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Kubuntu Is Dead, Time To Switch To Linux Mint KDE, openSUSE?
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Comments (49)
29 earlier comments in the full thread.
@Bernard: From everything I've read, KDE4 is lower-resource than KDE3 was, except for the whole Nepomuk thing. Turn that off, and it should be faster. They've got videos showing KDE Plasma Active being used on a touchscreen phone (N900 I think), and it looks quite speedy. If it can run on a freakin' phone without performance problems, then I don't think "bloated" is an accurate term.
kikinovak: did you have a chance to look at Foresight linux yet? you will find that the conary package manager toolchain greatly reduces the effort to make a customized distribution. i'd be interested to know your opinion about it.
greetings, eMBee (member of the Foresight development team).
greetings, eMBee (member of the Foresight development team).
I need to give the plasma desktop another try - but unless it is optimised in some serious ways the desktop KDE is lacking it will be just as slow on my netbook with only 1gig RAM. KDE was taking over 400MEGS of RAM at startup last I checked.
E17 and LXDE both use under 100.
~Jeff
E17 and LXDE both use under 100.
~Jeff
Im loading up Linux Mint KDE at the moment on a VM so I can see what it consumes in the way of resources, I have 2GB of ram but that quickly dissapears when like me you use a VM to which I normally assign between 724MB - 1GB of ram so I need a DE that uses as little resources as possible or I end up in swap hell when moving between DE, Netbeans and VM
Even if KDE4 doesn't measure up in ram resource dept. I may still use the distro, remove KDE and use XFCE on it instead. The best i've ever acheived with a tweaked KDE4 is 356MB from a cold start on PCLOS so I will soon see if I can better that, Ive never found KDE4 to be a CPU hog so it has that going for it at least, I have an ancient 4Gh X2 Athlon, an NV6800 graphics card and it runs quite speedily on that with effects.
Hopefully its going to be a better experience than Linux Mint Debian Xfce which I have found to be buggy, and has far to many broken packages.
Update 1:
The news is good with only some basic tweaking on Mint KDE, from a cold start ram usage is 271MB cant wait to see what I can get it down to with some serious tweaking. Its a vast improvement over KDE 4.6.5 shipped with PCLOS wonder how much an upgrade to 4.8 will improve things by.
Update 2:
With further tweaking and an upgrade to KDE 4.8 on Mint I have got RAM consumption down to 256MB from a cold start this is definately the best I have ever achieved with any KDE distro.
The tweaks were as follows:
Disable nepomuk module and nepomukserver.
Disable akonadi and akonadi tray.
Disable bluetooth (i never use it)
Disabled all printer support, cups and printer applet (I dont have a printer)
Disabled mintupdate autostart.
Disabled synaptiks touchpad support.
And thats it.
Looks like im going to switch to KDE4 based on these figures still nowhere close to what I get with Xfce (150mb cold) but considering the amount of useful functionality that comes with KDE4 I think the trade off may be worth it.
Will do a proper install and see if I run into any swapping hell issues when used under my normal operating conditions.
Even if KDE4 doesn't measure up in ram resource dept. I may still use the distro, remove KDE and use XFCE on it instead. The best i've ever acheived with a tweaked KDE4 is 356MB from a cold start on PCLOS so I will soon see if I can better that, Ive never found KDE4 to be a CPU hog so it has that going for it at least, I have an ancient 4Gh X2 Athlon, an NV6800 graphics card and it runs quite speedily on that with effects.
Hopefully its going to be a better experience than Linux Mint Debian Xfce which I have found to be buggy, and has far to many broken packages.
Update 1:
The news is good with only some basic tweaking on Mint KDE, from a cold start ram usage is 271MB cant wait to see what I can get it down to with some serious tweaking. Its a vast improvement over KDE 4.6.5 shipped with PCLOS wonder how much an upgrade to 4.8 will improve things by.
Update 2:
With further tweaking and an upgrade to KDE 4.8 on Mint I have got RAM consumption down to 256MB from a cold start this is definately the best I have ever achieved with any KDE distro.
The tweaks were as follows:
Disable nepomuk module and nepomukserver.
Disable akonadi and akonadi tray.
