources permit.
Versus those who declare it the greatest thing since sliced bread based on a single install without having tried any other version of Linux?
> I trust ubuntu more than any other OS,
The distribution is Ubuntu. The OS is Linux. Argue the terms all you want, it won't change the reality.
> Get over the ubuntu hate already...
I don't think anyone here Hates Ubuntu. Some folks dislike that so many people seem to think Ubuntu=Linux. Ubuntu is a moderately good Linux distro. It's not significantly better or worse than many others.
> ...or go back to your debian dungeons that you call forums.
There are Debian users here, but I'm not one of them. I use Slackware. I play with Ubuntu and several other versions of Linux as time and resources permit.
I trust ubuntu more than any other OS,
The distribution is Ubuntu. The OS is Linux. Argue the terms all you want, it won't change the reality.
> Get over the ubuntu hate already...
OK...Aside from my participation in completely hijacking this thread...let me help accentuate some of the misconceptions that run amuck in the uneducated computer using public.
I run a small business that helps people change over from Windows to Linux. A week does not go by that I don't get a call from people that have tried Ubuntu but didn't really like it. They state to me that they are now ready to try Linux. It is looking like many folks think Ubuntu is a stand-alone Operating System, Now blame it on the Ubuntu community, blame it on pi$$ poor marketing, or simply blame it on clueless computer users who couldn't google their own names...the phenomenon does exist out there.
Trying to explain to people that Ubuntu IS Linux has become a part-time job for me. Explaining to people the concept of distros has more than once made me consider flossing with a weedeater. Now, most of them don't like Ubuntu because it's simply a foreign thing to them but the fact remains, there is a conceptual reality out there and identifying Ubuntu AS Linux has become a problem.
And for disclosure purposes, we use our own branded form of Mint Linux on all computers given away by my non profit, which is of course built from Ubuntu. Ubuntu and it's corporate/user base have done good things.
Marketing isn't one of them.
The comment about "Debian Dungeons" does nothing to further your cause. It simply illustrates the rift between Linux users and the different communities. You would do well by considering the harm that sort of thing does before declaring your allegiance to any particular distro or community. I'm just sayin...
The distribution is Ubuntu. The OS is Linux. Argue the terms all you want, it won't change the reality.
> Get over the ubuntu hate already...
OK...Aside from my participation in completely hijacking this thread...let me help accentuate some of the misconceptions that run amuck in the uneducated computer using public.
I run a small business that helps people change over from Windows to Linux. A week does not go by that I don't get a call from people that have tried Ubuntu but didn't really like it. They state to me that they are now ready to try Linux. It is looking like many folks think Ubuntu is a stand-alone Operating System, Now blame it on the Ubuntu community, blame it on pi$$ poor marketing, or simply blame it on clueless computer users who couldn't google their own names...the phenomenon does exist out there.
Trying to explain to people that Ubuntu IS Linux has become a part-time job for me. Explaining to people the concept of distros has more than once made me consider flossing with a weedeater. Now, most of them don't like Ubuntu because it's simply a foreign thing to them but the fact remains, there is a conceptual reality out there and identifying Ubuntu AS Linux has become a problem.
And for disclosure purposes, we use our own branded form of Mint Linux on all computers given away by my non profit, which is of course built from Ubuntu. Ubuntu and it's corporate/user base have done good things.
Marketing isn't one of them.
The comment about "Debian Dungeons" does nothing to further your cause. It simply illustrates the rift between Linux users and the different communities. You would do well by considering the harm that sort of thing does before declaring your allegiance to any particular distro or community. I'm just sayin...
@jdixon -
Quoting:Versus those who declare it the greatest thing since sliced bread based on a single install without having tried any other version of Linux?I don't know anyone like that jdixon, do you? All of the ubuntu users I know personally have been using linux for 5-10 years, and none of them say "it's the greatest thing since sliced bread". Like myself, they finally settled on ubuntu after using a number of distros, and and will gladly move to something better if and when it comes along.
I prefer unsliced loaves.
It's human nature to want to knock somebody off their pedestal, and Ubuntu is in that category. There is no other free, open-source OS, if not project in general, that so dominates the press and mindshare of users. Half the world thinks it's the savior of all CPU-equipped mankind. The other half not so much.
But when you're on top, people want to put their foot in the lane and watch you trip. That's just the way it is.
I'm among those who believe in using what works, and as far as distributions/projects and applications go, that varies greatly depending on the hardware involved and the tasks at hand.
