13 Applications to Install on...
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| devnet Mar 26, 2007 12:17 PM EDT |
_LINUX_ running on Slow Computer Man, I swear, I'm going to add Ubuntu to every single one of my posts on my blog so I can get it vaulted up by the silly PR buzz that surrounds everything Ubuntu. |
| SFN Mar 26, 2007 12:34 PM EDT |
I thought Ubuntu was already in every one of your posts. |
| DarrenR114 Mar 26, 2007 12:34 PM EDT |
Ubuntu just so you don't add it to every sentence. Cuz that would just be Ubuntu silly. Maybe Ubuntu just in the Ubuntu title? But you're Ubuntu right about it being Ubuntu crazy. Should I mention the Ubuntu installation I got to install on a machine that I couldn't get FC6 to install on? |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 26, 2007 12:38 PM EDT |
Old, but repeated for truth:Quoting:Ubuntu: A swahili word meaning "too stupid to configure Debian" |
| bigg Mar 26, 2007 12:43 PM EDT |
"Recently i managed to install ubuntu on my laptop(IBM Thinkpad Cel 1.4Ghz 256 MB RAM) , which was a very fast machine when i purchased it three and half years back , however things in computers change very fast and now it was a slow moving machine for todays resource hungry
applications ." 1.4 Ghz/256 MB RAM is slow? Wow, I didn't get the memo. "So i decided enough is enough , i wasn't going to spend money buying new hardware but i decided to try some lightweight alternatives to the common applications and use them for my desktop work and here is the applications that i found useful and instructions on how i installed them on my laptop." Sure, that's the ticket. The only alternatives are to run lightweight apps or buy new hardware. News flash. There's a third alternative: run the right OS for your hardware. The problem is with the choice of OS, not the apps. Vista barely runs on a laptop with 1.86 Ghz/512 MB RAM. Does that mean we should use Notepad rather than MS Word? Ubuntu might be the eighth wonder of the world (emphasis on might) but it's not intended for slow computers. |
| tuxchick Mar 26, 2007 1:05 PM EDT |
LOL devnet. I confess I have the same irritated reaction- there are all kinds of 'Ubuntu' sites now that make it sound like There Can Be Only One. OTOH the more the merrier, and new Ubuntu users will find their way into other FOSS arenas too. |
| jimf Mar 26, 2007 1:08 PM EDT |
> Ubuntu: A swahili word meaning "too stupid to configure Debian" Well sort of.... 'buntu' from the Zulu language, Is a word which has been tragical misused by many. Some have interpreted it as a symbol for community, but that just isn't true. The real translation can be obtained by simply breaking the word into it syllabic components. Seen as two syllables, 'bun' meaning 'full of', and 'tu' meaning 'it'. So obviously, we are referring to something or someone who is full of it. Placing the common 'u' prefix with this phrase and the translation becomes 'you're full of it'. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 26, 2007 1:15 PM EDT |
LOL@jimf :-)Quoting:new Ubuntu users will find their way into other FOSS arenas too. True. Keeping an occasional eye on the Ubuntu forums and a couple of Debian mailinglists, I see a small but steady flow of people moving from Ubuntu to Debian. I also heared that Sabayon and Linux Mint are feeding off Ubuntu users because they come with the 3D desktop pre-installed, but I don't have any links handy to back that up. |
| azerthoth Mar 26, 2007 1:28 PM EDT |
I can vouch for Sabayon. I played with it for a little bit until I was reminded harshy (system blew up) that I am far from geek enough to be playing with Gentoo on a regular basis. That was 1 version back though, it may have changed, however the USE flags eat my lunch fairly reliably. |
| Bob_Robertson Mar 26, 2007 1:34 PM EDT |
Ubuntu is a good way to install Debian. That's always been the most difficult part, and the latest Debian installer is far, far easier than even the one a single release before. So many fewer questions, basically "language?", "time zone?", "is this partition to your liking?", "root password please?", "first username?", "username password?" Thank you. Welcome to Debian. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 26, 2007 1:41 PM EDT |
Even better: These days the installer doesn't have to reboot halfway through. *Everything* is installed and setup before it asks you to boot into your new system. With the old installer I occasionally had problems with the halfway reboot that dumped me to the shell. Figuring out how to start the second part of the install after repairing the system is something I never managed to do. |
