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Things You Can't Do With a GUI: Finding Stuff on Linux
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Comments (19)
[serious]
For this command, why isn't the seventh column showing (time):
In addition, in my file output I only have eight columns under Mint 10. Does that reflect a difference in a server vs. a desktop system?
[Within the quote, I had to add an extra carriage return to put the second file on a separate line.]
[/serious]
For this command, why isn't the seventh column showing (time):
Quoting:$ ls -lrt | awk '{print $6" "$7" "$9 }' | grep 'May 22'
May 22 file_a.txt
May 22 file_b.txt
In addition, in my file output I only have eight columns under Mint 10. Does that reflect a difference in a server vs. a desktop system?
[Within the quote, I had to add an extra carriage return to put the second file on a separate line.]
[/serious]
MBT, the ls command behaves differently on different distros, which I never noticed before. That's why breaking down these long command strings and running them in chunks is the fast way to see what's going on. On my Debian box the date is displayed as May 22, on Ubuntu it's 2011-05-22, and the number of columns is different. So if you run just ls -lrt you'll see what your system does, and then you can adjust your other variables. On Ubuntu it looks like this:
ls -lrt | awk '{print $6" "$8 }'| grep '06-03'
2011-06-03 monowall.html
2011-06-03 monowall2.html
2011-06-03 10-best-never-heard-of.html
ls -lrt | awk '{print $6" "$8 }'| grep '06-03'
2011-06-03 monowall.html
2011-06-03 monowall2.html
2011-06-03 10-best-never-heard-of.html
Most distros create aliases for some of the more common commands to make them more "user friendly". One common one is to alias rm to rm -i to make it ask you before it deletes a file. They probably do the same thing to ls. I think Slackware aliases ls to ls --color, for example. The aliases should be set somewhere in your logon scripts, but since they vary so much from distro to distro, there's no telling where that might be.
This might shed some light about Formatting file timestamps
info coreutils 'ls invocation' then enter /date
info coreutils 'ls invocation' then enter /date
Quoting: 10.1.6 Formatting file timestamps ---------------------------------
By default, file timestamps are listed in abbreviated form. Most locales use a timestamp like `2002-03-30 23:45'. However, the default POSIX locale uses a date like `Mar 30 2002' for non-recent timestamps, and a date-without-year and time like `Mar 30 23:45' for recent timestamps.
A timestamp is considered to be "recent" if it is less than six months old, and is not dated in the future. If a timestamp dated today is not listed in recent form, the timestamp is in the future, which means you probably have clock skew problems which may break programs like `make' that rely on file timestamps.
Time stamps are listed according to the time zone rules specified by the `TZ' environment variable, or by the system default rules if `TZ' is not set. *Note Specifying the Time Zone with `TZ': (libc)TZ Variable. ...
@Txt,
Your last quote tag is screwing up all the comments in the thread, would you get "really serious" and fix the don thing! Thank you.
Your last quote tag is screwing up all the comments in the thread, would you get "really serious" and fix the don thing! Thank you.
@Txt,
Unless it is intentional to annoy the heck of everyone!! :)
Unless it is intentional to annoy the heck of everyone!! :)
Dear Footsie,
Sorry I cannot comply, since I reserve "really serious" tags for discussions where my words and past behaviour might imply some ambiguity in the mind of the reader. However, in this case, it should suffice to use just the "serious" tag along with a pure technical question to reinforce or make obvious my true intention.
As always,
YBT
P.S. Can I be allowed to use Bling* to look up the meaning of your alias?
* What it should have been named. As Bling it would have killed off Google.
Sorry I cannot comply, since I reserve "really serious" tags for discussions where my words and past behaviour might imply some ambiguity in the mind of the reader. However, in this case, it should suffice to use just the "serious" tag along with a pure technical question to reinforce or make obvious my true intention.
As always,
YBT
P.S. Can I be allowed to use Bling* to look up the meaning of your alias?
* What it should have been named. As Bling it would have killed off Google.
jimbauwens: Oh, you don't want to poke into that pile of feces!
Linux features a medieval keyboard / time localization system which is best left alone.
