- Site menu:
- Latest Discussions
- Latest Newswire
- Archives
- Submit Story
- Story HOWTO
- Syndicate
- E-mail Alerts
Microsoft may lock out other OSes with Windows 10
It looks likely that some Windows 10 machines will be made to run Windows 10 and nothing else. OEMs will have the option to make it impossible to install other operating systems, according to slides shown off by Microsoft at a conference in China. |
|
|
Comments (58)
38 earlier comments in the full thread.
@jdixon:
I don't think anyone would discourage re-purposing older or low-end hardware if that's required for budget issues or just recycling what is available...
I think the crux of the OP was *new* machines purchased from the original vendors.
@JaseP:
OK.
I don't think anyone would discourage re-purposing older or low-end hardware if that's required for budget issues or just recycling what is available...
I think the crux of the OP was *new* machines purchased from the original vendors.
@JaseP:
OK.
> I think the crux of the OP was *new* machines purchased from the original vendors.
Which would be preferable, if the new machines were affordable. But somehow Windows machines which are reasonably affordable continue to be sold, and apparently make money for their vendors.
Which would be preferable, if the new machines were affordable. But somehow Windows machines which are reasonably affordable continue to be sold, and apparently make money for their vendors.
@jdixon:
Yes. And that's because most people use Windows.
Chromebooks sell because most people use Google services.
And low-end OEM installed GNU/Linux laptops don't really exist in most countries, because no one [comparatively] buys those.
I would love for this to change - but it just ain't gonna change anytime soon.
Yes. And that's because most people use Windows.
Chromebooks sell because most people use Google services.
And low-end OEM installed GNU/Linux laptops don't really exist in most countries, because no one [comparatively] buys those.
I would love for this to change - but it just ain't gonna change anytime soon.
> And low-end OEM installed GNU/Linux laptops don't really exist in most countries, because no one [comparatively] buys those.
Otherwise known as catch-22. You can't buy what doesn't exist.
Otherwise known as catch-22. You can't buy what doesn't exist.
@jdixon:
The circular discussion about market based products... I really don't know if I believe in the "catch-22" anymore - but I know I did not too long ago. I've come to the conclusion that further circular discussion isn't going to make dinner -- but buying a product that has a serial number and a trackable volume that is tied to my preference of OS [on a high level - aka distro doesn't matter] has at least a small chance of making a difference in board rooms filled with decision makers with business degrees who really don't care what an OS might be - as long as it's making money for them.
If a particular individual doesn't have the available cash on hand to buy into the current high-end market, I certainly am not judging that person in any way. However, no OEM manufacturer is going to make product choices based on second hand product sales - in which they make no margin.
Anyway, this thread is getting too long... we'll need to start a new one sometime soon.
The circular discussion about market based products... I really don't know if I believe in the "catch-22" anymore - but I know I did not too long ago. I've come to the conclusion that further circular discussion isn't going to make dinner -- but buying a product that has a serial number and a trackable volume that is tied to my preference of OS [on a high level - aka distro doesn't matter] has at least a small chance of making a difference in board rooms filled with decision makers with business degrees who really don't care what an OS might be - as long as it's making money for them.
If a particular individual doesn't have the available cash on hand to buy into the current high-end market, I certainly am not judging that person in any way. However, no OEM manufacturer is going to make product choices based on second hand product sales - in which they make no margin.
Anyway, this thread is getting too long... we'll need to start a new one sometime soon.
> ...but buying a product that has a serial number and a trackable volume that is tied to my preference of OS...
As I've pointed out, I did that. Dell discontinued the model and the program, and not for lack of sales. All indications are that it sold fairly well.
As I've pointed out, I did that. Dell discontinued the model and the program, and not for lack of sales. All indications are that it sold fairly well.
> Dell discontinued the model and the program, and not for lack of sales. All indications are that it sold fairly well.
Then Microsoft stepped in, and made Dell an offer they couldn't refuse.
Then Microsoft stepped in, and made Dell an offer they couldn't refuse.
> Then Microsoft stepped in, and made Dell an offer they couldn't refuse.
Pretty much, yes.
Pretty much, yes.
In my experience, it's still hard to find Linux pre-installs with a combination of build quality, cost, and features that match some Windows machines you can get whether you go high end or not.
Dell: The prices are getting better for their high-end Linux pre-installs, but they're not fantastic (let me make it clear that these machines are even more expensive with Windows), and their customer service hasn't gotten glowing reviews.
System76: I've never seen Clevo equipment with good build quality. I'd love for this to have changed, but my research doesn't support this so far.