| Bob_Robertson Mar 26, 2007 1:51 PM EDT |
Oh. Well, I _like_ being dumped to the shell. I think I didn't notice because that is what I told it to do. I don't like tasksel or aptitude, I just use dselect after pointing to Unstable. I want as minimal as possible an install first. |
| tracyanne Mar 26, 2007 1:56 PM EDT |
I'm running Mandriva 2007.0 with the full 3D desktop on an ASUS L1400 (1Gig P3 CPU, 768MB RAM - standard was 256 + I added 512 at time of purchase). I bought the Machine in May 2002. I have no trouble running any of the standard FOSS applications that come with Mandriva, that includes Open Office.org. This bloke is talking through a hole in the back of his neck. |
| devnet Mar 26, 2007 2:39 PM EDT |
I agree TC, it's good to get users to Linux. But I hate the non-stop barrage of nonsense like: Ubuntu is the greatest! Ubuntu washed my car! Ubuntu takes my dog for walks! Ubuntu painted my house! I especially hate articles that are written that are general Linux articles and someone slaps "Ubuntu" on it and ships it to digg. That really bugs me. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 26, 2007 2:54 PM EDT |
Well, if it could wash my car and paint my house I'd surely set it up on a spare box here. My house could use a paintjob :-) |
| jimf Mar 26, 2007 3:04 PM EDT |
True sander, but, I still wouldn't trust it with my dog. |
| vainrveenr Mar 26, 2007 3:46 PM EDT |
Also agree that Ubuntu is *very* hyped, even overhyped?? If a computer is really as slow as (or even slower than) an IBM Thinkpad Cel 1.4Ghz 256 MB RAM, then maybe DamnSmallLinux is a _MUCH_ better option than the Ubiquitous Ubuntu!! There are plenty enough lightweight DSL options what with DSL's cheatcodes and MyDSL extensions. :2cents: |
| swbrown Mar 26, 2007 3:51 PM EDT |
> I especially hate articles that are written that are general Linux articles and someone slaps "Ubuntu" on it and ships it to digg. The funniest thing is how even many "Debian" news sites cover mostly Ubuntu. Here's a sampling: http://debianhomepage.org/ |
| jimf Mar 26, 2007 4:11 PM EDT |
> The funniest thing is how many "Debian" news sites cover mostly Ubuntu. Unless you're downright buntu-hostile, they just keep flooding in. Lately, I've been rejecting some of the more stupidly blatent buntu stuff for DebCentral. Another big annoyance to me are the how-tos on features and apps for 'buntu'. As if Debian won't do those things just as or even more easily. The only thing that buntu does really well is puffery. |
| bigg Mar 26, 2007 4:46 PM EDT |
@vainrveenr DSL is one option, but that machine is way more powerful than necessary to run Debian. DSL is okay. I doubt that it is suitable for most users though, as it looks like Windows 95. Debian gives you everything you get with Ubuntu and more. |
| dcparris Mar 26, 2007 5:46 PM EDT |
vainrveenr: Have you seen my posts about running Debian Etch on PII-450MHz boxes? Makes the 3GHz box at work seem hopelessly overpowered. But in its defense, it *is* running WinXP. ;-) |
| Bob_Robertson Mar 26, 2007 5:54 PM EDT |
My 350MHz K6 with 128MB runs today's Debian Unstable just fine. OpenOffice, IceWeasel, Battle For Westnoth, and of course anything and everything that works on the command line. I don't grasp how a 1GHz machine can be called "slow" by anyone but a Windows user. |
| richo123 Mar 26, 2007 6:30 PM EDT |
14. Beat up on Debian founder Murdock because he missed out on being Mark Shuttleworth and instead says Debian is dying because of lack of leadership and to top it off joins Sun. The world is indeed a funny place at present! BTW there is enough sunshine for both Debian and Ubuntu imho. I look at it positively, Ubuntu will attract a slew of new Debian converts (eventually)... Debian is going very nicely at present in my estimation. As is Ubuntu. Why the griping? |
| vainrveenr Mar 26, 2007 6:31 PM EDT |
Not only Debian and its lightweight distro relatives such as DSL, but also SLAX (last LXer piece by phoronix on Feb 11, 2007) and certainly Puppy (last LXer by SamShazaam on Mar 6, 2007) both run faster than buntu. I happen to find the similar cheatcode usage of DSL and SLAX quite flexible and useful; DSL especially nice for a low-footprint pendrive or "Poormans" install on a previously-existing Windows partition, see http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/wiki/index.php/Floppy_Only_Ins...). Have already commented on SamShazaam's submission, the apparent drawback of Puppy, as blazing fast and fine as Puppy may be on boxes perhaps even slower than those used above ;-) |
| bigg Mar 26, 2007 6:37 PM EDT |