Sometimes, for some stupid behaviour hardcoded into the kernel, there isn't an answer except for 'because some medieval failure nobody cares about today once behaved stupid, and because Linus decided so' --> Refer to "Why doesn't the backspace key generate backspace by default?"
But you're asking, so anyway...
Who could tell this better, than man does. Of course, women could explain it just as well, but on this system "man" doesn't seem to be aliased...
So, from "man 7 locale", may I present you:
Believe me, the GNU people put a lot of efforts into this whole 'locale' project, but it's so darn huge I'm always lost when trying to comprehend, and what I want always just doesn't want to be possible - at least not on even days of the month.
Back to your PC: What does 'locale' show when you type it in the CLI?
For my Gentoo desktop, as I detest locales, it shows this:
Which is really boring. But probably, if you have installed Ubuntu using the installer, chances are it was very creative and gave you a really nice listing!
Probably, you want to be looking at 'LC_TIME'. Maybe it puts your time in Belgian (or should I say Flandrian?) format, because you told Ubuntu that was where you are based.
These settings normally are sourced from some initalization file, which may or may not reside in /etc/env.d. On Gentoo it is, but that's of no particular use to Ubuntu users.
As I'm not lazy today, only in ranting mode and stressed out because migration to KMail2 just went pretty wrong, kwallet doesn't boot nor accept my password, and the whole thing is a pile of garbage, but again because I'm not lazy today, I tried it on my Debian VPS. Which shows this:
Like you see, I did my very best to keep it as boring as possible - using standard locales wherever I could.
Maybe some more explanation as to why I detest the freaking things: Once I tried sorting out how they work and using them to my advantage, but then all kind of strange things started to happen, and it still gives me nightmares! The very same is true on Windows, once my entire document system (PLM) stopped working as I told Windows I was based in the Netherlands, and wanted a comma as a decimal separator. Better stay clear of it! Not to mention termcap. But also on Debian Linux (or so, mayde it was Ubuntu), spending over two days trying to fix garbled Midnight Commander output. Sadly, I can't post a screenshot, as today it seems for a change, my mc decided to show "jut fine, like it ought to". Hmm, odd.
Anyway, it seems there are some plain text configuration files and you can compile them to 'locale'-files.
On Debian, I found something in /etc/default/locale. The file only says:
LANG=en_US.UTF-8
Again, pretty boring.
When you do an (s)locate for 'locale', you get tons of them! "man 5 locale" and "man 7 locale" give lots of gory details, probably more than you ever wanted to know.
You can google around a bit, and find pages like this one, telling about Debian and locales.
Linux features a medieval keyboard / time localization system which is best left alone.
Sometimes, for some stupid behaviour hardcoded into the kernel, there isn't an answer except for 'because some medieval failure nobody cares about today once behaved stupid, and because Linus decided so' --> Refer to "Why doesn't the backspace key generate backspace by default?"
But you're asking, so anyway...
Who could tell this better, than man does. Of course, women could explain it just as well, but on this system "man" doesn't seem to be aliased...
So, from "man 7 locale", may I present you:
Quoting:A locale is a set of language and cultural rules. These cover aspects such as language for messages, different character sets, lexicographic conventions, etc. A program needs to be able to determine its locale and act accordingly to be portable to different cultures.
Believe me, the GNU people put a lot of efforts into this whole 'locale' project, but it's so darn huge I'm always lost when trying to comprehend, and what I want always just doesn't want to be possible - at least not on even days of the month.
Back to your PC: What does 'locale' show when you type it in the CLI?
For my Gentoo desktop, as I detest locales, it shows this:
LANG= LC_CTYPE="POSIX" LC_NUMERIC="POSIX" LC_TIME="POSIX" LC_COLLATE="POSIX" LC_MONETARY="POSIX" LC_MESSAGES="POSIX" LC_PAPER="POSIX" LC_NAME="POSIX" LC_ADDRESS="POSIX" LC_TELEPHONE="POSIX" LC_MEASUREMENT="POSIX" LC_IDENTIFICATION="POSIX" LC_ALL=
Which is really boring. But probably, if you have installed Ubuntu using the installer, chances are it was very creative and gave you a really nice listing!