ZaReason: I've been under the impression that they sell Clevo equipment as well. Is this the case?
ThinkPenguin: Some of their equipment is interesting, but I'm wary without knowing what ODMs they use (Clevo is popular, and others aren't necessarily better).
High end laptops are expensive to experiment with, so I don't run out and buy all these things to figure out which are good and which are not so good. I haven't bought a new high end laptop in 6 years (primarily because the one I was using was still working very well up until a few weeks ago). It seems to me that Linux makes equipment a few years old feel like it's still high end, so I've been seriously considering a one-time high end, but now used/refurbished machine with no operating system.
The one reason I have to look into new equipment is the combination of power, portability, and battery life that only very recent equipment can provide. I have pretty good portability and battery life with my Chromebook converted to Linux, and the build quality certainly seems acceptable for $250, but power is somewhat lacking (though it's fine for most things), and the build quality of higher end machines is still appealing.
Incidentally, my experience has been that on machines a couple of years old or more AMD/ATI video works very well in Linux. On new machines that hasn't really been the case, but it seems that the point where these chipsets perform well with the open source drivers has gotten closer to current hardware in recent times. Hybrid graphics still seem to be a problem for both Nvidia and AMD though (perhaps more so with AMD).
Dell: The prices are getting better for their high-end Linux pre-installs, but they're not fantastic (let me make it clear that these machines are even more expensive with Windows), and their customer service hasn't gotten glowing reviews.
System76: I've never seen Clevo equipment with good build quality. I'd love for this to have changed, but my research doesn't support this so far.
ZaReason: I've been under the impression that they sell Clevo equipment as well. Is this the case?
ThinkPenguin: Some of their equipment is interesting, but I'm wary without knowing what ODMs they use (Clevo is popular, and others aren't necessarily better).
High end laptops are expensive to experiment with, so I don't run out and buy all these things to figure out which are good and which are not so good. I haven't bought a new high end laptop in 6 years (primarily because the one I was using was still working very well up until a few weeks ago). It seems to me that Linux makes equipment a few years old feel like it's still high end, so I've been seriously considering a one-time high end, but now used/refurbished machine with no operating system.
The one reason I have to look into new equipment is the combination of power, portability, and battery life that only very recent equipment can provide. I have pretty good portability and battery life with my Chromebook converted to Linux, and the build quality certainly seems acceptable for $250, but power is somewhat lacking (though it's fine for most things), and the build quality of higher end machines is still appealing.
Incidentally, my experience has been that on machines a couple of years old or more AMD/ATI video works very well in Linux. On new machines that hasn't really been the case, but it seems that the point where these chipsets perform well with the open source drivers has gotten closer to current hardware in recent times. Hybrid graphics still seem to be a problem for both Nvidia and AMD though (perhaps more so with AMD).
I bought a $300 Dell Win 8.1 on Black Friday because Wine mysteriously stopped running Quicken. The thing is so slow it can barely run Windows let alone a web browser. (Of course the worst feature is its chicklet keyboard.)
I also have a refurbished Thinkpad (because it has a real keyboard). With Windows, it couldn't hold a network connection for more than five minutes. After a few days of troubleshooting I fixed it by installing Linux. (Of course the hard drive died after kids dropped it too many times.)
I won't be buying any $1000 machine that comes with a chicklet keyboard.
I also have a refurbished Thinkpad (because it has a real keyboard). With Windows, it couldn't hold a network connection for more than five minutes. After a few days of troubleshooting I fixed it by installing Linux. (Of course the hard drive died after kids dropped it too many times.)
I won't be buying any $1000 machine that comes with a chicklet keyboard.
> I won't be buying any $1000 machine that comes with a chicklet keyboard.
I've always wondered about this with Mac buyers. And not only do most of the Mac keyboards have chiclets, they also lack a numeric keypad.
I've always wondered about this with Mac buyers. And not only do most of the Mac keyboards have chiclets, they also lack a numeric keypad.
I kind of had the same attitude about chiclet keyboards, but I have found that some chiclet keyboards are much better than others. Of course there is also an element of getting used to it involved. It looks as though soon we won't have any choice because just about all new laptops have chiclet keyboards. Really though, a good chiclet keyboard with indented buttons mostly just looks different than a traditional keyboard on a laptop.
Whether or not you want a numeric keypad on a laptop really depends on what your using it for. A lot of people who do a lot of touch typing on their keyboards don't like them much because they offset the keyboard from the screen. However, people who do a lot of spreadsheet work and/or gaming tend to prefer to have them. That's why you do see some high end laptops without numeric keypads. It's generally the business and gaming aimed units that have them.
