Where Linux is easier than Microsoft Windows
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| cyber_rigger Aug 17, 2006 8:17 PM EDT |
I think it would be fun to collect things where it's easier with Linux.
This one had me "rolling on the floor" laughing
even though it's a serious article. Problem: a file or directory gets "locked" for some reason and you have to delete it. --------------- Linux: sudo or su root ; rm -R [filename or directory] --------------- MS Windows: Method 1 Reboot and try again. Method 2 Open a command line window (WindowsKey + R, enter: cmd). Move to the folder in question by means of CD commands like CD and CD foldername. Delete the file or folder by using the DEL command to delete files or the RMDIR (remove directory) command to remove directories (folders). Method 3 If this, on its own, is still not enough, then open Task Manager (Ctrl + Shift + Esc) and kill all explorer.exe tasks. Your desktop will go blank, except for the windows already open. Now try to delete the offending file by means of the DEL command, or folder by means of the RMDIR (remove directory) command, in the command line window, as described above. After that, in the command line window enter: explorer to restart your desktop. If you closed the command line window, you can still restart explorer by opening the Task Manager by holding down the Ctrl and Shift keys and briefly pressing the Esc key. In Task Manager select Applications, New Task and enter: explorer Method 4 If the previous method fails, particularly with multimedia files, log off, then log on again, but do not select the file in Windows Explorer. The safest way is not to open Windows Explorer in the first place. Then try the previous method again. Method 5 An even stronger measure would be to reboot, then try the previous methods again. This would work, for example, if a service has the file open. Method 6 (Thanks to John Barrington.) If you can't delete a problem file, try deleting the folder that contains the problem file. If this doesn't work, try this next item. If the problem file and its folder, we'll call (A), is within another folder, we'll call (B), try to delete the folder (B) along with any troublesome contents. Of course, you want to make sure, if you have any other important files or folders within either folder, that they are saved in another location first. Method 7 Begin like the previous method, but try also rmdir foldername /s (replace foldername with the name of the folder to be deleted). This command should delete a folder with all its subfolders. If the folder name contains one or more spaces, enclose it in quotes. Example: rmdir "folder name" /s Method 8 If the folder name contains strange characters, use a command line window again, but use the DIR /X command to find the short name (for example: PROGRA~1) and use the short name instead. The short name is DOS compatible and has no more than 8 characters for the main name, a period, then no more than 3 characters for the extension. Retry the previous methods that use a command line window, but use the short name now. Note: Sometimes an illegal file name can cause Windows Explorer to use nearly 100% of the CPU time. Method 9 Boot into safe mode and try to delete the file or folder there. Method 10 If you're trying to delete a program file, like one with the extension .exe, the cause could be that the program is currently running. Stop it, then delete the file. If the program starts automatically, check the article Autorun causes on how to remove the start command. Do it, reboot, then delete the file. Method 11 If this also doesn't work, there is a way to rename a file or folder during the boot process. For this you need to use the registry editor REGEDIT.EXE. See WxRegistryWarning.htm for a general warning. Create an entry in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESYSTEMCurrentControlSetSession Manager named PendingFileRenameOperations of type REG_MULTI_SZ. In pre-XP Windows versions you have to use REGEDT32.EXE to create this value type. The first line of each pair is the current file or folder path and name with ?? in front of it. The second line of each pair is the new file or folder path and name with !?? in front of it. Example for one pair which moves the file mfc42.dll from the temp folder to the system32 folder and overwrites any existing file at the destination: ??C:TEMPmfc42.dll !??C:WINDOWSsystem32mfc42.dll You can add as many pairs as you like. The move operation is performed directly after the next reboot. You can also give folder paths, so the folder will be renamed. But both paths have to be local. There is a Windows API call for this, named MoveFileEx, and somebody in Germany has even written a utility named MoveEx for it. You can download it from http://wwwthep.physik.uni-mainz.de/~frink/nt.html. Use it if you need this function often. A Posix utility from a Windows Resource Kit named mv.exe also does it, just in case you still have the resource kit around. Method 12 Boot into another operating system to delete the file from there. The other operating system can be, for example, another installation of Windows, BartPE, Knoppix, or any operating system that can read the file system used (NTFS or FAT32). Method 13 Remove the hard disk from the computer and connect it to another computer. Delete the files or folders there. Method 14 If you cannot delete a file or folder because it is in use, you can use one of the mostly free utilities, such as Unlocker http://winhlp.com/WxCannotDelete.htm |
| cyber_rigger Aug 17, 2006 8:37 PM EDT |
Another one that seems easier with Linux is burning an ISO to a CD. Linux (gnome): Right click the ISO file > click "Write to disk" Windows: Search the internet for some CD burning software that does ISOs. Follow instructions. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 17, 2006 10:13 PM EDT |
Installing the OS on a reasonably new computer. Linux: 1) Download & burn install CD 2) Boot from CD 3) Follow on-screen instructions 4) Reboot 5) Follow on-screen instructions Windows: 1) Hunt online for all drivers that you need and put them on floppy 2) Download firewall & AV software 3) Unplug ethernet cable 4) Reboot from install CD 5) Follow on-screen instructions 6) Mess around with floppy drivers 7) Follow on-screen instructions 8) Reboot 9) Follow on-screen instructions 10) Reboot 11) INstall extra drivers 12) Reboot 13) Goto 11 untill no drivers remain (1-5 times approx.) 14) Install AV 15) Reboot 16) Install Firewall 17) Reboot 18) In firewall, block access to everything but microsoft.com 19) Update Windows 20) Reboot 21) Goto 19 untill no more patches remain (approx. 3-6 times) 23) Reset the firewall to some sane settings 23) Install other software you need 24) Reboot 25) Goto 23 untill all software is installed (3-15 times) |
| cyber_rigger Aug 17, 2006 10:48 PM EDT |
You need product activation.
