LXer Day Desk: The newest “Get the Facts” report
Note: You can find the full report of the study here(“Reliability: Analysing solution uptime as business needs change”). Though I did my best to represent facts and be unbiased in this article, I strongly advise and encourage you to read the report carefully for yourself before judging it. Please note, not the whole report is covered in this article. Title The title of the press release is, as almost always with the Get the Facts campaign, wrong. The study only researched Suse, and Suse is not the same as Linux. Independence The press release two days ago mentioned Secure Innovations (from now on abbreviated as SI) as an independent provider of application security services. How independent is independent in Microsofts (from now on abbreviated as MS) definition? At the SI site, we read: “Security Innovation is a certified Microsoft partner for security services. We have both the Microsoft SWI and ACE certifications as an authorized professional services provider for Microsoft technologies.” And further on: “Dozens of leading organizations, including IBM, ING, Microsoft, SAP, Symantec, Google, VeriSign and a number of government agencies, rely on Security Innovation’s expertise in application security testing and training to develop, evaluate and deploy more secure applications.” This means, MS is a client of SI, and SI is a certified MS partner. MS is even the first partner on the list. On the other hand, Novell isn't mentioned as a partner or client. For that reason, bashing Suse will get SI in less trouble than bashing Windows. At page 6, at the acknowledgements, we find: “This research and our analysis were funded under a research contract from Microsoft. As part of the agreement, we have complete editorial control over all research and analysis presented in this report.” No matter if MS influenced the research or not, if the research has an outcome which favours Suse over Windows, Microsoft won't pay SI for any new researches. So one may ask about the independence of SI in making this report. Relevance The research was about a simulation of a growing e-commerce application. During a year, three administrators used Windows, and three others used Suse to manage this application, while requirements grew. Now, how relevant is it, to judge the stability of an e-commerce solution based on the experiences of only six sysadmins? The report helps us out: (p35, conclusions, 2nd paragraph, end of 5th line) “While the sample size of administrators was too small to provide conclusive statistic comparison, the results highlight some off the fundamental differences in the Windows and Linux models.” Reproducibility For this e-commerce solution on Suse and Windows, third party software was used. The most important thing when doing research, is reproducibility. This means specifying the methods and material used as precise as possible. To quote Ph. D. Thompson from the press release: "Security Innovation designed this study to be repeatable”. Nonetheless, Appendix 5 states (3d paragraph, 4th line): “The specific 3rd party vendors are not disclosed, because the focus of the study is the methodology and not a specific component.” But if I take two sponges, put soap on one and mud on the other, and use them both according the same methodology to cleanse my window, everyone understands the results may differ due to the components used. The report states that the 3rd party components were chosen based on their market leadership in their respective fields, but nobody can verify this. Though appendices 3 and 4 list possible IT certifications the sysadmins participating in this study might have, this study doesn't mention anywhere, which certifications the participants have. Their competences and history in IT-business is also left out, and the study doesn't mention for how long this people have worked on the Linux / Windows platform, and what the actual jobs of this people was/is. This makes the study even harder to reproduce. Moreover, the study doesn't mention a maximum experience with the software, though it does mention a minimum experience. The minimum for “e-commerce experience” in this study was 2 years on a minimum of 20 servers, but this could mean the Linux sysadmin has 2 years experience with 20 servers, while the Windows sysadmin has 10 experience with 200 servers. The study shows, Suse needed more patching than Windows. The software included in the 'initial state (S1) setup' wasn't included however, which could mean, more applications were included on the Suse-platform then on the Windows-platform. The study also doesn't tell us if one of the platforms was optimized. In the past, it happened that a 'Get the Facts' report compared a optimized Windows platform against a non-optimized Linux platform, so this lacking information is important. Lacking info about the sysadmins Also, the names and contact information of the sysadmins isn't included. Now, SI will probably claim this is for privacy reasons, and the participating sysadmins aren't paid to answer questions anyone might have about this report. But it is a missed opportunity to prevent conspiracy theories. Because, we can't verify if this participants even exist in the real world, which means, we are not able to verify if there were real participants in this study at all. This could raise theories about the study not being done at all, and the report just being made up by its author. If we compare Windows Administrators Requirements (appendix 3) with the Linux Administrators Requirements (appendix 4), there are some