Your experience is uncommon
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| amoralez Sep 27, 2005 1:27 PM EDT |
I understand your frustrations with upgrading to Windows XP and I appreciate the humor of a parody of the "Linux is [not] Ready for the Desktop" articles. However, most users of Microsoft Windows XP do not have the problems you describe because XP is pre-installed by hardware vendors like Dell and HP/Compaq. They ensure that most of the suffering you endured is not waiting for someone when they buy a new PC. |
| bstadil Sep 27, 2005 1:49 PM EDT |
Yet The very same argument is used against Linux when pundits claim Linux is not ready for the desktop |
| cjcox Sep 27, 2005 3:39 PM EDT |
Ever try to install Windows XP onto a machine where the disk drive controllers couldn't be seen AND the machine doesn't have a floppy because floppy drives are considered "legacy"? :) Windows XP even SP2 AFAIK, can only load extra modules via a floppy drive. |
| dinotrac Sep 27, 2005 4:24 PM EDT |
cjcox -- I don't quite understand about loading extra modules via a floppy drive. ??????? |
| cjcox Sep 27, 2005 6:29 PM EDT |
Windows XP.. .oddly enough... does have the ability to load driver modules before begining install so you can see little things... like the DISK! But, you have to load them via floppy. It's similar to how most Linux distributions allow you to load modules... but with XP, they have to be loaded via floppy. |
| dinotrac Sep 27, 2005 7:27 PM EDT |
cjcox -- Gotcha. My one and only XP install went very smoothly on a Dell Latitude notebook that had been certified for Win 2000. Pop the CD in and respond as needed. I imagine that, had that machine made XP burp, there wouldn't be a damned thing anywhere it could run on. |
| amoralez Sep 28, 2005 6:24 AM EDT |
bstadil -- I understand that the arguments the author makes are the same ones used by pundits explaining why Linux isn't ready for the desktop. Though Linux may technically be ready for the desktop, without PC vendor support it will not be accepted. Windows XP has Dell, HP/Compaq, and just about every other PC vendor installing it and handling the configuration hell that the author experienced. If a major PC vendor offered a pre-configured Linux PC then maybe a reviewer could say Linux is ready for the desktop. Until then most users will continue with Windows XP because it is pre-installed. |
| dinotrac Sep 28, 2005 6:47 AM EDT |
amoralez - The way things are today, XP is a rational choice for lots of people. XP usuallycomes with the computer...You don't have to go out and buy it. It seems free because the biggest and most cost-efficient computer makers bundle it while Windows-free boxes tend to be sold by vendors without the same costing advantages. Most people still know more places to turn for Windows help than for Linux help. That, I think, is an even bigger factor than pre-installation. Some software doesn't run on Linux. If you need to use something that doesn't run on Linux, you're left with whatever it runs on. |
| cjcox Sep 28, 2005 2:34 PM EDT |
dinotrac - What? So.. you're saying that the OLD hardware you have is recognized by WinXP... what about the hardware you get tomorrow?? Don't you see the problem here? This isn't Linux where you can get a new version every week. You'll have to wait for the next SP release potentially to get XP to see your brand spankin new Intel 7893 pin Yeon processor e9800 Intel chipset with ICH99 controller. Unless of course you bought a full machine in which case the OEM WinXP will likely have the drivers... BUT NOT the generic WinXP. I know this probably won't convince you... but it is a REAL problem and the solution is painful. |
| tadelste Sep 28, 2005 2:52 PM EDT |
Chris, Dino: Been trying to stay below the scrapnal line on this thread. Severian brought up an interesting point to me several times that might add some color to the whole conversation. What if you have a hard drive go out or upgrade a processor? What guarantee do you have that Microsoft will let you activate XP in the future? With Windows 2000 Pro and previous, that's not a problem. No support, OK. But with XP, you have the possibility that you'll H-A-V-E to upgrade. Forget the processor or hard drive, what about a barebones sa-system? You want to reactivate and the answer is (da da da da) no longer supported!!!!!!!!! Yea! How does that sit with you? |