Sometimes a phone call. It would be funny to have a side by side video of Linux and MS Windows install from scratch. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 18, 2006 12:44 AM EDT |
I forgot: 18a) plug ethernet cable back in 23a) Update AV > It would be funny to have a side by side video of Linux and MS Windows install from scratch. Uh, no thanks. The Linux half would be done in 30 minutes. After that it would be 4-5 more hours of Windows mess. Boooring. |
| jimf Aug 18, 2006 7:46 AM EDT |
I can't believe the excuses that Windows users come up with to avoid even trying Linux. Hard to install, not the right apps, it's just too different, Mommy told me it will rot and fall off if I use it... All demonstrably untrue, but, they just won't drop that pox ridden, yet familiar, interface. I think we just have to wait till it gets so bad that it drives them screaming to Linux. |
| cyber_rigger Aug 18, 2006 12:48 PM EDT |
I have a theory that the Windows viruses etc. somehow infect the users.
It may be a subliminal suggestion or something. I don't know. ....or maybe they own cats. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii |
| perseis Aug 18, 2006 3:55 PM EDT |
I cannot help but feel just a bit overwhelmed here. I promised my husband I would give an honest effort to Linux and after "lurking about" as Ken's friend Salparadise says, I do not feel quite so inadequate. We have a 13 year old daughter who thinks her Daddy invented computers, so she tries to keep up with him on the Linux Learning Curve. SHE helped me realize that the dreaded white cursor in the black box is not a cryptic power tool necessary to operate Linux, it is an additional tool that gives it raw power. Sure the find files and folders command in Windows is standard, and even this beagle thing on my husbands computer is pretty cool. Unless I have to physically manipulate the file in some complex manner, I find it way easier to punch up F12 and: $slocate -i LinuxIsEasy.deb Which is ironic cause I like debian personally. My name is Debbie by the way. Thank you all for helping us out during this trying time. Ken is gone until tomorrow morning on job interviews. He told me to make my self at home here. I hope I haven't overdone it. ;-) |
| jimf Aug 18, 2006 4:28 PM EDT |
> dreaded white cursor in the black box Since I know you run KDE, it's easy to make it much less intimidating. Konsole will configure with all sorts of colors, and more... http://linux.jimfarnsworth.com/common/temp/Owlscreen.jpg |
| cyber_rigger Aug 25, 2006 6:54 PM EDT |
Google video:
http://video.google.com/ With Linux (Ubuntu) it just works. With MS Windows you have to install the google video player etc. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 27, 2006 8:02 AM EDT |
Cyber_rigger: Was that link supposed to go to a specific video? It just goes straight to the Google Video homepage. |
| cyber_rigger Aug 27, 2006 12:18 PM EDT |
Just google video in general. I was at a friend's house. I wanted to show him a video of a skydiver jumping with jet engines attached to his ankles His default XP install would not to play it. My experience, it's easier with Ubuntu or Debian (your mileage may vary). [url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5417019303200331106&q=skydive jet engine]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5417019303200331106...[/url] |
| number6x Aug 27, 2006 12:27 PM EDT |
>Uh, no thanks. The Linux half would be done in 30 >minutes. After that it would be 4-5 more hours of >Windows mess. Boooring. Yes but we could show the Linux geeks reading a novel, or taking somone out to a movie or dinner. You know having a real life, while the Windows Guys are still installing. I used to be amazed by how many Linux users I meet in day to day life. But now I realize that it is because we have time to do real things. The Windows guys are always way too busy just trying to get a working system. Of course the Mac users are taking surfing lessons or climbing Mt. Everest. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 27, 2006 2:55 PM EDT |
> His default XP install would not to play it. Nor will Linux. Most Linux distro's do not install flash by default, and except for a reboot, the installation procedure on Linux and Windows is about the same (download & execute -> keep clicking "next"). Here's some more stuff that's easier in Linux than it is on windows: * Finding and installing software. Windows does not have a central software repository * Keeping up-to-date. The windows updater only updates Windows & Office. Some other Windows programs have their own updater (AV software for example) but most of the software has to be kept up-to-date manually. On Linux, there's a big bright "update" button that takes care of your entire system. * Making backups. Windows relies too heavily on the registry and odd file locations. For linux, just back up /home. * Networking. After a dozen years of running Windows in various incarnations I still can not reliably set up a Windows network. It's different every time. Linux "just works". * Remote administration. You can't remote administer a group of Windows servers without some hefty and expensive software because everything is GUI based. SSH and a few clever bash scripts rule the Linux world. * Dealing with processes that have run amok. Process and job control is great on Linux, though not too newbie friendly. You have to know your CLI but then you can work wonders. On windows, if ctrl+alt+del -> end task doesn't work, you'll have to reboot. |
| jdixon Aug 27, 2006 4:27 PM EDT |
> Of course the Mac users are taking surfing lessons or climbing Mt. Everest. Yes, but by definition the Mac users have money. :( |
| jimf Aug 27, 2006 4:33 PM EDT |
> Yes, but by definition the Mac users have money. :( Or they're just lieing about surfing lessons and climbing Mt. Everest cause they spent all their money on a Mac... |
| techiem2 Aug 27, 2006 6:09 PM EDT |
hehe.
Whereas we freely admit we have no money.
Now if that paycheck would just come so I can buy another upgrade....