@richo123 I don't think the griping is about Ubuntu. I think it is mostly about the annoying Ubuntu users who think they've discovered a cure for cancer. |
| jimf Mar 26, 2007 7:44 PM EDT |
> Ubuntu will attract a slew of new Debian converts (eventually)... Well, they do seem to atract mobs of 'users', in the basest sense. If they ever get to Debian... 'eventually' is certainly the key word here. > the annoying Ubuntu users who think they've discovered a cure for cancer. If it were only true ;-) |
| richo123 Mar 27, 2007 4:35 AM EDT |
Bigg,
Cut them some slack. Using XP for too long lowers expectations (and brain power?). jimf, I am a denizen (right word?) of the Ubuntu forum and I would guess maybe 30% of the XP tsunami become educated. Another 30% start threads like: "Ubuntu sucks because I had to configure my video card so I am going back to Bill". Its a mixed bag but a steady conversion seems to be occuring. |
| devnet Mar 27, 2007 5:18 AM EDT |
I sure wish Ubuntu "did it for me" but I just can't get into it. I'm more apt to use SimplyMEPIS and JimF knows what a huge step that would be for me :) I guess the thing that gets me is that people push it toward the new user and I just can't fathom that with distros like Sabayon, Vector, PCLOS, Freespire, Xandros, and SimplyMEPIS who seem more in a position to give a user a positive experience. It's all about perception...if a user perceives that their experience is good, they're more apt to try out other distros. I think those distros have incentive in their ease of use that Ubuntu can't match. |
| richo123 Mar 27, 2007 5:46 AM EDT |
devnet, I would agree that the distros you mention do possibly have the ease of use advantage you mention. What I have found gives Ubuntu an advantage is the forum i.e. the community. The amount of helpful information there is quite amazing at times. If you google a linux problem chances are the Ubuntu forums will be on the first page of hits. So the hype plus Shuttleworth's millions has delivered the crowds and the code of conduct has delivered a helpful subsection of this crowd onto to the forums..... Personally if Shuttleworth becomes a Larry Ellison (or a softer gentler variant) I am out of there and I am really glad Debian still looks healthy. |
| bigg Mar 27, 2007 6:45 AM EDT |
> What I have found gives Ubuntu an advantage is the forum i.e. the community. I was able to finally give up Windows completely right after Ubuntu 5.04 came out. The guide for new users was what did it for me, with some aid from Google. Almost every question can be found in either the documentation or with Google. It also helped that Ubuntu came with a good selection of packages, much better than PCLOS at that time (maybe that's changed). A variety of factors have pushed me to Debian, but Ubuntu was the best for me as a new user. |
| devnet Mar 27, 2007 7:31 AM EDT |
Quoting:The guide for new users was what did it for me, I remember that...we released a couple of new user guides for .92 of PCLOS at the same time. I made fun of how boring it was to read their new user guide because it was without screenshots and practical examples :D They've vastly improved though. Quoting:What I have found gives Ubuntu an advantage is the forum i.e. the community. The amount of helpful information there is quite amazing at times. If you google a linux problem chances are the Ubuntu forums will be on the first page of hits. But a large amount of responses from one place can also be daunting as well. I know a few people have felt overwhelmed at the amount of information available that seems to contradict each other. This is why having good documentation or a central resource for any distro is a good idea. What's nice about Linspire and Xandros is they have a manual. I think this gets users going right away and makes them feel comfortable. I mean, if their problem is they can't get online, how are they going to get to the fantastic forums? But anyway, I'm rambling a bit. I know that I find most of my answers at linuxquestions. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 27, 2007 8:16 AM EDT |
Ubuntu's archilles heel is the vast ammount of outdated and incorrect information on the ubuntu forums. The wiki's are better but there's not enough people being pushed there. Perhaps we need a new kind of online collaboration to support such vast ammounts of users. I'm thinking a cross between a wiki and a forum. Imagine a wiki where each article's discussion page is a full-blown forum that can hold multiple discussion topics. Then imagine that you group wiki articles, alongside with their attached topics, into categories. A category page would then at the top (or side) list all the articles in that category and in the main view all the forum topics associated with it those articles (plus discussions about the category not associated with an article). Sort of like a forum where the HOWTO stickes are grouped separately from the main discussions and which can be edited by anyone. |