Whether or not you want a numeric keypad on a laptop really depends on what your using it for. A lot of people who do a lot of touch typing on their keyboards don't like them much because they offset the keyboard from the screen. However, people who do a lot of spreadsheet work and/or gaming tend to prefer to have them. That's why you do see some high end laptops without numeric keypads. It's generally the business and gaming aimed units that have them.
I see all this brouhaha over laptops. Why?
Seems like a lot of you prefer laptops, for what reason I know not. Me, I'm looking for an iX Intel barebones to replace my ancient P4 desktop box. This looks good, but I've not researched other options, like CL and ebay, which my buddy assures me is a goldmine of used gaming boxes: http://tinyurl.com/lcphec9
The above is within my budget, yet, seems like a lotta goodies for not much $$$$. Am I stepping in it? This mobo got that UEFI nonsense. If not, I'm all over it! ;)
Seems like a lot of you prefer laptops, for what reason I know not. Me, I'm looking for an iX Intel barebones to replace my ancient P4 desktop box. This looks good, but I've not researched other options, like CL and ebay, which my buddy assures me is a goldmine of used gaming boxes: http://tinyurl.com/lcphec9
The above is within my budget, yet, seems like a lotta goodies for not much $$$$. Am I stepping in it? This mobo got that UEFI nonsense. If not, I'm all over it! ;)
I suspect that why laptops end up being a bigger part of the discussion when it comes to pre-installed Linux and related issues is because desktops are easy for a lot of Linux users. They just build them out of parts and don't worry about a whole package. It seems like my tendency is to build one and keep using it until I notice that it can no longer handle something on the Web or some game that I try to load on it. That usually takes five years or more. Then, of course, I have to familiarize myself with current technology before I can build a new one.
At a glance I don't see anything about the machine you linked to that would be likely to be a problem. Usually motherboards that are sold separately don't have Secure Boot, and UEFI without Secure Boot is generally not a problem for a modern distribution. My most recent motherboard is UEFI without Secure Boot. However, I'm not current on what's a good deal and what's not for desktops right now.
At a glance I don't see anything about the machine you linked to that would be likely to be a problem. Usually motherboards that are sold separately don't have Secure Boot, and UEFI without Secure Boot is generally not a problem for a modern distribution. My most recent motherboard is UEFI without Secure Boot. However, I'm not current on what's a good deal and what's not for desktops right now.
> I have to familiarize myself with current technology before I can build a new one.
Boy, howdy! I'm so out of date, hardware wise.
Jes looked up reviews for that particular mobo and it's not pretty. Looks like I'm gonna hafta settle for one piece at a time in building my d/t box. OTOH, did a cursory look on ebay. Wow. Lotta choices for cheap. I may hold out for a used i7 rig, after all. Even some laptops.
Boy, howdy! I'm so out of date, hardware wise.
Jes looked up reviews for that particular mobo and it's not pretty. Looks like I'm gonna hafta settle for one piece at a time in building my d/t box. OTOH, did a cursory look on ebay. Wow. Lotta choices for cheap. I may hold out for a used i7 rig, after all. Even some laptops.
> Seems like a lot of you prefer laptops, for what reason I know not. Me, I'm looking for an iX Intel barebones to replace my ancient P4 desktop box.
Laptops are for travel and use at work. I use a desktop at home.
The best barebones site is probably still NewEgg, but I haven't seen a really good one in ages. :(
However, if you missed the stories about it, you might want to check out http://symplepc.com/
Laptops are for travel and use at work. I use a desktop at home.
The best barebones site is probably still NewEgg, but I haven't seen a really good one in ages. :(
However, if you missed the stories about it, you might want to check out http://symplepc.com/
I'm not sure you can get a laptop today w/o a "chicklet" keyboard.
I'm with Jeff on this one. Chromebooks are great devices.
Chromebooks are great devices once you reflash them with pure Linux.
Post a comment
A free account is needed to post. Write your comment here first: your text is kept in this browser while you sign up or log in, and is waiting for you when you come back.
Your message:Markdown: **bold**, *italic*, [text](https://link), - lists, > quotes, $x^2$ for math. Formatting help
Sign up and post (it is free) or Log in and post
No logical inconsistency at all,... Hardware and software are two different things. System software and applications are also two different things... Buying systems specifically engineered to be compatible with Linux defeats the purpose getting the system software to run on all hardware. Buying (game) software promotes development/use of the platform... Again,... No inconsistency at all...