We've all spent time trying to slam square pegs into round holes (and trotting out cliches about same). Keeping an open mind (and a stack writable discs) will expand your technological horizons and maybe save you a lot of pain.
Ubuntu is at a critical point in its evolution. At this point thinking that it could fade into the distance and lose its dominance is firmly in the realm of "crazy talk." But nothing lasts forever (except maybe Slackware and Debian ...), and whether or not Ubuntu will remain the (contested but not really) No. 1 free, open-source operating system distribution and for how long depends greatly on the decisions and conduct of parent company Canonical.
Users are fickle. Or at least I am.
But when you're on top, people want to put their foot in the lane and watch you trip. That's just the way it is.
I'm among those who believe in using what works, and as far as distributions/projects and applications go, that varies greatly depending on the hardware involved and the tasks at hand.
We've all spent time trying to slam square pegs into round holes (and trotting out cliches about same). Keeping an open mind (and a stack writable discs) will expand your technological horizons and maybe save you a lot of pain.
Ubuntu is at a critical point in its evolution. At this point thinking that it could fade into the distance and lose its dominance is firmly in the realm of "crazy talk." But nothing lasts forever (except maybe Slackware and Debian ...), and whether or not Ubuntu will remain the (contested but not really) No. 1 free, open-source operating system distribution and for how long depends greatly on the decisions and conduct of parent company Canonical.
Users are fickle. Or at least I am.
Quoting:I prefer unsliced loaves.
Normally I'd concur, but the last time I bought a multigrain sourdough, the guy offered to slice it, and I agreed.
What a time- and crumb-saver. Sliced bread - it's what's for breakfast.
Then maybe you can tell me if this Bovril stuff is any good with the breads, because I want to try some, but wondering if its worth while ordering online since its not sold in US.
@helios: i have nothing against debian the distro. just some of its users. i spent a few days hanging out in their forums, and have to say it wasn't the best experience i've ever had.
before any of you label me an ubuntu fanboy, i have tried at least 40 different distros, and use fedora and ubuntu on my desktop, and puppy 4 on my lappie. i only use what works best, and most of the time that is ubuntu. if you disagree that's ok, but i would be willing to bet money that if we lined up 20 different pc's, ubuntu would work the best "out of the box" than any other distro. whether or not you like ubuntu is another story.
before any of you label me an ubuntu fanboy, i have tried at least 40 different distros, and use fedora and ubuntu on my desktop, and puppy 4 on my lappie. i only use what works best, and most of the time that is ubuntu. if you disagree that's ok, but i would be willing to bet money that if we lined up 20 different pc's, ubuntu would work the best "out of the box" than any other distro. whether or not you like ubuntu is another story.
Bovril: sounds meaty - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovril
> What a time- and crumb-saver. Sliced bread - it's what's for breakfast.
There's a reason that the generation that created "sliced bread" made the saying, "greatest thing since sliced bread".
They knew of what they speak!
There's a reason that the generation that created "sliced bread" made the saying, "greatest thing since sliced bread".
They knew of what they speak!
Quoting:Ubuntu 10.04 is so bad on my wife's netbook that I now use Windows 7.
The logic of that decision escapes me.
> I don't know anyone like that jdixon, do you?
I don't know many Ubuntu users in person, but I do know one, and he's never tried another distro. To be fair, Ubuntu works for him, so he's had no need to do so.
For me, Slackware simply works better. But that's at least partially because I have a lot of experience making it do what I want.
However, I was simply meeting hyperbole with hyperbole. Ubuntu is good, but it's not "the greatest thing since sliced bread", and claims that it is sometimes cause me to overreact, especially when they put down one or more other distros. That's true in this case.
> They knew of what they speak!
Yeah. Fresh baked bread is better, but only while it's fresh. The only thing which really beats sliced bread is indoor plumbing.
I don't know many Ubuntu users in person, but I do know one, and he's never tried another distro. To be fair, Ubuntu works for him, so he's had no need to do so.
For me, Slackware simply works better. But that's at least partially because I have a lot of experience making it do what I want.
However, I was simply meeting hyperbole with hyperbole. Ubuntu is good, but it's not "the greatest thing since sliced bread", and claims that it is sometimes cause me to overreact, especially when they put down one or more other distros. That's true in this case.
> They knew of what they speak!
Yeah. Fresh baked bread is better, but only while it's fresh. The only thing which really beats sliced bread is indoor plumbing.
> The logic of that decision escapes me.
