Congratulations!
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| richo123 Apr 08, 2007 10:16 AM EDT |
To all the 1000 odd developers, thanks a lot. This is a great community effort and it is great that the time to release is shorter than for sarge. Just shows that a cooperative can work! |
| jimf Apr 08, 2007 11:00 AM EDT |
This is about 3 1/2 - 4 months over the project deadline. Not bad for the Distro that covers multiple hardware platforms and arguably more apps than any other. All that and quality control that absolutely sets the standard. The final result is nothing short of amazing. 'When it's ready' indeed. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 08, 2007 12:39 PM EDT |
Indeed. I don't think the people who complain about the missed deadlines have any idea what supporting 11 hardware architectures really means. All of Microsoft supports, what, 3? |
| tuxtom Apr 08, 2007 3:52 PM EDT |
True, but 9 out of those 11 architectures are irrelevant to 99% of the user base. |
| jsusanka Apr 08, 2007 4:41 PM EDT |
Yes congratulations to all the developers - can't wait to try it out. WAY TO GO!! |
| jdixon Apr 08, 2007 7:18 PM EDT |
> True, but 9 out of those 11 architectures are irrelevant to 99% of the user base. If you don't want all of those platforms, use Ubuntu. They only seem to support four. |
| jdixon Apr 08, 2007 7:31 PM EDT |
> All of Microsoft supports, what, 3? AFAIK, only two now. They dropped support for the Alpha, so I think all they support now is x86 32 bit and x86 64 bit. |
| tuxtom Apr 08, 2007 10:56 PM EDT |
@jdixon: Those sound like the words of a jealous lover: "If I'm not good enough then why don't you go run off with that little hussie?" Telling me to go to Ubuntu may have been sarcastic for you, but I read it as defeatist. Does having more platforms make a better distribution in and of itself? How many of those 11 platforms do you use? How many do you seriously depend on? How many were you needing an updated distribution release for? I'll bet it was only i386. I could be wrong, but I'll bet it was only i386...the platform Linux was originally written for. The fact remains that the more exotic platforms are the ones that are in the least hurry to get an upgraded distribution (i.e. legacy hardware running legacy applications). I seriously doubt the Alpha or S/390 crowd were really needing the latest xorg desktop packages. To use them as an excuse to remain a solid second place to Microsoft in the desktop-release arena is pitiful. Debian may have a loyal user base, but it certainly doesn't have growing one. The 15 year-olds will ultimately be the ones deciding Debian's fate, and they are going to be feisty. BTW: I downloaded the Etch/KDE iso Friday...purely coincidental to the announced release, as it turned out. I was happy with the installation and the resulting desktop from 1 CD (which is already a well-established practice in the industry), but networking was hosed when I booted into the new system. It DHCP'd in the installation just fine, but I had to manually bring eth0 up as superuser and run dhclient in the new system. I could spend some time digging into it Monday...but I need to get work done, not spend time debugging a new distro release. I guess i386 wasn't quite ready. THANKS OBSOLETE ARCHITECTURES!!!! I really wanted to be pure and use Debian but now I have to grow up. |
| jimf Apr 08, 2007 11:48 PM EDT |
> I really wanted to be pure and use Debian but now I have to grow up. You are entirely entitled to use Debian, or, to choose to Ubuntu if you prefer. The Distro you decide on is really entirely your choice. What's disturbing is your selfish and shortsighted attitude toward Debian's decision to support other architectures. I don't know what the exact percentage of who uses what, but, while x86 is the preponderance of the figure, there are a lot of users out there who do use other architectures. The Debian developers seem to think that they're worthwhile supporting. Your pouting and ranting about attention taken from your favorite platform won't change that, or the Debian release dates... So yes, you probably do need to grow up. |
| helios Apr 09, 2007 2:48 AM EDT |
Debian may have a loyal user base, but it certainly doesn't have growing one... Not to be argumentative, far be it from me to ever be so but I must disagree. Many of us are beginning to see through the fog of war (distro battles that is) and realize that debian, for all intent and purpose, will probably be the base for any "united distro" that may emerge...oh, emerge...that could be confusing to some. Sorry. It makes more sense than saying "...will probably be the base for any "united distro" that may apt-get. My corporation, which recently purged every nanobyte of MS code from their computers has decided to go with Debian for the large part. We've been working with the Debian folks for two months on a bank of 9 computers here at my shop and we like what we are seeing under the hood. Our accounting department will stay with Mepis for now but the rest of the machines will go Debian by the end of next week. While Ubuntu is certainly the golden child of Linux at this time, Debian presents a much more "professional" demeanor and stable repository. Going from Fedora 6 to Debian may be a bit of a system shock for many but since I've hired nothing but Linux guys (and two of those "guys" are women mind you) the change over will be less traumatic for all. "The 15 year-olds will ultimately be the ones deciding Debian's fate, and they are going to be feisty." No...while it may seem to be the Truth of The Moment, it can't and won't last. Too many people are looking to a stable community environment these days. The Ubuntu devs are doing a fantastic job in bringing this distro along and yes, it may well mature to be the official "face" of Linux. However, those who are responsible for the billions of dollars in enterprise and the stockholders within are going to look past the pretty logos and hippy/new-age mantras. Debian is a growing Linux Base. The uptake in Deb4 will prove that out. h |
| bigg Apr 09, 2007 7:05 AM EDT |
> Debian may have a loyal user base, but it certainly doesn't have growing one. Strange, I was under the impression that Ubuntu usage was growing. |
| Scott_Ruecker Apr 09, 2007 7:40 AM EDT |
>Strange, I was under the impression that Ubuntu usage was growing. But Ubuntu is not Debian, otherwise it would be called Debian, no? |