:) > * Dealing with processes that have run amok. Process and job control is great on Linux, though > not too newbie friendly. You have to know your CLI but then you can work wonders. On windows, > if ctrl+alt+del -> end task doesn't work, you'll have to reboot. yeah. Though you do occasionally run into the odd process on linux that actually won't die and you need to reboot to fix (grumble), but it's not nearly as often as in winders (and those rogue processes don't usually make the system unusable like they often do in winders). |
| cyber_rigger Aug 27, 2006 7:37 PM EDT |
That would depend on your repository list. My friend's Windows machine saw this google video as quicktime and tried to update the quicktime player, (which didn't work). |
| henke54 Aug 28, 2006 2:40 AM EDT |
Quoting:Most modern Linux distributions on the other hand like Redhat and SuSE have automatic update mechanisms that patch across the entire spectrum of software since Linux by its very nature is made up of a collection of applications from different sources.http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=172 |
| cyber_rigger Aug 30, 2006 3:27 PM EDT |
Finding free applications: Linux: Open synaptic and enter search. Click what you want. MS Windows: Search the web. Wade though demo/trial versions, shareware versions, adware versions etc. |
| Bob_Robertson Aug 30, 2006 6:40 PM EDT |
My wife's legal copy of Win2K has four boot floppies that must be swapped in and out prior to the machine accessing the CD. The CD will not boot. Period. In order to install Win2K into a FAT partition, I have to boot Linux (KNOPPIX), partition the disk, use mkdosfs -F 32, and THEN the Win2K install will recognize that, maybe, I might want something other than NTFS on the disk. FAT32 is much, much easier to repair than NTFS when the poop hits the case fan. BTW, I just got her a bigger disk. I reinstalled Win2K, along with all the Microsoft service packs and patches (and the 5 or 6 reboots that are required), and sure enough as soon as I caught her using Internet Explorer, I ran housecall.trendmicro.com for a virus scan and she already had adware installed on the machine. She wasn't using it more than 20 minutes before I caught her. ARGH! If you compare installing Windows and _Everying_Else_You_Want_, side by side with installing Linux and using something like Debian's "tasksel" or "aptitude" to select "Install Desktop System" and "GO!", the Linux install will take less time, less interaction, less effort, and give a better desktop system. Commercial games are the only difference, and the only reason left to buy Windows. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 30, 2006 10:25 PM EDT |
> Commercial games are the only difference, and the only reason left to buy Windows. Unless you're heavy in strategy games you could buy a console. The PS2 is a great machine and I predict that the Wii is going to be very, very big. |
| dinotrac Aug 31, 2006 8:53 AM EDT |
>Commercial games are the only difference, and the only reason left to buy Windows. A little too restrictive there. Any application that you must have and that will not run on Linux is a reason to buy Windows. |
| jdixon Aug 31, 2006 8:59 AM EDT |
> Any application that you must have and that will not run on Linux is a reason to buy Windows. Fortunately, for the home user, that's not all that common. For business use, it's far more common. Now, apps that you really want and that will not run on Linux, that's far more common. |
| nalf38 Aug 31, 2006 1:02 PM EDT |
>Fortunately, for the home user, that's not all that common. You'd be surprised what a home user considers a 'must have'. The threshold for 'must have' is at times actually much lower for a home user than a business user. If their $5 copy of Foo-bar's Recipe Book 2003 won't work on Linux, that could be a make or break proposition for them. |
| jdixon Aug 31, 2006 1:18 PM EDT |
> You'd be surprised what a home user considers a 'must have'. By definition, if it's "considered" a must have, it isn't. People know what the must have's are. There's no consideration involved. Things like Foo-bar's Recipe Book 2003 are in the really want category. You can live without them if you have too. Since most people could live without a home computer if they had to, very few apps can possibly fall into the must have category. |
| jimf Aug 31, 2006 2:03 PM EDT |
> Since most people could live without a home computer Sacrilege!!! Now a computer in the workplace is usually a real time waster... |
| cyber_rigger Aug 31, 2006 2:24 PM EDT |
IMO complaining about "Foo-bar's Recipe Book 2003" won't run on Linux
is _usually_ just procrastination. It's getting harder to _not_ find something for Linux. http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=rec... |
| jimf Aug 31, 2006 2:35 PM EDT |
> It's getting harder to _not_ find something for Linux. True. In about the last 3 years, the number and quality of equivalent Linux solutions has really caught up. You really got to have a niche speciality application before you have a problem. I can think of a few, but very few. |
| cyber_rigger Aug 31, 2006 3:23 PM EDT |
Here's a good resource listing basic Linux, MS Windows analogs. http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html |
| nalf38 Sep 01, 2006 9:07 AM EDT |
jdixon / jimf / cyber_rigger --- I think you guys are preaching to the choir. I'm not arguing with you, I just happen to think that your arguments, while completely sound, would fall on deaf ears to the average user. Yes, there are analogs, but the average user doesn't WANT an analog. They want Foo-Bar. My mother bought a new computer that came with Nero instead of Roxio. Their interfaces were almost identical, but she refused to use Nero and went out and bought a $100 copy of Roxio. It's never a 'must have'. Of course Nero works as well as Roxio. And yet, what's 'really want' to us is 'must have' to someone else. An analog is nice, but it implies a learning curve to the average user. What's a nearly completely negligible learning curve to us could be nearly insurmountable to someone else. |
| jdixon Sep 01, 2006 9:24 AM EDT |
Nalf38: Well, we were taking off from Dino's line: > Any application that you must have and that will not run on Linux is a reason to buy Windows. And we were using the literal meaning of must have. I'd say that Dino is in fact understating the case, and you're more correct with your line: > If their $5 copy of Foo-bar's Recipe Book 2003 won't work on Linux, that could be a make or break proposition for them. at least as far a switching to Linux goes. But I do think it's important to recognize that these are actually apps that people "really want", not ones that they "must have". It's possible for most home users to swich to Linux right now, if they want to. For most people, unfortunately, it's better the devil you know than the one you don't. |
| techiem2 Sep 06, 2006 11:10 AM EDT |
> unfortunately, it's better the devil you know than the one you don't. Don't you mean "it's better the devil you know than the daemon you don't"? :) Interesting points all around. |
| jdixon Sep 06, 2006 11:14 AM EDT |
> Don't you mean "it's better the devil you know than the daemon you don't"?
:) Only if we're considering the BSD's in the conversation. |
| herzeleid Sep 06, 2006 1:50 PM EDT |
> > Don't you mean "it's better the devil you know than the daemon you don't"?