I don't get to use it very often. When I do, which is usually after dinner, I don't really have the opportunity to put a new distro on it. But when I'm playing with my son and take a two minute break to check my email, it gets annoying when it locks up. It's easier just to boot into Windows.
I'm thinking I'll give Mandriva a try when I finally get the opportunity.
I don't get to use it very often. When I do, which is usually after dinner, I don't really have the opportunity to put a new distro on it. But when I'm playing with my son and take a two minute break to check my email, it gets annoying when it locks up. It's easier just to boot into Windows.
I'm thinking I'll give Mandriva a try when I finally get the opportunity.
@ Gary, depends on what you define as 'the best' OOB support. Not knocking your choice, but the fanboi grates. DVD, 3D acceleration, Full on desktop bling (side effect of 3D) are all most noticeably lacking OOB even though others can and do provide it 'OOB'. Making undefined claims as 'the best' leaves the discussion rather open to unquantifiable opinion.
Mind you 'the best' linux distro is the one that works best for you. I will congratulate you though in successfully changing the topic of discussion.
p.s. so there is no confusion, I define OOB as not needing an internet connection, what is on the disc as complete.
Mind you 'the best' linux distro is the one that works best for you. I will congratulate you though in successfully changing the topic of discussion.
p.s. so there is no confusion, I define OOB as not needing an internet connection, what is on the disc as complete.
[quote]
I'm thinking I'll give Mandriva a try when I finally get the opportunity.
[quote]
Mandriva with GNOME is looking very good, I'll have to try it on real hardware.
Mandriva with GNOME is looking very good, I'll have to try it on real hardware.
My path in Linux was Slackware --> SuSE --> Mepis -->Debian
I tried many different distros over the last 13 years since kernel 1.9 and have enjoyed many. I tried Ubuntu early on, but never saw a reason to switch to it. I bought a laptop 3 years ago with Ubuntu pre-installed. It works great on the laptop and has been upgraded about 6 times but not yet replaced.
All of the machines at home are Debian except for that laptop. (I also recently loaded mint on an old computer for my In-laws. )
I probably would not have chosen Ubuntu if I bought a Windows laptop and wiped it, but Ubuntu wasn't too annoying and it worked. It still does.
Every distro has warts.
I tried many different distros over the last 13 years since kernel 1.9 and have enjoyed many. I tried Ubuntu early on, but never saw a reason to switch to it. I bought a laptop 3 years ago with Ubuntu pre-installed. It works great on the laptop and has been upgraded about 6 times but not yet replaced.
All of the machines at home are Debian except for that laptop. (I also recently loaded mint on an old computer for my In-laws. )
I probably would not have chosen Ubuntu if I bought a Windows laptop and wiped it, but Ubuntu wasn't too annoying and it worked. It still does.
Every distro has warts.
> ...but Ubuntu wasn't too annoying and it worked. It still does.
And that's a fair assessment of most distros.
> Every distro has warts.
Yep. And one person's warts are another person's features. Most users find Slackware's relative lack of gui configuration tools, lack of dependency checking, and limited precompiled packages undesirable. Others find that it gives them the control, simplicity, and speed they want.
And that's a fair assessment of most distros.
> Every distro has warts.
Yep. And one person's warts are another person's features. Most users find Slackware's relative lack of gui configuration tools, lack of dependency checking, and limited precompiled packages undesirable. Others find that it gives them the control, simplicity, and speed they want.
> Others find that it gives them the control, simplicity, and speed they want.
Golly, I wonder if that is why there is more than one distribution of Linux?
Golly, I wonder if that is why there is more than one distribution of Linux?
> Golly, I wonder if that is why there is more than one distribution of Linux?
Could be, Bob. Could be. :)
Could be, Bob. Could be. :)
Use PAE kernel to support 4gb+ RAM in 32bit linux.
This one is for newer users, so experts can skip the read.
Using PAE (Physical Address Extension) kernel will let you take advantage of more than 3.25gb of RAM while staying with 32bit.
However, its easier to install it after a fresh install of your distro because if you switch from the generic kernel to the PAE, you'll need to recompile (or uninstall and reinstall) your video card driver and a rare amount of apps as well.
For Ubuntu, you can install PAE kernel by: aptitude install linux-headers-server linux-image-server linux-server For Debian: aptitude install linux-image-2.6-686-bigmem (replace "2.6" with the current kernel version)
GRUB list will update and you can choose to boot between the generic or PAE kernel.
Using PAE (Physical Address Extension) kernel will let you take advantage of more than 3.25gb of RAM while staying with 32bit.
