Poor Microsoft Gives Poor Software to Youngsters, Hopeless

Quoting:but the Uno bridges I've used for Ooo 2.0 and 2.2 are pretty atrocious to work with.

Uhm, yeah, please remind me to write about the improvements for OOo 2.4. Though I'm no programmer, even I could understand this multiple-inheritance thing makes all a lot easier. Easier doesn't mean it becomes simple though...

Please do. My main beef with UNO is that it imposes it's java-esque style of programming into any programming language that it supports. Doing java-esque programming in anything but java usually turns ugly very quickly. SWIG's main advantage so far is that it can also change the way the API is used in the target platform. C library APIs converted to Python with SWIG feel very python-y and nothing like their C counterpart.

There's a downside of course. AFAICT UNO works pretty much automatically. With SWIG you still have to write definitions for each target language. These defintions tell SWIG how to translate the C/C++ API into the target API. A simple example: You can tell it that for Python, all functions starting with gtk_window_ should be put in the module "gtk" as class functions of the "Window" object. That way, you could say in Python something like:

import gtk my_window = gtk.Window() my_window.some_function()

Oh yeah, it _is_ ugly, at least to my untrained eye. Something like

open.sun.instance.new_stuff_of_this. operation.create.new_class.thats_it

is quite common I believe. I don't know if that's what you mean with java-esque style of programming, but I whould die if I had to type that stuff to often, let alone read it.

Quoting:I don't know if that's what you mean with java-esque style of programming

Well, your example pretty much nails it :-)

Quoting:open.sun.instance.new_stuff_of_this. operation.create.new_class.thats_it

Is it Java-esque or JavaScript-esque? I'm a Java programmer and haven't written anything like that in years (since the last time I wrote an "import" statement by hand instead of Eclipse doing it for me). JavaScript, on the other hand...

Quoting:since the last time I wrote an "import" statement by hand instead of Eclipse doing it for me

So where were you been hiding when I was posting about my problems with Eclipse?

Quoting:So where were you been hiding when I was posting about my problems with Eclipse?

I don't know. When was it? :) I'm refraining from mentioning Java and my preferred IDE because in the world of freedom and choice is it too much of a flamebait and I don't like high temperatures (summer in somewhat chilly Poland is enough for me to melt). And I'd rather be programming in Haskell or Lisp ;)

Oh, BTW: Java-esque style would be more like: anInterestingObject.getThis(). .getThat().setSomething(fooBarBaz);

Quoting:anInterestingObject.getThis(). .getThat().setSomething(fooBarBaz);

That's just gross. Go wash your mouth. Or keyboard. Or whatever :-)

@juzuch

What's it like in your neck of the woods. The company I work for had a job application from someone in Poland, the bloke has a Masters in Computer Science, and was applying for a job as a Junior .Net programmer.

@tracyanne - I meet people like that all the time. There's a woman down the street here working a liquor store who holds a Master's in Comp Sci...she's Iraqi. (FYI: here in SoCal all convenience stores are liquor stores)

I was in for a gatorade or something and noticed she was reading an SQL book. We got to talking for 15 minutes or so. She was very bright, smarter than me, but her self-esteem was way down in the bottom of the barrel. Trying to get work through traditional channels is difficult if you don't have a recent track record. And being a woman in I.T. AND an Iraqi at this point in history in the U.S.A. has got to be psychologically debilitating. I guess I take it for granted that I can just answer an ad or get a referral and turn it into a productive opportunity. If you are new to a country and just want to get on your feet it's not a big surprise that you would try to grab anything to build a track record.

I'm going to hire that woman when the startup I'm with gives me a budget, even if it is just part time.

Quoting:The company I work for had a job application from someone in Poland, the bloke has a Masters in Computer Science, and was applying for a job as a Junior .Net programmer.

Hah, probably one of those young smarts that think that the ecosystem in Poland is anti-human and want to build New Poland somewhere abroad (they emigrate but never ever would assimilate). One of the leading items on the platform of recently elected government was pulling guys like those back from Ireland and Britain :) BTW: I'll have a Masters in CS in a month, too. Prospective employers welcome ;)

Quoting:There's a woman down the street here working a liquor store who holds a Master's in Comp Sci...she's Iraqi.

Poles were once famous for this. I heard a story about a woman who had a degree in Finance (!) and used to work in a bank and went to do cleaning houses of rich Jews in America... and was very happy with the money she got. There were jokes about doctors of philosophy and such working on construction sites... Well, I guess now Iraquis are inheriting this tradition.

@jezuch: I fail to see your point. You sound more than half-drunk with conspiracy theory. Are you in the U.S.A.?

Quoting:You sound more than half-drunk with conspiracy theory. Are you in the U.S.A.?

No, I'm half-drunk with history as told by my parents who witnessed the Solidarność movement and the collapse of Communism and the following transformation-era depression first hand. And with my own observations later on. I don't know what was my point either, actually ;) And no, I'm not in the USA. I'm still in a town near Warsaw.

@jezuch: I meant no offense, but your comments were quite callous. Your perspective and the social context under which you developed it are a far cry from the experience I tried to relate.

The point was probably just that it happens often to see foreigners with high (IT) education doing jobs which doesn't match their education at all.

Kinda like Aspen?

Quoting:The point was probably just that it happens often to see foreigners with high (IT) education doing jobs which doesn't match their education at all.

The thing is that they are happy to get *any* job in their field (or even any job at all), because it will be probably better paid than whatever they can get in their countries. It's not that it's so bad there (it's only a little bad), but that you people in the developed world are so spoilt ;)

Quoting:you people in the developed world are so spoilt ;)

Relatively speaking, I cannot disagree with you there. However, as the old saying goes 'the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence". The state of the Polish economy is not bad, relatively speaking. It's the "California" of Eastern Europe, is it not? I'd like to make it over there. My family heritage is Lithuanian, yet I've never visited the Baltic region.

Quoting:The state of the Polish economy is not bad, relatively speaking. It's the "California" of Eastern Europe, is it not?

I would say "almost" :) This is one of the biggest countries in the region and it has rather large inertia. AFAIK, Lithuania fares much better (small and nimble ;) ). I'm not an economist, anyway... But the economy seems to be pretty good indeed - what is rather amazing considering all the roadblocks (also literally). BTW: we prefer to say we're in Central Europe ;) The Eastern Europe is quite different culturally and Poland always was more on the West side.

Quoting:BTW: we prefer to say we're in Central Europe ;)

Agreed. "Eastern" is a relic expression from the Cold War era. Most Americans aren't aware of just how many "Eastern European" states re-emerged in the aftermath of the USSR. Names like Belarus and Ukraine confuse most Americans geographically.