| dinotrac Sep 28, 2005 4:38 PM EDT |
Tom, Cjcox: Look - I am not a Windows fan. Period. As I've said, over and over and over and over again, the only reason we have installed Windows on one of our machines is that my wife needs to run some software that doesn't run on Linux. Activation does trouble me and I don't trust Microsoft any further than I can throw Bill Gates's money. My experience is that XP makes a decent desktop OS. We have not been unhappy with it. Friends and family members seem able to get buy with their XP machines. That's not to say it's remotely perfect. It's not to say it makes as good a platform as Linux with KDE. But I have to shake my head as I read some of the comments here, having done many more Linux installs than I can remember, some smooth and some hellacious. Whichever side you start from, if you're going to chide the other for install problems, hardware compatibility, etc, your pot will be calling the kettle black. |
| tadelste Sep 28, 2005 5:30 PM EDT |
Dino: I wasn't criticizing you. I like Windows XP and plan to use it daily for things like posting on Lxer and writing articles, managing my new web server and installing RT for customers. My wife learned Linux while Sam and I wrote the book Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop. She won't give it up. It's also a pretty good desktop. I tried to get her to go with OS X and then SuSE 9.3, Novell Linux Desktop 9 and even Xandros. She just won't change. Hey, after all the trouble I went to with upgrading to XP, I really want to get my money out of it. So, what if Microsoft isn't ready for the desktop. I plan to stay with it. BTW, I'm kidding about XP but not about my wife. Secondly, regardless of how many nasty things people said about me, I am not a fanatic. I still have my original Windows 3.1 and addon 3.11 and DOS 5. I will not give that up. I also have two extra copies of Windows 95 if anyone wants one. Also, a bridge connecting Brooklyn and Manhattan ----- it's also for sale. As Rodney King said, "Can't we all just be friends?" |
| alc Sep 29, 2005 6:29 AM EDT |
Will you pay shipping on the bridge? :) |
| tadelste Sep 29, 2005 7:21 AM EDT |
I would split the shipping with the buyer, but it's already in place. Maybe next time. :) |
| TxtEdMacs Sep 29, 2005 9:29 AM EDT |
alc - I previously offered the same property for sale (exclusively on LXer), but to remove it from its present location obviates its inherent value, hence, that action immediately depreciates the value of your investment at a rate worse than driving a new car off a dealer's lot! Obviously an unwise move. Moreover, where else would you have the steadily rising traffic, the steady rising in toll collections and the experienced maintenance staff? Nowhere! |
| alc Sep 29, 2005 2:05 PM EDT |
Lake Havasu City, which got its start as an Army Air Corps rest camp during World War II, now has over 1000 businesses, two newspapers, and a college. Remember that the next time a man comes up to you and offers to sell you a used bridge. http://www.roadtripamerica.com/places/havasu.htm I live about 40 minutes from Disney World.We have the traffic,but maintenance could be a problem.I'll have to look into that. |
| tadelste Sep 29, 2005 2:32 PM EDT |
alc: I'll meet TxtEdmacs' offer on the bridge proposal and discount it 12%. But you can't tell him. |
| cjcox Sep 30, 2005 3:00 PM EDT |
My point is that Windows XP when it goes wrong... it goes wrong badly. Not being able to install a BOXED version of XP to me is a problem. So if you plan on ordering a white-box system WITHOUT OS... you may be surprised to find out the OEM/BOXED copies of WinXP might not install AT ALL. It's a frustrating thing. You call up the vendor of the white box (which could be somebody big, like Dell or HP even) and they tell you they can make the driver available. Great! Only there's a problem. The newer boxes may be "legacy free" and NOT have floppy. WinXP doesn't support driver loads without a floppy. So you're stuck. With Linux there are simply more avenues available. If you have a drive snafu, there's usually many ways to get around the issue. Linux doesn't suffer from the "floppy only" limitation. |
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