However, its easier to install it after a fresh install of your distro because if you switch from the generic kernel to the PAE, you'll need to recompile (or uninstall and reinstall) your video card driver and a rare amount of apps as well.
For Ubuntu, you can install PAE kernel by: aptitude install linux-headers-server linux-image-server linux-server For Debian: aptitude install linux-image-2.6-686-bigmem (replace "2.6" with the current kernel version)
GRUB list will update and you can choose to boot between the generic or PAE kernel.
Great point. I personally do not see any real performance increase between 32 and 64 bit Linux and by running the 32 bit system I don't have to fool with the flash drama. I am running an Opteron dual core overclocked to 2.5 gigs with 4 gigs of ram and installed the PAE kernel to get the full use of my ram. It took about 3 minutes including reboot.
Worked flawlessly and without the problems usually associated in upgrading the Kernel.
Worked flawlessly and without the problems usually associated in upgrading the Kernel.
Ok, TMX, just a small correction,
In Debian, it's called "bigmem". So something to the effect of linux-image-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem would be what to look for in aptitude, dselect, or whatever.
In Debian, it's called "bigmem". So something to the effect of linux-image-2.6.26-1-686-bigmem would be what to look for in aptitude, dselect, or whatever.
I use 64 bit Linux on my 64 bit quad core (core 2 Duo) laptop, I'm able to load upto 8 Gig of RAM on this machine (it's been nobbled to a max of 8 Gig, but I couldn't afford the next one up that allowed more RAM). I got this machine because it was the minimum I could get that allowed me to run mutiple Virtual machines.
It's true my partner barely uses the 3 Gig that's on her machine, And nor do any of my clients. BUT That's Not The Point. Ubuntu are advertising 64 bit Ubuntu in such a way it looks like there is something wrong with it. That's the point. They should stop doing this immediately.
It's hard enough to promote Linux without a major Linux vendor sending messages that Linux isn't quite good enough.
It's true my partner barely uses the 3 Gig that's on her machine, And nor do any of my clients. BUT That's Not The Point. Ubuntu are advertising 64 bit Ubuntu in such a way it looks like there is something wrong with it. That's the point. They should stop doing this immediately.
It's hard enough to promote Linux without a major Linux vendor sending messages that Linux isn't quite good enough.
They should re-word it, but this is the cold, hard reality:
Will 32-bits run on a 64-bit computer? Yes. Will 64-bits run on a 32-bit computer? No.
32 bits is guaranteed to run on either type, so 32 bits is the safe choice for installation. Not so for 64 bits. If you're a server admin, you probably already know that, but you're the minority-case for Ubuntu users.
Will 32-bits run on a 64-bit computer? Yes. Will 64-bits run on a 32-bit computer? No.
32 bits is guaranteed to run on either type, so 32 bits is the safe choice for installation. Not so for 64 bits. If you're a server admin, you probably already know that, but you're the minority-case for Ubuntu users.
No gus the cold hard reality is that Canonical appear to be appologising for Linux, as if Linu is not quite good enough, especially the 64 bit version. I bought my laptop a 64 bit machine with 8 Gig of RAM pre installed. The tec h at the company I bought it from installed teh 32 bit version of Ubuntu. When I complained I was told they only support 32 bit Ubuntu because 64 Bit ubuntu is not recommended for general computing, and it's the owners risk to install the 64 bit version.
Now there are two things that are really stupid here. 1/ What's the point of a computer with 8 Gig of RAM and an OS that can't address more than 4 Gig and 2/ the meme that Canonicals caveat creates.... That there is something about 64 Bit Linux that makes is a risk to use.
First it's no more risky than any other version of Linux, and far less risky than any version of Windows I've installed, that includes 7 and Sever 2008.
The text needs to be changed to better inform, rather than create a misunderstanding, as it does now.
Now there are two things that are really stupid here. 1/ What's the point of a computer with 8 Gig of RAM and an OS that can't address more than 4 Gig and 2/ the meme that Canonicals caveat creates.... That there is something about 64 Bit Linux that makes is a risk to use.
First it's no more risky than any other version of Linux, and far less risky than any version of Windows I've installed, that includes 7 and Sever 2008.
The text needs to be changed to better inform, rather than create a misunderstanding, as it does now.
Like I said, they should re-word it. It shouldn't be an apology.
But yes, there is a risk with 64-bit Linux. There is a risk with 64-bit anything.
But yes, there is a risk with 64-bit Linux. There is a risk with 64-bit anything.
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