Disable bluetooth (i never use it)
Disabled all printer support, cups and printer applet (I dont have a printer)
Disabled mintupdate autostart.
Disabled synaptiks touchpad support.
And thats it.
Looks like im going to switch to KDE4 based on these figures still nowhere close to what I get with Xfce (150mb cold) but considering the amount of useful functionality that comes with KDE4 I think the trade off may be worth it.
Will do a proper install and see if I run into any swapping hell issues when used under my normal operating conditions.
A couple of things:
1) Canonical is not pulling the plug on Kubuntu. They are pulling the plug on FUNDING Kubuntu, and turning it over to the community.
2) One can always install Ubuntu, and pull over the desktop *.deb's for Kubuntu, as you can do with Xubuntu, Lubuntu, or any of the other major respins. In fact, I've done exactly that (with Xubuntu) on the install of a 10.04 machine I have where any of the *ubuntu 11.10s failed to recognize a monitor (LCD TV) I use, and forced a 4:3 desktop.
So while even rats leave a sinking ship, it's premature to call for abandoning Kubuntu, if you like KDE. I rather think that being a community distro will actually make it more responsive to the users' needs.
1) Canonical is not pulling the plug on Kubuntu. They are pulling the plug on FUNDING Kubuntu, and turning it over to the community.
2) One can always install Ubuntu, and pull over the desktop *.deb's for Kubuntu, as you can do with Xubuntu, Lubuntu, or any of the other major respins. In fact, I've done exactly that (with Xubuntu) on the install of a 10.04 machine I have where any of the *ubuntu 11.10s failed to recognize a monitor (LCD TV) I use, and forced a 4:3 desktop.
So while even rats leave a sinking ship, it's premature to call for abandoning Kubuntu, if you like KDE. I rather think that being a community distro will actually make it more responsive to the users' needs.
Quoting:from this article
@TA,
Thanks for the link, I found these couple links related to this sponsorship BlueSystem & this KDE Mint and that is good news
Quoting:But I'm still not clear -- is the Plasma Netbook KDE a low-resource environment, or just a small-screen environment?
I don't have any metrics, but I recall some time ago that Plasma Netbook interface was created by removing various features that were not needed, and optimizing some code to work faster and better on lower resources devices. I am not sure how long this interface is going to be supported because the way I see it, and I could be wrong, it seems that the KDE team is going with Plasma Active for small form factor computers (Netbooks) & handheld devices (tablets & smart phones).
A lot of code optimization has been done in the Plasma Active Two Interface. In addition, many new Qt enhancements have already been used to make the interface faster, more feature rich, and reliable. As I recall, all these improvements are planned to be backtracked to the other Plasma interfaces, especially to the Plasma Desktop classical interface. Though that might not be until KDE 5.
Quoting:E17 and LXDE both use under 100.
KDE might use more resources than any other desktop, but the fact is there is no other desktop that has the features and functions that KDE offers. It is a matter of needs, requirements, preferences, and trade offs. Besides, with hardware resources getting more powerful in new computers & devices, yet prices going lower, it really doesn't matter any more.
Quoting:Its a vast improvement over KDE 4.6.5 shipped with PCLOS wonder how much an upgrade to 4.8 will improve things by.
I am running KDE 4.8 and I can tell you, without any figures, that 4.7.x & 4.8 are much more improved and streamlined.
One thing one needs to be careful about when evaluating KDE performance is what @Khamul said about Desktop Symantec search. In KDE 4.8, most of the performance issues were fixed, but initially, when the indexing is being done, one does notice a bit of drag. If you aren't going to use Symantec search, you can easily disable Nepomuk and its related utilities or limit its indexing scope.
Quoting:So while even rats leave a sinking ship,
Personally, I wasn't planing on that any time soon. :-)
In the last 12 years of using Linux, I only used two distros continuously , Suse & Kubuntu and I am not going to easily give up on Kubuntu yet. But KDE Mint is an option depending on their improved support of KDE and treating it just like the treat Gnome based Linux Mint.
Features? A motorcycle can go where very few cars can. Yet the car has more "features".
Quoting:Features? A motorcycle can go where very few cars can. Yet the car has more "features".
