Wow, another article, another opinion
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| wind0wsr3fund Jul 25, 2006 11:01 AM EDT |
I can see nothing has changed since I ran with the issue several years ago. The biggest problem here is the lazy consumer who is all too quick to share their insightful opinion about the subject, yet never quite able to do any real work toward solving the problem. But I know this kind of statement is viewed as hostile among the defensive folk who do nothing. That said, let me just get out of your way so you can all get busy posting... |
| dcparris Jul 25, 2006 11:50 AM EDT |
> I can see nothing has changed since I ran with the issue several years ago. The biggest problem here is the lazy consumer who is all too quick to share their insightful opinion about the subject, yet never quite able to do any real work toward solving the problem. Are you calling the author a lazy consumer? My article suggests buying PCs without Windows, since Windows devalues your hardware to begin with. Either I've misunderstood you, or you need a refresher course in reading comprehension. |
| SFN Jul 25, 2006 12:24 PM EDT |
Quoting:But I know this kind of statement is viewed as hostile among the defensive folk who do nothing. I'd like to address that for a moment. I have an honest question. Not trying to be snide here. I am honestly curious. Do you not see your comments (not just here but in other threads as well) as pretentious? I'm trying to not focus on the content for a moment and just on the form. Let's suppose everyone here agrees that your comments are full of life's greatest truths. Do you not realize how incredibly full of yourself you sound when you post? |
| r_a_trip Jul 25, 2006 1:49 PM EDT |
't Is a weird thing if someone is advocating machines with bundled MS Windows just to be able to return the Windows disks, when one can fskip the whole MS Windows bundling by buying a machine without Windows. Irrational humans... I love them... |
| jdixon Jul 25, 2006 2:13 PM EDT |
> when one can fskip the whole MS Windows bundling by buying a machine without Windows. Or buying in kit form and assembling it yourself. Most of the better parts sites (I tend to use Mwave, http://www.mwave.com , but there are lots of others) let you order bare bones machines with or without Windows. |
| wind0wsr3fund Jul 25, 2006 3:48 PM EDT |
Writing articles and submitting forum posts do nothing to combat this issue. Building barebones desktops also does nothing. Stop complaining about the MS-Tax if you're not willing to do anything about it. |
| dinotrac Jul 25, 2006 3:56 PM EDT |
Hmmmmm. If I understand w3f correctly, nobody does anything about the MS-Tax unless they buy Windows PCs.... Now THERE'S an interesting concept. |
| grouch Jul 25, 2006 4:03 PM EDT |
dinotrac: That hurts my head. |
| dcparris Jul 25, 2006 4:37 PM EDT |
Well, I wasn't complaining about the MS tax - but mainly because I don't buy PCs with Windows pre-installed. Not that I buy PCs on a regular basis anyway, but I sure don't get 'em with Windows. My 2nd PC had a test Win98 installation simply so the local shop could demonstrate to me that all the hardware worked as advertised. I took the box home, blew it away, and installed a dual-boot config using a previously handed down copy of Win98 and Red Hat 5.1. I also ordered my refurbished laptop with no OS - and in my case got about $80 knocked off the price (since they hadn't already installed it). :-) Yessirree! I actually haven't paid the MS tax since Windows 3.11. :-D |
| jdixon Jul 25, 2006 5:26 PM EDT |
> Building barebones desktops also does nothing. Stop complaining about the MS-Tax if you're not willing to do anything about it. Building barebones desktops does nothing about the Microsoft tax? Since the builder does not pay the tax, but still supports the manufacturers and suppliers of his/her choice, I fail to see how that's true. As for the second sentence, show me one post here where I've complained about the Microsoft tax. Since I do build my own systems, I have no reason to complain about it. |
| jimf Jul 25, 2006 5:45 PM EDT |
Exactly what jdixon said :D |
| dinotrac Jul 25, 2006 6:06 PM EDT |
>Exactly what jdixon said :D Ditto, and ditto again, the dinotrac said. |
| grouch Jul 25, 2006 6:19 PM EDT |
I could be really slimey and point out that nearly every product or service you buy has a bit of MS tax in it. Somewhere along the way, from producer to consumer, the cost of licenses, license audits, downtime, data corruption, ad infinitum, touched the cost of that product. I won't be slimey like that, though. |
| theboomboomcars Jul 26, 2006 7:17 AM EDT |
It seems to me that the best way to deal with the ms tax is to support the companies that don't charge you it. If more people would buy from these companies and not from the big ones, the big ones would get smaller and the small ones would get bigger. That's one of the great things about capitalism, the consumer has the power. If we can get enough people to value their freedom enough not to use windows and to buy linux or no OS pcs the market will change. My wife didn't know about linux before I told her and now that she has seen what MS does, how they limit freedom, etc. and compared that to linux she will never go back and she talks to others about it as well. We are in a battle for freedom right now against companies and organizations like MS, the MPAA and the RIAA. Our major obstacle is not the power these companies are buying in governments its that most people seem oblivious to what is going on and not exercising their power, their dollars. Buying computers from Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. and seeking for a