xfce
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| bigg Dec 18, 2006 12:44 PM EDT |
> New users will have to figure out how to get KDE (assuming they even know that is), never mind Enlightenment or XFce. I realize it's simple, but offering users a choice during the installation is a good thing. It's easy to add it after the fact, once you have already installed gnome and the full list of bloated applications (granted, still better than many distributions). What I would like is to install xfce only, and just the packages I need. Presumably that can be done. I've read tutorials on the web, but they are Debian tutorials and thus not worth very much. If there were an option at install or even an Ubuntu-style tutorial for how to do a custom install I would be happy. If I'm wrong in my comments, by all means, point me in the right direction to a method that doesn't require installation without a GUI and the manipulation of configuration files. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 1:01 PM EDT |
For getting KDE instead of gnome, I need only install the base package, then do: apt-get install kde apt-get install kdm apt-get install synaptic I assume that you need only substitute xfce for kde to get that desktop |
| SFN Dec 18, 2006 1:04 PM EDT |
Quoting:What I would like is to install xfce only, and just the packages I need. Presumably that can be done. I've read tutorials on the web, but they are Debian tutorials and thus not worth very much. If there were an option at install or even an Ubuntu-style tutorial for how to do a custom install I would be happy. Is this the kind of thing you're looking for? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=30896 |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 1:11 PM EDT |
Ok, so you really need x-window-system-core, and xfce4... I wasn't aware that xfxe had it's own x manager. |
| dcparris Dec 18, 2006 1:23 PM EDT |
I was just arguing that users should be given the option of which environment they want during the install, so they don't have to go back and do it later. Why not give them the option during installation? I guess I should have thought to write it that way in my review. |
| bigg Dec 18, 2006 1:32 PM EDT |
Thanks for the info. This is a lot simpler than what's out there, jimf. I will try it when I get some time. The problem I've always had is that I have no clue what packages need to be installed, so hopefully this will do it. SFN: I guess I didn't think to actually look on an Ubuntu forum for an Ubuntu-style tutorial. My experience is that Ubuntu is really slow relative to Debian (I do scientific programming, stuff like Matlab but with open source tools, for a living, so speed is far more important than polish). Gentoo would probably be best, but I have no technical skills. I will try these instructions with Debian Etch. This brings me back to the point in the article: why can't this be handled by the Debian installer itself? It doesn't seem very hard. |
| azerthoth Dec 18, 2006 1:39 PM EDT |
For Debian Etch its really really simple. Using the net install CD 1. Normal install until it asks you if you want network mirrors: Answer no. 2. Finish install and reboot 3. login, go root, nano /etc/apt/sources.list . ADD . deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian etch main contrib . deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian etch main contrib (note the security repo's will already be in your sources.list) 4. apt-get update 5. apt-get install xorg xserver-xorg-core xfce4 6. optional apt-get install (insert favorite login manager gdm,kdm,xdm ...) There you have it. Debian Etch with xfce installed and without gnome or KDE. Apt may spit a few errors about unsigned repositories since we didnt import a key. You also wont have any applications installed either. You'll probably want to add in your web browser, irc client, open office, or other favorite applications. Also note that this isnt a great way to do things for a laptop install as laptops use frequency scaling and none of that is in place with this method so laptops will run at the absolute slowest setting the CPU can manage and wont scale upwards. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 1:52 PM EDT |
> Why not give them the option during installation? Absolutely. Ideally one should have a KDE, or Gnome, or ??? Option. Most of the people I know run KDE rather than Gnome, and, we've been saying that for some time (years). Actually the desktop option did include both Gnome plus KDE at one time. I guess it was too much trouble to maintain? It's great that the Debian installer is now one of the better ones, and, says a lot about how far Linux has progressed, but, you also have to remember that Debian was never intended to be a noob Distro. It is assumed that people who want to install something else will have the ability to just do that. |
| azerthoth Dec 18, 2006 2:52 PM EDT |