Probably, you want to be looking at 'LC_TIME'. Maybe it puts your time in Belgian (or should I say Flandrian?) format, because you told Ubuntu that was where you are based.
These settings normally are sourced from some initalization file, which may or may not reside in /etc/env.d. On Gentoo it is, but that's of no particular use to Ubuntu users.
As I'm not lazy today, only in ranting mode and stressed out because migration to KMail2 just went pretty wrong, kwallet doesn't boot nor accept my password, and the whole thing is a pile of garbage, but again because I'm not lazy today, I tried it on my Debian VPS. Which shows this:
LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TIME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" LC_PAPER="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US.UTF-8" LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ALL=
Like you see, I did my very best to keep it as boring as possible - using standard locales wherever I could.
Maybe some more explanation as to why I detest the freaking things: Once I tried sorting out how they work and using them to my advantage, but then all kind of strange things started to happen, and it still gives me nightmares! The very same is true on Windows, once my entire document system (PLM) stopped working as I told Windows I was based in the Netherlands, and wanted a comma as a decimal separator. Better stay clear of it! Not to mention termcap. But also on Debian Linux (or so, mayde it was Ubuntu), spending over two days trying to fix garbled Midnight Commander output. Sadly, I can't post a screenshot, as today it seems for a change, my mc decided to show "jut fine, like it ought to". Hmm, odd.
Anyway, it seems there are some plain text configuration files and you can compile them to 'locale'-files.
On Debian, I found something in /etc/default/locale. The file only says:
LANG=en_US.UTF-8
Again, pretty boring.
When you do an (s)locate for 'locale', you get tons of them! "man 5 locale" and "man 7 locale" give lots of gory details, probably more than you ever wanted to know.
You can google around a bit, and find pages like this one, telling about Debian and locales.
Oh, now I comprehend; just like there's ARMEL, you have "Jimel" time, where "el" is for Little Endian.
Seems the fault of Debian, mine is also in JIMEL-format:
and here is Gentoo's POSIX one:
As you might not expect, the Gentoo output is less consistent but more user friendly IMNSHO.
Seems the fault of Debian, mine is also in JIMEL-format:
drwxr-xr-x 9 root root 4096 2011-03-05 16:38 X11 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-03-27 15:37 menu drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-03-27 15:37 menu-methods drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-03-27 15:37 bash_completion.d drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 2011-03-27 15:37 apt -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2501 2011-06-17 19:30 hosts.allow
and here is Gentoo's POSIX one:
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 235 Aug 26 2007 00basic -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 139 Jan 25 2008 02distcc -rw-r----- 1 root root 0 Jun 9 2008 02locale -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 79 Jan 14 2009 20java-config drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jun 6 2009 cblas -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 35 Oct 26 2009 70klibc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 71 Mar 6 2010 99fltk-1.1 ... -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 59 Mar 16 03:43 50gconf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 33 Mar 16 04:52 08xulrunner -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 44 Mar 17 17:39 37fontconfig drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Mar 17 18:37 gcc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 269 Mar 17 18:37 05gcc-i686-pc-linux-gnu -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 37 Mar 17 19:05 00glibc -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 14 Mar 17 19:17 50gtk2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 140 Mar 17 19:34 03opengl -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 88 Mar 17 19:37 90nss -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 22 Mar 17 19:50 44qt4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 29 Apr 5 18:07 90virtualbox -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 55 Jun 17 18:08 43kdepaths
As you might not expect, the Gentoo output is less consistent but more user friendly IMNSHO.
Sorry for wasting lots of space, but I was wrong... It seems it's lots simpler - or much more complex. Debian nowadays defaults to "ls --time-style=long-iso".
Here it is:
http://people.debian.org/~osamu/pub/po4a/html/ch09.en.html#_...
So, Debian is both hard to understand and inconsistent. While Gentoo just uses POSIX.
Hey, did I tell recently, "many times I don't like Debian because many times it's stupid, and many times Gentoo is more user friendly?"
Think I should.
Here it is:
http://people.debian.org/~osamu/pub/po4a/html/ch09.en.html#_...
Quoting:The actual default display format for each locale depends on the version of the standard C library (the libc6 package) used. I.e., different releases of Debian had different defaults.