:) > Only if we're considering the BSD's in the conversation. BSDs don't have a monopoly on daemons, mascot notwithstanding... All unices are full of daemons, you know... |
| jdixon Sep 06, 2006 2:39 PM EDT |
> All unices are full of daemons, you know... Yes, but the user considering converting doesn't. They may know the BSD mascot though. |
| Bob_Robertson Sep 07, 2006 11:28 AM EDT |
Just FYI, I'm having to reinstall Win2K again today. My daughters Muppetts Inside game locked up the machine totally, and it would no longer boot after resetting. This time no service packs! Argh! But the saying is true: Anyone who thinks Windows is easier to install than Linux has never installed Windows. |
| jimf Sep 07, 2006 11:39 AM EDT |
> This time no service packs! Argh! The first couple actually do good, or at least no harm. Just don't put in the last big one (#4 I think) that's the real bad one. |
| Bob_Robertson Sep 07, 2006 11:56 AM EDT |
Yeah, but once it starts it wants to do it again, and again... I wouldn't mind stopping at SP2.... |
| jimf Sep 07, 2006 12:30 PM EDT |
I always used to use an older copy of zone alarm to keep any 'phone home to mother' behavior in check. Of course now my copy of w2k is only used for support reference, so, it's not allowed on the internet at all ;-). If you need it, I can get that older version of zone alarm to you. Just ask. |
| cyber_rigger Sep 07, 2006 12:37 PM EDT |
Live CD. Another category where I'm _guessing_ that Linux is easier than MS Windows is obtaining and using a live CD. With Linux you download a free iso, burn it and boot it. http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php You could also get Ubuntu to mail you one free of charge. https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ The Ubuntu install CD I used (from a download) has a run-live-from-the-CD feature. Do any of you have experience with a MS Windows Live CD? |
| jimf Sep 07, 2006 12:48 PM EDT |
> Do any of you have experience with a MS Windows Live CD? No such animal to my knowlwdge. |
| Bob_Robertson Sep 07, 2006 12:51 PM EDT |
I've read that live Windows CDs do exist, or at least can be made, but I have never seen one. I've been able to stop the service packs at v3, rather than 4, we'll see what difference that makes. Sheesh! What a nightmare. Debian does indeed take longer to install, but most of that time is spent downloading a gig of applications and half a dozen different window managers (because I like to play). By the time I'm done with installing and updating Windows, I have _nothing_ other than Media Player 9 and I.E. |
| techiem2 Sep 07, 2006 12:53 PM EDT |
Windows LiveCD http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ Never tried building it myself though, and not sure how fancy it gets. |
| jimf Sep 07, 2006 1:03 PM EDT |
> Windows, I have _nothing_ other than Media Player 9 and I.E. So, by the time you get it 'dressed', how long does it take? At least as long, and for me, it's a lot longer. |
| jdixon Sep 07, 2006 1:22 PM EDT |
> Windows LiveCD Bart's PE is useful, but if you want the whole kit and kaboodle, you'll want the upgraded Universal Boot CD for Windows: http://www.ubcd4win.com/ For Windows, it's a pretty useful tool. |
| cyber_rigger Sep 07, 2006 1:57 PM EDT |
"Bart's PE" Linux looks easier than this: http://www.ubcd4win.com/howto.htm With Linux: Download the ISO to a file Right click file, pick write to disk Boot the CD. |
| cyber_rigger Sep 07, 2006 6:17 PM EDT |
Concurrent multi-user-desktop. If I am in the middle of a download and someone else wants to use my computer using their account on it. Linux: Click a gdmflexiserver button. A new login prompt starts. The other user can login leaving my session STILL running. When they leave the screen returns to my session. Windows: Windows XP has "fast user switching" but I don't think you can have two or more sessions running _concurrently_. The server versions of Windows might be able to do this but I don't want to pay that much to find out. |
| jdixon Sep 07, 2006 8:05 PM EDT |
> Windows XP has "fast user switching" but I don't think you can have two or more sessions running _concurrently_. The processes you're running continue while the other user has control, yes. But (AFIAK) there's no equivilant to having two full sessions for different users open at the same time and switching between them with the alt-ctl-F7/F8 keys. |
| cyber_rigger Sep 07, 2006 8:38 PM EDT |
Another thing that is easier with Linux
is working on a machine _while_ someone is still using it. You can do a remote X session or ssh and not bother someone else's active desktop session. |
| cyber_rigger Sep 08, 2006 8:52 PM EDT |
According to this MS Windows boots more slowly with age.
http://www.intelliadmin.com/blog/2006/09/why-windows-takes-s... To fix this MS Windows: The trouble is that it will only help you for a while - until the prefetch gets clogged up again. We need to edit a registry key to tweak it. Open regedit and browse to this key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESYSTEMCurrentControlSetControlSession ManagerMemory ManagementPrefetchParameters Under this key you should see a value named: EnablePrefetcher It has 4 possible values: 0 - Disabled : The prefetch system is turned off. 1 - Application : The prefetch only caches applications. 2 - Boot : The prefetch only caches boot system files. 3 - All : The prefetch caches boot, and application files. We don't want to disable it entirely. This would actually make boot times *longer*. This is because this feature is also used to speed up the loading of boot files. That is why we are going to pick the number 2 option. It allows us to keep the advantage of caching system files, without continually clogging the system up with applications. Set the value to 2 and reboot...... Linux: Do nothing |
| cyber_rigger Sep 28, 2006 10:16 AM EDT |
http://slees.net/2006/09/25/ip-169254xx/ |
| cyber_rigger Apr 23, 2007 8:50 PM EDT |
"Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows." http://dmartin.org/weblog/things-i-can-do-in-linux-that-i-ca... |
| tracyanne Apr 23, 2007 11:56 PM EDT |
Things you can't do on Windows: CTRL + ALT + LEFT ARROW ( or CTRL + ALT + RIGHTARROW ) through multiple desktops. Scroll through multiple desktops using the scroll button on your mouse. Move application windows to a different desktop. Configure an application window to open with no decorations, and or no border. Configure the application window to open at a specific size everytime. Copy a group of files from the filesystem and paste them into a text editor and have only the meta data (filename and path) pasted into the text editor - try that with windows and it will either try to paste binary data into the text editor or display a can't do message. make application windows sit above all other windows, or below all other windows. |
| dcparris Apr 24, 2007 1:23 AM EDT |