strange differences in the years of experience required. For example, SI looked for at least 4-5 years experience on Windows (page 41, General IT background, second requirement), while they looked for at least 2 years on Linux (page 43, General IT background, second requirement ). Dependency issues The technical parts of the study focusses on dependency problems the Linux sysadmins encounter, while the Windows administrators don't encounter this problems. The study fails to mention,Windows 2000 may have dependency problems too. Anyway, the Linux-sysadmins faced problems because an 'updated enhanced search solution they needed' needed a newer version of glibc, which broke RPM and finally their whole platform. The study states they couldn't update MySQL using Yast, which sounds strange, but I won't go into this in detail since my lack of knowledge about this matter. But lets focus on something else. One of the Windows sysadmins had an issue with third party software, and contacted the vendor, after which the issue was solved (p33, 3d line). On the other hand, the Linux sysadmins, facing more problems, didn't contact the vendor of the search-application, and neither contacted Suse about this issue. This would have been a nice moment to upgrade to SLES 9, but they didn't, and broke their RPM tool. Two of the platforms were 'unrecoverable'. This is a strange idea, since any Linux sysadmin would make a backup before updating glibc, and after that, could use a LiveCD to recover the server and put all files back the way it was before updating. Since updating glibc is something 'large' in Linux, it could better be compared to installing a service-pack for Windows. As anyone probably knows, this always gives issues and solution-downtime too, so the comparison made in this study isn't that fair. Conclusions Facts of this study were distorted in the MS press release about it. The independence of the company committing this study, Security Innovations, is at least questionable. The sample size of administrators was too small to provide conclusive statistic comparison. The report provided far too less details too reproduce this study. System administrator requirements for Linux and Windows varied, and any information about the sysadmins isn't given. Sysadmin contact information wasn't included, and therefore, results can't be verified. Linux sysadministrators reacted a bit strange to the problems they encountered, and the comparison wasn't really fair, while it compared two updates of a different order. Therefore, this report is not really useful to base decisions upon, and if it was, only useful in very limited situations for very limited goals. One should read the story very critical before judging reliability of Windows compared to Suse. I also suggest taking a look at the Lxer migration list (sorted on distro, starting at Suse from halfway, continuing on the next pages). The list provide links to articles about, amongst others things, Novell (Suse) sucess stories, which includes companies telling why, for their companies, Suse works better than Windows. Related articles: |
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Comments (15)
Tom,
That's just a nice way of saying "Marketing".
:)
The study may have been accurate, but remember that when you pay for the study, you get to specify the parameters.
Like the cost comparison study Microsoft payed for comparing having your mail server running on Linux vs. using Exchange on Microsoft. The study showed Linux costing hundreds of times more than Microsoft.
The study was accurate. They were comparing the Commercial Bynari server running in a mainframe LPAR on Linux/390 to Exchange running on MS Server 2XXX on Intel.
This study might be "truthfull", but the parameters are set from the start by the party that commissions the study. The "analyst" group just follows the parameters, a little "shake and bake" in the testing labs, and Voila!
"Microsoft is better than Linux in task ."
No one has to lie or deceive, just set the tests up "correctly".
Quoting:Maybe SEL is poo, though I doubt it.
I think we can find the reason why they chose SLES on page 27, last paragraph, sixth line:
"At the time of SLES 8 release, all three components (AMP) were behind the most current versions..."
So they knew, it would require more updating then RedHat. This is the first time they don't pit MS against RedHat, so its suspicious.
Having worked on the LXer migration list, and heaving read a bunch of the 'succes stories' (Novel adds) and other Suse-stories, I think I can say, reliability is Suse's main selling point advertised by Novell, so they hit Suse where it hurts most.
But, I won't say anything else about Bynari.
I will say that Linux doesn't run as fast on a S/390 as a zSeries. It runs exponentially faster on an xSeries (Intel) box than an iSeries, pSeries or a zSeries.
I also took part in a lot of benchmarks of Bynari on IBM S/390's at IBM and depending on the benchmarking software, Insight server generally slows to about the speed of a 486 intel machine. Change the benchmarking software and make a couple of configuration changes on Insight Server and it runs like a bat out of h*ll.
Not marketing: making the results say what you want them to say.
I can do that too!
I think that that comparison was on cost alone, throwing the mainframe in the mix made the "Linux" mail server cost much more than the Windows.
Bynari and Linux cost less, it was the hardware specs that skewed the results.
"New study shows that Windows Vista and a pack of gum cost much less than Linux and the Wrigley Building."