So, Debian is both hard to understand and inconsistent. While Gentoo just uses POSIX.
Hey, did I tell recently, "many times I don't like Debian because many times it's stupid, and many times Gentoo is more user friendly?"
Think I should.
Quoting:P.S. Can I be allowed to use Bling* to look up the meaning of your alias?
ahhh, Well, I guess you could use a search engine since you weren't able to guess it. But I rather prefer you use Google since Bing/Bling is not my cup of tea.
Now I am not sure if it is your comment that is causing the comments to be chopped off at the right, but if it is, be nice and fix your text in the "quote".
[serious]
I have seen comments being cut off previously, however, on this laptop with a 17 inch screen I am seeing no cutoff now. Moreover, since you are seeing my serious tags (only for me, not part of LXer) with the brackets, I doubt I am having an effect on the LXer display characteristics.
If you preview a comment, just above the comment being displayed there is a list of LXer tags and being [serious] should not be affecting LXer's visual characteristics. I thought you were joking, hence, I replied in kind. However, should you have a basis for believing my tags have a deleterious effect mention it to jimbauwens. It was my impression s/he worked on the code for the comments section. Or go directly to Bob, since I might be mistaken and he would know whom to contact.
[/serious]
I have seen comments being cut off previously, however, on this laptop with a 17 inch screen I am seeing no cutoff now. Moreover, since you are seeing my serious tags (only for me, not part of LXer) with the brackets, I doubt I am having an effect on the LXer display characteristics.
If you preview a comment, just above the comment being displayed there is a list of LXer tags and being [serious] should not be affecting LXer's visual characteristics. I thought you were joking, hence, I replied in kind. However, should you have a basis for believing my tags have a deleterious effect mention it to jimbauwens. It was my impression s/he worked on the code for the comments section. Or go directly to Bob, since I might be mistaken and he would know whom to contact.
[/serious]
YBT wrote:However, should you have a basis for believing my tags have a deleterious effect mention it to jimbauwens. It was my impression s/he worked on the code for the comments section. Or go directly to Bob, since I might be mistaken and he would know whom to contact.
First of all, I'm a he :) Second, I didn't code anything here on LXer, its all done by Bob and Dave, and Bob is the one you should contact for bug reports.
@Hans, Thanks for all the information!
And in case you are wondering, here is my locale:
LANG=en_US.UTF-8
My OS is English, as I hate Dutch :)
And in case you are wondering, here is my locale:
LANG=en_US.UTF-8
My OS is English, as I hate Dutch :)
@Txt,
I was mixing serious with joking but, after I inspected the code more closely, you will be happy to learn that your comment is NOT causing the cutoff. Sorry about that
Actually, It is both jimbauwens & hkwint due to the text copied from Terminal. Hopefully they will read this note and fix it by editing their comments by cut & paste from this page itself.
Sorry again.
I was mixing serious with joking but, after I inspected the code more closely, you will be happy to learn that your comment is NOT causing the cutoff. Sorry about that
Actually, It is both jimbauwens & hkwint due to the text copied from Terminal. Hopefully they will read this note and fix it by editing their comments by cut & paste from this page itself.
Sorry again.
Quoting:P.S. Can I be allowed to use Bling* to look up the meaning of your alias?
* What it should have been named. As Bling it would have killed off Google.
You mean it's NOT called "Bling"?
;-P
No wonder my (perverse, masochistic) attempts to at least try it out have failed so miserably!
Yeah, sorry, LXer eats carriage returns when it's hungry. It seems on odd days of even months it is hungry.
So if you copy/paste from the termenal, thou shalt use "code" tags (between square brackets) or come with something else, LXer's 12th commandment tells.
So if you copy/paste from the termenal, thou shalt use "code" tags (between square brackets) or come with something else, LXer's 12th commandment tells.
Not a big deal because when it happens, I use Ctrl - to zoom out as needed, or until text is no longer legible.
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I find this guide very useful, it will be a great help for me in the future :)
Btw, I noticed that the date format with 'ls -lrt' on my system (Ubuntu) is different than on yours:
server@uServer:~$ ls -lrt
I wonder where those settings are stored.