Experience the same level of integration with Konqueror and Nautilus that Windows users do with Explorer, but with none of the security risks associated with the latter's tight integration with the core OS. And access remote systems via built-in FTP/SSH/WebDAV and other utilities. Come to think of it, what besides file browsing and virus catching can you do with Windows explorer? |
| dinotrac Apr 24, 2007 2:25 AM EDT |
>Well, we were taking off from Dino's line: >> Any application that you must have and that will not run on Linux is a reason to buy Windows. You make me proud, grasshopper. It's one of the reasons that desktops are harder than servers. Desktops are the domain of individuals, and prey to individual preferences. Given that we live in a market society and not a Soviet state, the difference between "must have" and "really want" is too small to matter. |
| jimf Apr 24, 2007 9:14 AM EDT |
> Experience the same level of integration with Konqueror and Nautilus that Windows users do with Explorer Or not... Frankly, the integration of hal and its overwrite of fstab settings is considered by more experienced Linux users as the devils workshop. Pretty much an attempt to duplicate the MS 'no-think' way of doing things. The up side of all this? I get to choose whether or not to use those components, or, other ones. Now that's something that Windows will never allow. |
| tracyanne Apr 24, 2007 1:11 PM EDT |
The "No Think" way of doing things is what most people want. They don't always get it on Windows. In fact I think it tends to work better on Linux, and even better on the Mac. The upside is that people have the choice, with Linux, they can if and when they choose pull the whole thing apart, like a Leggo House, and put it back together any way they like. Unfortunately most people perceive that Linux is hard and geeky and very technical and way over their "I don't know anything about computers" heads, and there are more salesmen (mostly it's men) selling windows than Macs, and there are more salesmen selling Macs than Linux. Another thing I can do on Linux that you can't do on Windows. I can place a mouse pointer over a object that has scroll bars - a Window, a list box for example and using the mouse scroller, scroll through the objects contents. On windows I must first select the object by clicking the left Mouse button, sometimes that causes other single click actions to occur, so it's not reliable. On Linux the object where there are left/right, up/down scroll bars, it will scroll up/Down, left/right depending on what makes most sense. On Windows it will scroll up/down only. |
| jimf Apr 24, 2007 1:54 PM EDT |
> The "No Think" way of doing things is what most people want. Actually, that's the way most business' want. In the business world, standardization to the point of total inanity is considered and asset, elsewhere, not so much. Fortunately, Linux will support both modes. |
| hkwint Apr 25, 2007 8:49 AM EDT |
OK, here's a sad message to anyone who thinks there's no program that's not available on Linux: There _is_ one for me (probably two). In the first place, and this one is probably the most simple one to 'circumvent', is AutoCAD. At this moment, there's no free software which equals AutoCAD 2006 (I read this at cad4linux.nl). Linux CAD program's can only do what AutoCAD did about 6 years ago (which, for my day-to-day work, is not enough). AutoCAD is the only reason I had to install Windows again on one of my two PC's. Remember, my two current PC's never ran Windows before, except in VMWare or Win4Lin in Linux. It was very nasty (a French version, so you know where I got it from, ahem) to install it, since I believed Windows XP would fit on 3GB when partitioning my HD's with EVMS including a software RAID arry and LVM2 (almost impossible to shrink to make more room for Win), but Microsoft thought differently. OK, I finally made it work, but don't ask me how much I had to cut out of XP, bypassing Windows File Protection with brute force (Gentoo LiveCD containing rm -rf), and removing tons of unneeded directories (dllcache, servicepackfiles, sounds and themes etc.). Finally, after defragmenting, and after I managed to change the swap to the D: drive (that would be hdb1), it worked within 3GB. I'm really ashamed to use Microsoft software, but I need AutoCAD for my school (2d drafting). In the second place, there's 3D parametric solid modelling (which we need for machine-prototyping), such as AutoDesk Inventor. These programs used to run on Unix only, but after those companies (SolidWorks / ProEngineer included) started supporting Windows, AutoDesk programs are really a Linux-user's nightmare. For example, AutoCAD 2006 requires XP SP1, and AutoDesk Inventor makes it far worse by even requiring SP2 + IE6, and iComponents requires MS Office. As far as I know, there's no replacement for Linux, which is really s sad. Nowadays, SolidWorks and AutoCAD don't support anything else than Microsoft software. I thought about how to program an 'Inventor' replacement, but due to the knowledge someone should have about engineering, and the sheer complexity of Inventor (there is a lot of - almost AI - in Inventor!), thought it would be almost impossible to do (programming AutoCAD replacements is peanuts in comparison). All AutoDesk file formats are proprietary too, which makes things far worse. So, I wish there was no program for which a Linux replacement wasn't available, but I think that isn't true. I still should write AutoDesk a letter about this. OpenOffice and OpenXML are nice examples of the direction in which AutoDesk could / should go. If only a CAD-format was added to OpenDocument.... Quoting:You'd be surprised what a home user considers a 'must have'. The threshold for 'must have' is at times actually much lower for a home user than a business user. If their $5 copy of Foo-bar's Recipe Book 2003 won't work on Linux, that could be a make or break proposition for them. My friend asked me if Notepad++ was available on Linux, suggesting Linux didn't have such a nifty PHP programming tool. Imagine the terror I felt! Notepad++ was almost a reason to use Linux less frequently. However, after showing KDevelop, the problem was over. The guy never heard of Emacs or VI by the way (my friend being only 20 years old)... |
| jimf Apr 25, 2007 10:45 AM EDT |
> I still should write AutoDesk a letter Don't bother, they aren't at all interested. Call the exterminator instead. AutoCad is arguably an even worse abomination than MS. Again, the marketing and virtual monopoly of Engineering is the only thing that keeps them profitable. Isn't it amazing how these proprietary dung piles, vermin really, crawl into key elements of society. Note that they always infest Education, Government, Art, and Engineering first. |
| DarrenR114 Apr 25, 2007 11:38 AM EDT |
@jimf How's Munich getting around using AutoCad?? |
| jimf Apr 25, 2007 11:41 AM EDT |
> How's Munich getting around using AutoCad?? Are they? |
| theboomboomcars Apr 25, 2007 12:06 PM EDT |
So why does AutoDesk offer some of their products on linux, but not others? It seems batty to me. |
| jdixon Apr 25, 2007 12:30 PM EDT |