So true and even cheaper but, on a rainy day, good luck on your motorcycle. :-)
I agree with Steven_Rosenberg. Canonical did what is best for Canonical. That often is NOT what is best for the community. This is one such case. OTOH, one developer won't break Kubuntu. It will continue.
The Debian/apt package management system is not something I particularly care for. I've always preferred the way rpm packages are built. To me the only advantage at all for Debian and Ubuntu in regard to packages is that they have an awful lot of them in their repos and most (but certainly not all) are well maintained. The solution is to build packages for your favorite distro that's short in that area. If everyone who could did just a handful of favorites the repos in question wouldn't be short stocked at all.
I like the way a few Slackware derivatives (SalixOS, VectorLinux) have handled the package "shortage". They built graphical tools to make download, compilation and packaging point and click in most cases. I'm particularly impressed with Sourcery. Add that to the SalixOS repos and suddenly the package selection doesn't look bad at all. Oh, and yes, SalixOS has a very nice KDE version :)
The Debian/apt package management system is not something I particularly care for. I've always preferred the way rpm packages are built. To me the only advantage at all for Debian and Ubuntu in regard to packages is that they have an awful lot of them in their repos and most (but certainly not all) are well maintained. The solution is to build packages for your favorite distro that's short in that area. If everyone who could did just a handful of favorites the repos in question wouldn't be short stocked at all.
I like the way a few Slackware derivatives (SalixOS, VectorLinux) have handled the package "shortage". They built graphical tools to make download, compilation and packaging point and click in most cases. I'm particularly impressed with Sourcery. Add that to the SalixOS repos and suddenly the package selection doesn't look bad at all. Oh, and yes, SalixOS has a very nice KDE version :)
caitlyn: packaging with conary is also very easy. in most cases it just takes 2 or 3 lines to write (the name, the version and the baseurl for the download of the source)
greetings, eMBee.
greetings, eMBee.
@Fettoosh: I've commuted on motorcycle through LA winters (intensely rainy at times); you put up with the rain filling up your knee-boots and chill winds through the passes while you look forward to some hot coffee at the end of the ride, but you get there. It's snow and ice that's dangerous.
Quoting:thanks, but i'll be okay
I said rainy not sweltering sunny day. The third one I guess would work OK, but it is ugleeey taco-truck!?. Any way Thanks for the ideas. :-)
Quoting:I agree with Steven_Rosenberg. Canonical did what is best for Canonical.
I guess I tried to the same in my original comment, yup, I did "I am not sure what triggered this development, but I believe Canonical is trying to protect their investment."
Quoting:The Debian/apt package management system is not something I particularly care for.
I do, and Debian apt can generate a .deb file out of an .rpm file. I haven't used rpm since the days I used Suse and I am not sure if it is possible to generate a .rpm file out of .deb.
Quoting:I've commuted on motorcycle through LA winters .... It's snow and ice that's dangerous.
You remind me of my father. He commuted to work every day all his life on bicycle in the Mediterranean climate (much more rain than LA). And you are right, snow & ice are more dangerous. I ought to know that since I live in Michigan.
@Fettoosh
I believe Alien can do .deb to .rpm and vice versa.
I believe Alien can do .deb to .rpm and vice versa.
@Koriel
Alien's hit or miss as to whether it can get a particular package to work. Actually, from my experience, more miss than hit.
Alien's hit or miss as to whether it can get a particular package to work. Actually, from my experience, more miss than hit.
fettoosh: although i have never come across anything as odd as the first one, i did use the second one when it was raining. (ok, it was light rain, i wouldn't use it in a storm)
greetings, eMBee.
greetings, eMBee.
Now I know what Mary Poppins would drive.
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Good link to that Linux User article. It seems to me that Shuttlebigworth is sure putting his bigmoney where his mouth is, and officially letting KUbuntu fly away from Canitbecomical (Canonical) into void known as "The Community"!! Before your snippet is the comment-question from Phil:"how can you expect some success to Kubuntu with the little love Cannonical always show to KDE? Kubuntu always had a lot of problems and bugs not related to KDE that other kde-friendly distros never had..." Whew, says it all!
Double +1 to Khamul and others for the shift to Linux Mint KDE and other distros. You just KNOW that it's going to happen sooner or later.
-fb