refund on the software you don't want isn't going to help much because they are part of the problem, they are the ones not offering choice to their customers. If they see a drop in customers they will try to get those customers back. But if they are still selling the computers and then having to give a small refund to some they have no incentive to change their behavior. Which is what I do believe Don was trying to say in his article. Mail in rebates are huge these days and the windows refund is nothing more than a mail in rebate it offers no incentive for the company to change their practices. We need to do what we can to get people to not buy computers from companies that do not offer linux or no OS systems, and let the companies know why we didn't buy from them, so they'll know how to get our business back. Buying a computer from them anyway and asking for a mail in rebate isn't going to help anything. |
| jdixon Jul 26, 2006 12:16 PM EDT |
Grouch: > I could be really slimey and point out that nearly every product or service you buy has a bit of MS tax in it. The same type of thing can be said about organized crime, repressive goverments, various religions, and pretty much anything else under the sun anyone objects to. Things tend to be interconnected in the messy world we live in. You do the best you can, worry about affecting things you have some control over, and let the rest go. Doing otherwise tends to cause more problems then it solves. |
| grouch Jul 26, 2006 12:38 PM EDT |
jdixon: Rube Goldberg would've hated your attitude. You just wait. As soon as I can get this stupid bowling ball to land with the 3 holes down so the rubber fake fingers tap out the 3-finger salute on the wireless keyboard transmitting to the cell phone tower across the river, you'll see those _legacy_ systems randomly rebooting all over the US. That should put a dent in the monopoly. I think the problem is with the hamster's appetite. He's just not enthusiastic enough when pulling the string. |
| dcparris Jul 26, 2006 1:11 PM EDT |
Why don't you unleash your snails? |
| jimf Jul 26, 2006 2:01 PM EDT |
> I think the problem is with the hamster's appetite. He's just not enthusiastic enough when pulling the string. Easy solution grouch, replace the hamster with a squirrel... Works every time :) . |
| grouch Jul 26, 2006 3:21 PM EDT |
The snails have been busy since Saturday, hauling packages to upgrade one of my computers from Sarge to Etch. (They say it will only take 15 hours more, but they're pretty nonchalant about time). Been waiting for DSL here for years. The telephone wires are the same, but the telephone company has changed from Contel to GTE to Verizon to Alltel to Windstream. The last improvement was made by Contel, long before there was a Web -- eliminating party lines and burying the cables so every little breeze or drizzle didn't disrupt service. Maybe if its successors-in-interest had paid less to get all those MS licenses and audits and viruses and IIS licenses and worms and downtime and data recovery and forced upgrades and spyware, one of them could have afforded to put a "remote office" within 18000 (line) feet of my telephone and a few hundred of my neighbors and I could join the 21st century with broadband. Meanwhile, I'm devising a way to catch a squirrel to trigger a bowling ball... |
| dcparris Jul 26, 2006 4:35 PM EDT |
My Pa, up in WV, had to resort to his cable provider. He was promised DSL some months ago - it just hasn't materialized. Anyway, he's 'up to speed' now. His racoons and skunks are much happier, now that they can spend less time helping him select the seeds for next years garden, and get back to raiding this year's crop. ;-) |
| jimf Jul 26, 2006 4:44 PM EDT |
He's better off with cable Don. I've been on cable broadband since they put it in here in Kenosha in 98, It's dead reliable and faster than almost anything else. If they offer the VOP phone option, he should take them up on that too. |
| NoDough Jul 27, 2006 5:22 AM EDT |
grouch, I know exactly how you feel. Neither cable nor DSL is available at my home. Drives me knuts. I asked one of the phone guys about it when he was in the neighborhood, and he said I'm 20miles from the nearest switch. Don't see things changing anytime soon. |
| jdixon Jul 27, 2006 5:58 AM EDT |
> Neither cable nor DSL is available at my home. While it's a poor alternative to either cable or DSL, Internet via satellite is a viable option if neither of those is available. It's more expensive than either cable and DSL, and many of the providers limit your bandwith to the point you can really only use it for browsing the web, but it does work. The best of the lot seems to be Wild Blue. http://www.wildblue.com/ |
| NoDough Jul 27, 2006 9:56 AM EDT |
>The best of the lot seems to be Wild Blue. Yeah, my electric coop offers WildBlue, but it ain't cheap! The problem with Internet over satellite is, even with high bandwidth, the latency eliminates opportunities to use VPNs, VOIP, and other near-real-time applications. I keep thinking about starting up a WiMax mesh to bring broadband to us hillbillies, but I have neither the time nor the money to undertake a start-up business right now. |
| jdixon Jul 27, 2006 10:01 AM EDT |
> The problem with Internet over satellite is, even with high bandwidth, the latency eliminates opportunities to use VPNs, VOIP, and other near-real-time applications. Yep. The latency completely shoots those type of applications. As noted, it's really only useful for browsing the web and (if your provider doesn't hit you with a bandwith limit) downloading. Fortunately, that's what most people want to do. |
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