> I still should write AutoDesk a letter about this. You'd probably have better luck writing a letter to Codeweavers. I'm somewhat surprised AutoCad isn't one of the programs they're trying to support. > How's Munich getting around using AutoCad?? Probaby by using Citrix, though it's always possible they're keeping Windows for those type of functions. |
| jimf Apr 25, 2007 1:01 PM EDT |
> better luck writing a letter to Codeweavers They've had absolutely 'no' luck running this abomination. > possible they're keeping Windows for those type of functions. It's quite possible that acad can keep windows alive all by itself. |
| jdixon Apr 25, 2007 1:31 PM EDT |
> They've had absolutely 'no' luck running this abomination. I take it you've talked to them about it then? If they can't get it to work, then I'm afraid it's pretty much hopeless. :( |
| jimf Apr 25, 2007 1:55 PM EDT |
> I'm afraid it's pretty much hopeless. :( Well yeah, but only because acad/autodesk should be exposed as the monopoly they are and destroyed. Truth is that acad has always been a draftsman's tool and has never been much good for Engineering design anyway. Linux should then develop it's own solution. I'm sure the result would be far superior. Cad for Linux, although proprietary, is available. Some of it is very good, but, between the acad monopoly, and Corporate insistence on MS 'product line', I don't see that much is going to happen. |
| DarrenR114 Apr 25, 2007 4:40 PM EDT |
For those interested in the Linux CAD offerings:
http://www.tech-edv.co.at/lunix/CADlinks.html QCad is the one that I've heard of before ... |
| jimf Apr 25, 2007 4:59 PM EDT |
> QCad is the one that I've heard of While QCad isn't GPL, it's the only one that's free to use. ..... Let me amend that, from Darren's list they've been some busy programmers at work. Looks like I need to do some testing. |
| cyber_rigger Apr 25, 2007 11:28 PM EDT |
>Cad for Linux, although proprietary, is available. I looked at a demo of VariCAD a few years ago. http://www.varicad.com/ It looked impressive. It had some Autocad compatibility back then, probably more now. I remember the interface being more intuitive than Autocad. VariCAD is a pay-licensed product. |
| hkwint Apr 26, 2007 3:39 AM EDT |
Well, I guess I should look at VariCAD if that's the case. Also, I should ask the CodeWeaver's team their opinion about it. I tried running AutoCAD in VMWare (under Gentoo), but it didn't work on one of my two PC's, and on the other it was really, really (to) slow. I guess I need VMWare-server tools, but I don't know how to get that package at the moment. Back on topic, one of the things that's easier in Linux than in Windows, is debugging of 'OS problems'. Especially, booting in non-GUI mode is a "can't live without" for me. Also, the ability to run an app from a commandline and receive debug information from that application in that commandline (or syslog files), is priceless for me. Compare that to an AutoCAD failure I experienced yesterday: First 'DBC error' (or something like DBC), then "Unhandled exception at 00045x3" or so. It left me wondering what was the actual error. When we ask the system administrator to fix it, his usual method is to re-image the PC, thereby (quick)formatting the C: partition, because it's almost impossible to find the _real_ error. Darren: Thanks for the Linux/CAD link, it looks usable to me. When I have the time, I should try some of those programs. |
| jdixon Apr 26, 2007 6:17 AM EDT |
> ...but I don't know how to get that package at the moment. The basic VMware Server product is a free download from their site. You need to register with them to get an installation key. |
| hkwint Apr 26, 2007 9:29 AM EDT |
OK, thanks |
| cyber_rigger Jun 09, 2007 12:20 PM EDT |
Here's an article about rebuilding a machine, Linux vs Windows. http://ajax.sys-con.com/read/382946.htm Quoting:_ I needed to rebuild my T60 with a fresh OS. Which was easier? MS Windows with a factory install disk, separate disks for Office and for Virus protection and then a lot of hunt-and-peck downloading for various apps like Thunderbird, Firefox, SSH, and Calendar or....Ubuntu with one CD and an OS that includes an integrated, extensible, and slick software package manager where all the software is approved and tailored to the installation? . . . |
| Aladdin_Sane Jun 09, 2007 12:34 PM EDT |
>>Here's an article about rebuilding a machine, Linux vs Windows. "After Ubuntu, Windows Looks Increasingly Bad, Increasingly Archaic, Increasingly Unfriendly" A good article I thought, and I believe the author (a Linux admin) had railed against Linux on the desktop in previous months/years. Oddly, the article was posted some days ago, but apparently revised, as the link you gave has today's date on the story. |
| tracyanne Jun 09, 2007 2:51 PM EDT |
Quoting:ypassing Windows File Protection with brute force (Gentoo LiveCD containing rm -rf), and removing tons of unneeded directories (dllcache, servicepackfiles, sounds and themes etc.). I don't actually have any trouble removing all that stuff. The first thing I do is remove the contents of dllcache, an easy task, after that I can remove every one of the Windows programs that I specifically told the Windows installer not to install, but which seem to get installed anyway - Windows Media player, Outlook express, Movie Maker (which actually isn't even an option not to install it), Microsoft Messenger, MSN, MSN Gaming Zone (what these are doing in a so called Professional system is beyond me), Net Meeting. I After I've applied the security updates I remove the update cache directories, that usually keeps MS Windows down to a "trim" 2 Gig (just over actually). I actually managed to set up a new virtual machine last night that doesn't have any known MS spyware (WGA) installed. I managed to do this by allowing the updates to proceed, and aborting the process when it attempted to install the WGA "update". I keep getting a message that updates are available, but the only "update" there is WGA. I can now go ahead and install SQL Server 2005 and Visual Studio 2005, which I need for work. |
| jdixon Jun 09, 2007 3:06 PM EDT |
> I keep getting a message that updates are available, but the only "update" there is WGA. Doesn't Windows Update have an option to hide a given update and not show it to you again? I seem to remember such from the last time I tried to use it. |
| Bob_Robertson Jun 09, 2007 8:38 PM EDT |
In my recent WinXP "experience", once it starts with WGA, nothing else will work until WGA is installed. |
| Aladdin_Sane Jun 09, 2007 8:44 PM EDT |
I was under the impression that WGA could not be hidden because it is flagged "critical." I could be wrong... |
| tracyanne Jun 09, 2007 10:28 PM EDT |
I don't trust Microsoft's hide this patch functionality. It may get installed anyway. Basically the way WGA works is you can't do updates via the Microsoft updates website, but the auto updates works, and will prompt you to install WGA, if you have chosen "download and tell me when files ready" or "tell me that files are ready before download". If you get past the very first update, as I have, you can continue to refuse to install WGA. My copy of XP Pro is legal (it was purchased by my employer - I won't spend money on Microsoft software) and I think Microsoft have a bloody cheek, so on principle I refuse to install the WGA "update". |