| Bob_Robertson Mar 27, 2007 8:17 AM EDT |
Speaking of manuals, don't forget that that each time Debian does a stable release, someone writes a book about it. http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-076457644... http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/debian/chapter/book/ etc. |
| SFN Mar 27, 2007 8:22 AM EDT |
Quoting:Ubuntu's archilles heel is the vast ammount of outdated and incorrect information on the ubuntu forums. The wiki's are better but there's not enough people being pushed there. Perhaps we need a new kind of online collaboration to support such vast ammounts of users. I'm thinking a cross between a wiki and a forum. Well, that's more the Achilles' Heel of forums than of Ubuntu. Have you looked at the Document Storage Facility? http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Page |
| richo123 Mar 27, 2007 8:59 AM EDT |
> Ubuntu's archilles heel is the vast ammount of outdated and incorrect information on the ubuntu forums. The wiki's are better but there's not enough people being pushed there. What you say has some truth however sorting out what is dated information usually is not a large chore. As for misinformation that is the nature of community unfortunately. I have not noticed an overwhelming amount of it myself and you can always count on some "helpful" individual to point out the inadequacies of a particular response. One other thing you overlook is the interactivity aspect. If you have a question you usually get a very large number of leads in a short time. Of course only a ditz would trust everything posted without trying stuff oneself but it has certainly helped me out many times.... |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 27, 2007 9:00 AM EDT |
The document storage facility isn't community oriented enough. That's why everybody goes to the forums. Somehow you need to comibine the active and temporary nature of a forum and it's discussions with the maintainability and central standing of a wiki. You need to combine the best of both worlds, if you catch my drift. Documentation and discussion should be one central entity, not two (wiki and forum, of dsf and forum). |
| devnet Mar 27, 2007 10:05 AM EDT |
i think if someone was able to combine tagging in a forum that a docs team would be able to 'tag solutions' that it could be very nice for finding info. Of course, that all depends on how good they are at labeling the tags too :) |
| SFN Mar 27, 2007 10:50 AM EDT |
Quoting:i think if someone was able to combine tagging in a forum that a docs team would be able to 'tag solutions' that it could be very nice for finding info. That's a great idea. Sort of a flickr for documentation. |
| number6x Mar 27, 2007 11:32 AM EDT |
"I'm more apt to use SimplyMEPIS and JimF knows what a huge step that would be for me :)" Wow! Devnet, You should stick with PCLOS. It is a great distro. I have used Mepis as an easy debian installer and to give out to newbies, but I have more debian experience. I think the latest version (the second based on Ubuntu) does a lot to fill in the missing parts in 'buntu and to knock off the edges that annoy me most in 'buntu. That said, you have long supported PCLOS and helped champion it. Don't give up on it so easily Give SAM 2007 a try. Its PCLOS based. |
| devnet Mar 27, 2007 12:45 PM EDT |
Oh no...I'll not give up PCLOS :D It's my #1. It's not my number 1 debian based for obvious reasons (being that it isn't debian based lol) |
| jimf Mar 27, 2007 12:48 PM EDT |
@ number6x I think there was more than a little irony in devnet's statement. I doubt he'll be using Mepis soon. |
| number6x Mar 27, 2007 2:19 PM EDT |
I went to Mepis after Libranet's founder and lead developer died. Libranet was a nice clean debian based distro that, IMMHO, got the 'commercial distro' idea correct. Ship a free version that was un-encumbered with proprietary stuff. Allow users to add proprietary things with an installer. Gather all of the management tools together in one place. Libranet was a great distro. |
| Sander_Marechal Mar 27, 2007 2:19 PM EDT |
SFN: There are already various forums out there that support tagging. |
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