I agree that it should be an option. Being that I dont use either Gnome or KDE by choice. I'm also not a big fan of having scads of applications that I'll probably never use being included in the installation. The problem lies in what is the right way. As there isnt a right way for everyone then perhaps its just as well to have some way and then people can modify to taste. There are a lot of things that are personal preferance (beat that redmond) in how things should look, feel, and run that we can tweak to our hearts content. Who is right? I am if you ask me but I'll be the first to admit my way of doing things and setting up my systems is far from what the average joe computer user would be comfortable with. No desktop icons, no start menus or drop down bars, and you can left click all day and nothing will happen. According to me thats the exact right way and anything else is a crutch. According to most people I talk to ... I'v gone to far to the geek side. So what is the "right" desktop? Without a choice during the install it will always be the wrong one for some people. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 3:06 PM EDT |
> Who is right? I am if you ask me but I'll be the first to admit my way of doing things and setting up my systems is far from what the average joe computer user would be comfortable with. Entirely the norm for most of us. I know that my KDE Desktop would give the 'average' user more than a few problems. Most who see it are either asking 'what is that' or, 'how the heck did you do that' :D > So what is the "right" desktop? I think that it's only right that there be a 'default' even if I don't personally agree with it, but, for the more experienced user, it makes little difference. |
| bigg Dec 18, 2006 8:58 PM EDT |
Guess what: IT WORKED!!! I'm writing this from Firefox on my new Debian Etch install. In between diaper changes and feedings, I followed azerthoth's instructions to install it in VMWare. Worked like a charm. Maybe there aren't many people interested in this, but these instructions should be posted on the Debian website for people with old machines or who are bloat-averse. A couple tweaks to add to the instructions: (i) Step 5 should say xfce4 instead of xfce. xfce didn't work but I knew it should be xfce4 from the previous six dozen times I've tried this. (ii) It is best to remove the CD from the repository list in Synaptic unless you actually want to use the CD. That's not the best way to get the most up-to-date software. It is blazing fast even in VMWare. I don't know if I'm crazy, maybe it violates a fundamental law or something, but it seems Etch running in VMWare on Windows XP is faster than Windows XP. Thanks for the help. I might have found a new production OS. This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Debian Etch with XFCE: so easy a caveman can do it. |
| jimf Dec 18, 2006 9:10 PM EDT |
Welcome to Debian bigg :D |
| azerthoth Dec 18, 2006 9:39 PM EDT |
Thanks bigg I fixed that missing 4. |
| dcparris Dec 18, 2006 10:30 PM EDT |
Ah, yes. The CD. You do need to comment out that line. That one stumped me for about 5 minutes, til I thought about it. Yeah, I'm slow. |
| hkwint Dec 19, 2006 10:53 AM EDT |
Quoting:Etch running in VMWare on Windows XP is faster than Windows XP. Not only in that way, Windows XP under VMWare running in Linux is fast too (I use Gentoo with only Windowmaker, Windowmaker is like XFCE but even 'less' bloated, if possible at all). Maybe, if you like Debian, you could try to turn things around, and run VMWare from Debian, and run WinXP in VMWare in turn. I know, a lot of people may flame me (LXer editor) for using Windows XP, but I merely installed VMWare with WinXP on it to test playing some game over our wireless connection, which didn't work that well under wine, and neither under Cedega. However, it didn't work under VMWare as well. Sadly, a lot of games don't work under wine, and a lot of them neither under Cedega. For the rest, all works fine in WindowsXP under VMware in Linux: Sound, graphics, Firefox, all as it should. VMPlayer is gratis (though an EULA applies, so no free software, that's why I use 'gratis') now. BTW: Red Alert 2 is also quicker under Wine than in WindowsXP (OK, my friend has a bloated XP box), but our wireless connection seems to be to slow to use it for WLAN-gaming. Nonetheless, we managed to play Red Alert over the legacy (not used anymore) IPX protocol, between a Windows XP box and my Gentoo box, which was pretty surprising. |
| herzeleid Dec 19, 2006 1:59 PM EDT |
Quoting: bigg: It is blazing fast even in VMWare. I don't know if I'm crazy, maybe it violates a fundamental law or something, but it seems Etch running in VMWare on Windows XP is faster than Windows XP.So, what is keeping you from taking the plunge? Imagine how fast etch would be on the bare metal. Think about it, linux as host, with an expee vmware guest for the occasional pesky legacy program makes a lot of sense, no? |
| bigg Dec 19, 2006 3:52 PM EDT |
It will at some point end up on my office computer. Unfortunately at home, due to our new baby, I only have access to my wife's Windows computer. She uses PCLinux under VMWare because she doesn't trust her computer for things requiring security, but she won't let me install it. I can't even make a dual boot system because she doesn't trust it. It's either a live cd or vmware, but I can't mess with the Windows boot process. So I use VMWare. |
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