| NoDough Jun 11, 2007 5:48 PM EDT |
Windows Update used to block any patches beyond WGA, if you refused WGA. However, after a little bad press, they changed direction. Now you can refuse to install WGA (and check the "don't ask me again" box) and still install bug and security patches. OTOH, if you don't install WGA, there is a ton of content on Microsoft.com that they will not allow you to install (i.e. additional Office templates.) |
| tracyanne Jun 11, 2007 6:28 PM EDT |
Quoting:OTOH, if you don't install WGA, there is a ton of content on Microsoft.com that they will not allow you to install (i.e. additional Office templates.) I don't think that's a big worry for me. I don't even have MS Office installed on the virtual machine. All it runs is Visual Studio 2005 and MSSQL server 2005. For that I'm quite happy to forego such things. |
| tracyanne Jun 12, 2007 12:57 PM EDT |
I just discovered that if you place you mouse pointer over the title bar of a window and scroll the scroll button, you can scroll through the open, non minimised, widows on your desktop. Can't do that on MS Windows. |
| Sander_Marechal Jun 12, 2007 9:50 PM EDT |
One more: You can't install Windows (Vista) on a small hard drive for two reasons: - Vista eats anywhere between 10 and 20 Gb for just the OS. Ultimate edition even pushes over 20 Gb. - All user data (Documents and Settings) needs to be on the same partition/disk as the OS itself. Putting it on a different partition is extremely buggy with Vista. |
| mikl_gigi May 30, 2008 4:30 AM EDT |
Although Windows is designed as easy to use as possible. There are gigantic amount of things which is hard (or even impossible) to do in Windows. Here is a list: 1. Moving the whole system into a new environment. For example, you have just bought a new computer and moved the hard disk containing the system into the new machine. If it is Windows, you probably have got a BSOD and wasted lots of time to fix it. If it is Linux, everything has worked fine and no action is needed. 2. Backing up the settings and restoring it later. For user settings, just back up the ~ directory (and user profile in Windows) and everything is fine. For machine settings, it is much harder in Windows. Some of them are in registry, some are in %windir% folder, some are in %programfiles% folder, etc. In Linux, just back up the /etc folder. 3. Re-organising your things without breaking compatibility. You may move something away and create a soft link in the original location (to preserve compatibility). In Linux, you can do this through the GUI but in Windows, although the soft link feature is present in Windows 2000 NTFS, there are no ways to do it through the GUI or the CLI. You must download a program from the web or write one yourself. 4. Using the machine from far away by lots of people. In Windows, only server versions can do that concurrently and for each user, Windows must load the whole registry into memory (in default settings, it loads a complete GUI shell!) but in Linux, it only loads something like /bin/bash , nothing else except ordered by the user. 5. Installing applications. In Linux, you just need to open the package manager and get what you want. In Windows, you need to open a web browser, enter an address of a search engine, go to the official site, download the package, (unzip it,) finally install the package (and reboot the machine). |
| NoDough May 30, 2008 5:02 AM EDT |
Good points. Nearly a year late, but good. |
| hkwint Jun 07, 2008 3:32 PM EDT |
Hmm, after a year we should mention Wubi: Installing a new OS while using an incompatible one. |
| AGabstonHowell Jul 28, 2008 9:55 AM EDT |
Interesting thread of thought; which I just ran across. > - All user data (Documents and Settings) needs to be on the same partition/disk as the OS itself. > Putting it on a different partition is extremely buggy with Vista. I'd wager that you'd be further (and royally) pooched if you tried to centralize user data on a server, to preserve all those goodies that tend to evaporate when windows corrupts its own filesystem. A centralized (and served) home directory is trivially accomplished on even the most pedestrian Linux distros--for a decade or so, I might add--and well within the abilities of the home user to accomplish. ######## Elsewhere, here, I noticed mention of installation times for windows -vs- Linux; mainly because I waxed POed about that very issue over a year ago (Never did a vista install, and don't plan to ever do one, but *did* do a retail-boxed-xp install for my wife.) because of the time and money that the microsoft installation wasted on a single installation. 4 days and a hundred or so bucks, buying hardware that was supported with windows drivers, versus 30 minutes and all hardware supported for the Linux installation on the same machine. Frankly, I find it nothing short of ludicrous that people actually use windows. |
| Bob_Robertson Jul 28, 2008 11:09 AM EDT |
I went to the dentist's office for a cleaning this morning. Their computer systems had been down, again. The receptionist was pulling her hair out about it, the hygenists were bickering about how they were having trouble getting data in. Windows. |
| cyber_rigger Sep 17, 2008 3:42 PM EDT |
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=415 |
| tracyanne Sep 17, 2008 6:32 PM EDT |
Quoting:Hmm, after a year we should mention Wubi: Installing a new OS while using an incompatible one Wubi is a great concept (I wish Mandriva would implement such a solution), I installed it on the Virtual Machine (VirtualBox) copy of Windows XP I use ocassionally for work. It was a doddle to install Ubuntu with it. In fact the only problem I had was that Ubuntu wouldn't recognise the Virtual Video card, and refused to display in anything but 800 by 600. |
| hkwint Sep 18, 2008 2:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:I wish Mandriva would implement such a solution Hmm, would that be much work for an individual contributor (not paid by Mandriva) to do so? I was thinking about fiddling with Wubi to make it install other distro's (PC-Linux OS maybe); and I found out Wubi was designed with more than just Ubuntu in mind. |
| tracyanne Sep 18, 2008 5:30 PM EDT |
Yes I've seen the write up at the Wubi page, it is designed to be relatively easily configured for other Distros. I wouldn't know where to start though. |
| sallyreena Sep 24, 2008 12:38 AM EDT |
Microsoft has dismissed claims that Linux is more cost-effective for businesses, arguing that Windows is cheaper over its total lifecycle. When asked by Gartner about Microsoft's intensifying battle against the open source operating system, European president Jean-Phillipe Courtois claimed that Linux is in fact more expensive to run than Windows. ------------------------ Sally |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 24, 2008 2:04 AM EDT |