While I agree that supportability is a major factor in upgrading a server OS, New feature requirements is also a major factor. This area is where Windows really lacks. There aren't very many new features between W2k & W2k3, just more bandaids and a pretty wrapper. You can't heal a wound just by changing from a Snoopy bandaid to a Scooby-Doo bandaid. Without proper care, the underlying wound just festers, waiting for an infection.
Also of note, none of the Linux patches were specified, making me wonder what patches were required. If they were specific to vulnerabilities, they should have been listed. If they were things like "Vim causes a buffer overflow when editing piped input from /proc/kcore, causing xmms to corrupt an id3 tag in the song currently playing", who cares? (note, this is a fictional bug, although I have seen similarly obscure bugs being reported). I recently upgraded my heavily modified Mandrake 10.1 desktop/server system to Mandriva 2006. Yes, I did run into some issues with components I had that were outside the distribution, but I planned for those before hand by installing them outside the normal distribution path (/usr/local). That way, I could figure out what components were broken, and what external components were integrated with the distribution and no longer needed. And if they really needed to upgrade glibc, why not install it locally to the application that needed it?
Not once in the study did it really go into performance, or reliability, areas that Linux really shines. I almost wonder if they even bothered using identical hardware.
As far as 3rd party developers using later rev's to develop their products, they usually do that due to major innovations in the newer software (MySQL 3.23 -> MySQL 4.1 had major feature changes to the core, increasing reliability and performance).
I have been a Linux user since 1996, and started doing Linux administration in 1999. I am completely self taught (go O'Reilly!), and have successfully rebuilt a CPU optimized distribution from source (Redhat 7.1), deployed an Apache/MySQL/PHP server, developed a few kernel drivers for in-house proprietary test equipment, and deployed a test farm of ~250 systems spread across 3 countries globally (before my job was outsourced - gotta love the corporate mentality).
Just a thought.
Man GrueMaster you are showing your age.... ;)
( http://www.eweek.com/category2/0,1874,1237915,00.asp ,3d page )
Ryan Gavin, Microsoft's Director of Platform Strategy, defended the need for the study, even if it was just a starting point.
"There is a big need for a larger understanding of how we think and talk about reliability and to have a consistent dialogue about what things matter when you are talking about a reliable system," he said.
"One of the reasons we worked with Security Innovations is because they are more academic and research-oriented and we wanted a repeatable methodology that could be applied again and again," he said.
We should send this Mr Gavin an (open) letter, and ask him about his ideas what he means with academic and repeatable, and the distortion of the facts in the press release. If anyone can find or knows his email, please let me know.
But an open letter would be fun, and a good vehical for making factual points. Whatever response they make is good for entertainment value, and not much else.
Quoting:"There is a big need for a larger understanding of how we think and talk about reliability and to have a consistent dialogue about what things matter when you are talking about a reliable system," he said.
This clinically pure and 100% arrogance. If you read this correctly, this guy is saying that "we" need to understand how "they" think and talk about things. That's someone who speaks as if he's entitled.
I would reply to this person: We don't need to understand how you talk and think. We would rather you take a spaceship to another planet and set up shop and walk around slapping each other on the back. I don't like your work and you have no right to demand I join it.
You know you have no security and you've been hiding the fact for years. You allow people with no technical understanding what so ever to surf the Internet with Netbios ports wide open and allow people to install rogue programs on others computers through your browsersn and email products.
Microsoft's response is just double-talk. They've sold their souls for a few temporal dollars.
"New study shows that Windows Vista and a pack of gum cost much less than Linux and the Wrigley Building."
You don't get the in-your-face perspective like this anywhere else but LXer. Number6x slammed the door on the comparison with 20 words.
helios
Quoting:Whatever response they make is good for entertainment value only.
Yes, you're right. When we need a funny story again, we should think of this lad.
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LXer Day Desk: 11-18-2005
The SUSE problems in the report sound bogus. As you said, any sysadmin worth his or her stuffed plush Tux knows how to handle a glibc upgrade, and what to do if it fails. And if they did have problems, why didn't they call Novell for help? Isn't that why you spend money for a vendor-supported distro?
"Security patches were applied in one month increments." Sure, why not give the black hats a window of opportunity.
But what I'm really wondering, is what were they doing? What applications were they running, for what kinds of jobs? Under what conditions, on what hardware? Maybe SEL is poo, though I doubt it. Maybe they're blaming SUSE for problems caused by the sekkrit 3rd-party software.
Anyway, 'funded by Microsoft' is pretty much all you need to know.