| bigg Apr 09, 2007 8:14 AM EDT |
> But Ubuntu is not Debian, otherwise it would be called Debian, no? I think you would agree that someone using Kubuntu or Xubuntu or Edubuntu is using Ubuntu. Debian provides the foundation, Ubuntu is a little bit of polish for people who like what they have done, but it's hard to draw a firm distinction when 99% of what you do in Ubuntu is taken from Debian. |
| jdixon Apr 09, 2007 8:22 AM EDT |
> @jdixon: Those sound like the words of a jealous lover: Not hardly. I use Slackware. > Telling me to go to Ubuntu may have been sarcastic for you, but I read it as defeatist. Neither. If you don't want the developers for your distribution supporting all of those platforms, use one which doesn't. What could be more simple? > Does having more platforms make a better distribution in and of itself? For the people using those platform, yes. For those who don't, probably not. > How many of those 11 platforms do you use? How many do you seriously depend on? How many were you needing an updated distribution release for? See above. I don't use Debian. I keep an eye on it, try it out occasionally, and recommend it to those I think might like it; but I prefer Slackware for my personal use. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 09, 2007 10:54 AM EDT |
Indeed, I have used Debian on exactly two architectures: x86 (AMD and INTEL), and SPARC. SPARC, hands down, is the better architecture. A Sparc20 with a 50MHz CPU runs circles around any Pentium 1 or 2 or for that matter 3. It is simply a more optimized set of hardware. The last time I was looking on Ebay, "obsolete" SPARC hardware is still selling at decent prices, for good reason. They make _great_ servers. When I was in Japan, in the raised-floor computer room of one of the really big investment banks, there were SPARC-10 and -20 pizza boxes stacked, literally stacked, by the dozens. Because of their security requirements, the machines were cheaper to store than to throw away. I should have begged on my knees... ...well, I did, but only for a moment as a joke. At least that's what they thought it was... |
| jezuch Apr 09, 2007 3:20 PM EDT |
...and I suppose ARM on all those cell phones will soon outnumber all yer desktops (even if they don't run Debian... yet). That's why I think "9 out of those 11 architectures are irrelevant to 99% of the user base" is, well, uneducated ;) |
| Sander_Marechal Apr 09, 2007 9:58 PM EDT |
I agree with Jezuch. Also think of the thin clients and all other kind of devices that will run Linux. Music players, NAS boxes, etcetera. I'd say the importance of x86 and x86_64 is lowering. Not because of less systems in use, but because the other architectures are growing faster. |
| tuxtom Apr 10, 2007 12:19 AM EDT |
@jimf: Some of us might not necessarily buy the entire doctrine or revere the leaders as much as others do. Most of us take what we need and leave the rest. No offense. It's all part of having a community. If it weren't for guys like us you'd have a cult...a very small cult with very old computers. I encourage everyone I can to use something Debian-based (except the Apple set...that's a REAL cult). At work, I am standardizing the host environment for embedded development on Debian. I had to fight to use Debian over RedHat. The more conservative crowd likes to stick with a name that's familiar. Debian is still esoteric to a good chunk of the mainstream who associate Linux with RedHat. I really didn't want to use Ubuntu(s), though for most desktop stuff I would recommend them or MEPIS. Debian is the right answer for our environment. @jezuch & @sander: I am working on embedded projects using Linux on an ARM9 board and NutOS on an ARM7. Embedded is the future, but if anything I see x86 and x86_64 becoming more prevalent in embedded...they're getting smaller, cheaper, cooler and more embeddable while application requirements are outgrowing the current embedded processors. Call me uneducated, but I don't think most of the Linux user base knows what ARM is...and a good chunk of the ARM developer base doesn't know much about Linux. Additionally, you are referring to consumers who don't even know their phone is running an operating system, much less the architecture of their chipset. They weren't holding their breath for Etch to be officially realeased. Debian is irrelevant to them. If their cell phones are running Linux it's MontaVista, anyway. @Bob: Why not Solaris on Sparc servers? Seems like the right thing to do. For the record, I am not against other architectures or supporting other architectures in a Linux distribution. But you can't be everything to everybody and expect to have a superior product or a competitive advantage. I do see a lot of growth in "Debian-like" operating systems...just not Debian. Maybe this release will turn that around. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 10, 2007 5:55 AM EDT |
"Why not Solaris on Sparc servers? Seems like the right thing to do. " Because I'm a Linux _bigot_. I used Solaris, and the file structures are much more chaotic than Debian, administration is more difficult, etc. Oh sure, it's easy to say "it's all Unix", but the Solaris theory is building upon layers. Debian assumes the basic file structure first, then only adds what is asked for and/or needed. How wonderful not to have initrd.gz and vmlinuz in the / directory! A clean root with directories containing files. Ah, clean! |
| tuxchick Apr 10, 2007 9:35 AM EDT |
Solaris is an awful pain to install, upgrade, and administer, and installing applications is for masochists. OTOH it's the most advanced operating system in my not-humble opinion, what with ZFS and dtrace and its ability to handle astonishingly large loads with ease. If I ever had to run some big old mainframe that had to be up all the time and no excuses, I would use Solaris. For everything else, meh, life is too short. Give me aptitude or Yum, GNU tools, and all the other goodies that make Linux easy and fun. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 10, 2007 4:15 PM EDT |
" If I ever had to run some big old mainframe that had to be up all the time and no excuses, I would use Solaris." Ah, one of the Debian architectures is S390. So for the big old mainframe that has to be up all the time, I'll use Debian. |
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