sallyreena: Do you have a link for that? |
| gus3 Sep 24, 2008 2:43 AM EDT |
Methinks sallyreena is merely a M$ troll/droid who puts those comments into Linux discussion, for the purposes of Google manipulation. |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 24, 2008 3:05 AM EDT |
Could be. She runs a SEO site promoting Social Media Marketing as one of her products. |
| hkwint Sep 24, 2008 5:40 PM EDT |
Bill Gates invests in Silverlake: [url=http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/silver-lake-rides-technology-debt/story.aspx?guid={E92367F5-1A23-4012-A37D-85B63843705F}]http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/silver-lake-rides-tech...[/url] Silverlake invests in Gartner: http://silverlake.com/content.php?page=investments-portfolio... Therefore Bill Gates owns part of Gartner. Furthermore, Ohio hearings show how Microsoft pays 'the ones influencing public opinion', and the more independent they are, the more they cost. You can find it all here: http://iowa.gotthefacts.org/ How Microsoft buys op-eds can be found here: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/61746/index.html So never trust Gartner when it comes to Microsoft. Gartner is a Microsoft shill. Gartner will never admit that Linux is more cost-effective for business and that Windows is - and that's a fact you should get - far more expensive to run than Windows. Just because Bill Gates is shareholder of Gartner. This means Jean-Phillipe Courtois claims are nonsense and not to be trusted by _any_ shareholder of _any_ company, because he makes his claims under pressure of his shareholders. (Eath that Google!) |
| hkwint Sep 24, 2008 6:12 PM EDT |
But anyway, we were discussing where Linux is easier than Windows; and I have an everyday example I encountered yesterday. I wanted to make some shortcut keys for Windows for symbols; like the degree or plus-minus symbol (I need them almost everyday). Something like xmodmap or xkeycaps for Windows. "Can't be that hard to change a keymap for Windows" I remember thinking. Turns out it is. There exists a solution, but I have to install parts of .NET for it. Apart from a lot of wasted time that would cost and security risks posed, I'm not authorized to install it. I wasted many hours of my (and my companies) productivity trying to find a solution for Windows. Can't find it. Maybe I'm dumb, but more probably Windows is. For Linux, it's easy, I just use xkeycaps and the matter is done within a minute or two. Also, I had a lot of struggles with MS Word's tables again. One time I'm able to paste a column I copied from Excel as cells, the other time I'm not able of doing so because I just "don't have" that option. I can't find why it sometimes works and sometimes not. More wasted time because of Microsoft-software. Same for Microsoft Access: I tried to export a table to a textfile, just to be able to work with it using a decent scripting language like python. One time I receive a wizzard how I'd like my text-table to be layed-out; like field seperator etc.; the other time I don't. There is also a python-module to connect to MS Access, but guess what, I need to install another ODBC module for MS Access first I found out. Needless to say I'm not authorized to do so. More time down the drain. What I wanted is to import Access-data to a MS Word document. I could've done that on a Linux-computer using a plain-text table instead of MS Access, ODF instead of .doc and python as a scripting language in probably two hours or so. However, the binary formats of MS Office don't allow me to do that kind of stuff. Probably I have to use VB to do something like that. I don't speak VB. Learning it will cost me hours, while I'm perfectly capable of doing such sort of jobs with Python and ODF. Apart from VB support possibly being dropped whenever Microsoft feels like doing so. So now I'm doing that job manually instead. Looking in Access, remembering the data, and typing it in manually in the Word documents. Costs us probably multiple hours a week; and if we want to update the whole Word-document it will take us hundreds of hours. While a phyton-script could be made in an hour or four, and after that it could be run every day to update the ODF file. Conclusion: MS software costs our company a lot compared to free software. Free Software and especially Open Formats would have had a much lower TCO. Than I haven't mentioned how much our PTC CAD program crashes on Windows XP (which I consider Mircosofts best OS ever) without _any_ useful error message, but I'm not sure which of the two is to blame. Also, I wanted to do some scripting a few days ago. I just wanted to type in some number and according to that number open a particular directory in Windows' File explorer. Preferably copy them to a dump-dir too. I would have finished such a script in bash within a minute. However, looking how to do this in DOS-batch scripting I couldn't find much useful, only really complex ugly looking examples which I couldn't understand. Now I'm not a programmer at all, but I did a lot of programming in BASIC on a TI83 (which is far more difficult than it sounds given the limitations of the particular cut-down version of BASIC available and the memory limit of 20k or so), some Bash, some python, the occasional C/C++ 'newbie' program and I did a short online LISP-course apart from studying Brainfuck and seeing some perl/lua from time to time, so if a program language looks difficult to me it probably is not my fault. So, who are you going to believe. Some Gartner-bobo which probably never even worked with Linux and doesn't have a real job to do except parroting what others say, or somebody 'fighting' with Windows and other Microsotft (and PTC) software everyday? |
| techiem2 Sep 24, 2008 6:32 PM EDT |
We are in the process of replacing the front office employee machines with HP Touch comps.
With Vista...
With XP, you make an image (@2.5-3GB on average), load up the comps, use either ghostwalk or newsid to change their names/SIDs, join to the domain, done.
With Vista we have an image size of 25GB (yes, that's correct), and newsid doesn't work....
Apparently with Vista you have to use sysprep for any sort of mass deployment.
Now here's a kicker: apparently our license contract lets us use any version of Windows as long as the comp comes with an OEM install and we "upgrade" it (I think that's what my boss said).
But sysprep won't work on the OEM install.......we'd have to do a proper fresh install using our site license media to use sysprep....so.......does that technically invalidate the contract?
Yeah....Windows is easy..and keeps getting easier....hah. |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 24, 2008 6:57 PM EDT |
Quoting:so.......does that technically invalidate the contract? Call the BSA, cash in $50.000 and go look for a job where you can work with 100% Linux :-) |
| techiem2 Sep 24, 2008 7:09 PM EDT |
lol. Actually most of my work is Linux. Most of my windows work is when we redo the labs on breaks. |
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