Hmmm... yet another GNU/Linux installation walkthru
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| erikb5 Apr 24, 2007 6:31 AM EDT |
I'm sorry, but it seems most of the reviews of GNU/Linux these days are installation walkthru. May they be with screenshots or with the different steps described above. I think a proper review should not be based on just the install process, but with a usability review (say a week) after using the OS, or having a IT beginner use the system. Also how and what applications are missing from a default install and how easy it is to get them. |
| bigg Apr 24, 2007 6:36 AM EDT |
> most of the reviews of GNU/Linux these days are installation walkthru In particular, the ones with titles that start with "Installing" rather "A Review of". |
| erikb5 Apr 24, 2007 6:36 AM EDT |
Sorry for the strong view. It's not directly directed to the writer of the orginal article, but it's a Trend that I start seeing more and more and is getting on my nerves. One does not become a GNU/Linux guru, just by pumping distros in a machine... |
| Abe Apr 24, 2007 6:57 AM EDT |
These days, the most effective method to demonstrate and present any computer applications or create users guides is to produce video clips. Be it a flash or otherwise, we need to have video clips on how to install, manage and use OS & software application. Unfortunately, there isn't one good tool to do that on Linux yet. But with VMWare, we should be able to use any tool that is for Windows only. I wish FOSS developers give this area more attention because it sure makes demonstrating FOSS software very easy and effective and in a powerful way . |
| hughesjr Apr 24, 2007 7:55 AM EDT |
I would point out that CentOS-5.0 has been released, and I would recommend that it be used instead of CentOS-4.4 for desktop use. CentOS-4.4 is still a stable platform with support until 2012, but as noted in the article, OpenOffice (and gimp, etc.) are fairly dated. However, I would also note that you can download the OpenOffice.org RPM files from OOo and install on CentOS-4.4 just fine. The same holds true for Firefox-2.0. Those are not the only applications that are getting a little long in the tooth though in CentOS-4.4 on the Desktop ... as the samba version has some issues with Active Directory and the Evolution kind of old, etc. That is not to say that CentOS-4.4 is not a good desktop OS, I still use it as my main workstation at the office .... but CentOS-5.0 has some newer workstation type applications, including Beryl, that is available from: http://centos.karan.org/ |
| vainrveenr Apr 24, 2007 8:08 AM EDT |
> "I think a proper review should not be based on just the install process, but with a usability review (say a week) after using the OS, or having a IT beginner use the system." Strong support for this POV just came out from the following paragraphs of iTWire's 'The hard truth about installing Linux', http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/11532/1023/1/0/ : Second paragraph Quoting:The hard fact is that most computer users don't want to go through the pain of installing an operating system. They just want to turn on their computer and start using it.Penultimate paragraph Quoting: Like many computer users, I want to be able to walk in to a computer store and walk out with a working Linux computer, whether it be a Dell, HP, Acer or a white box. I want to take that computer home and be able to connect it to my printer, scanner and digital camera and have them recognised. If it's a laptop, I want to take that computer into a wireless hotspot, click on a view available networks icon and, provided I have the WEP key, be able to connect to the Internet. 1) Usability reviews 2) Use of the systems by IT Beginners Hopefully, future distro reviewers can pay attention! |
| tuxchick Apr 24, 2007 8:10 AM EDT |
The Pre-Installed Linux Vendor Database is thisaway:
http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14 edit: I also encourage folks to do their own reviews- the more the merrier! I agree that some longer-term usability reviews would be interesting. for CentOS it would be pretty dull- 'Day 180: everything still works." About the only bugaboo I can recall is limited package selection from the official repos- if you're used to the freewheelin' Debian-Everything world, CentOS is going to feel a bit restrictive. But that's the point- they don't include packages that are not on RHEL, and Red Hat does not include or upgrade packages without testing and patching. You can always install anything you want, just for non-included packages it's going to take a bit more work. |
| jimf Apr 24, 2007 10:02 AM EDT |
> the freewheelin' Debian-Everything world I think that comment shows a huge change in the way Debian is viewed and used. Remember that, until quite recently, Debian was only for the conservative business and server guys with grampa high waist bands, Now it's used for the hottest Desktops as well, and Distros like CentOS are perceived as conservative. |
| Sander_Marechal Apr 24, 2007 12:10 PM EDT |
Quoting:I think that comment shows a huge change in the way Debian is viewed and used. And that has two major reasons: 1) The size of the Debian repository more than doubles with each release 2) Ubuntu, among other's, have shown for the last couple of years that Debian Unstable is actually quite stable and therefor very much suited for a home desktop. Believe me, within the year, Debian stable will belong to the "conservative business and server guys with grampa high waist bands" again :-) |
| dcparris Apr 24, 2007 12:47 PM EDT |
What made anyone think this was a review? It's a bloomin' how-to. A brief, to the point howto, but definitely not a review. The Author |
| jimf Apr 24, 2007 1:47 PM EDT |
> definitely not a review. Good point Don. The problem is that some people (even the writers) are starting to think that any install tutorial == review. Obviously (?) that isn't so. |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 24, 2007 1:50 PM EDT |
Quoting: What made anyone think this was a review? Good Q, very good Q. I think having installation overviews is a great thing, and the fact that the title says it's about installation was a very good clue to that point. Quoting: for CentOS it would be pretty dull- 'Day 180: everything still works." I use 4.4 at work...yes, it's a very dull distro that simply allows me to get my work done. No excitement there. I'd use Gentoo (just joking!) but my old PC would take three weeks to compile any updates. :) Give me boring at work any day of the week. CentOS is so far ahead of Windows (and most other distros) in terms of stability that it ain't even funny. |
| dcparris Apr 24, 2007 3:32 PM EDT |
I admit I was shocked that 4.4 still had OOo 1.x - 2.0 launched last year! I suppose the Ubuntu-speed projects have my head spinning. Anyway, I now have the Centos 5.0 CDs downloaded - just need to burn and then install over top of the 4.4 system. No, I'm not upgrading. I'm playing and testing - probably more of the former than the latter. Hopefully, I'll finish up my review of Vector Linux tonight and get it on the wire for tomorrow. It's an actual review, and one I hope folks will enjoy. ;-) |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 24, 2007 3:49 PM EDT |
Quoting: I admit I was shocked that 4.4 still had OOo 1.x - 2.0 launched last year! I suppose the Ubuntu-speed projects have my head spinning. My advice is to not install OOo from the CDs, even on 5, and to download the latest and greatest from OOo.org, then just upgrade as needed from there. I am surprised also, however, that the CentOS-specific repos don't have 2.0. If you go with the 100% compatible Red Hat repos, you're stuck with MySQL 4.1, but adding the CentOS repos gives you access to 5.x, and it's far more up to date overall...I guess installing and updating OOo on your own is so easy they don't feel the need. |
| hughesjr Apr 25, 2007 12:27 AM EDT |
@rijelkentaurus: The reason we did not add OOo version 2.x to the centos repos is a combination of 2 things: 1. To compile the 2.x SRPMS (from OpenOffice.org) one needs to add many things that are not part of CentOS-4.x Base ... once compiled, it will run on CentOS-4.x. Some of the things we can't distribute (java related), so that means that CentOS users can't recompile the SRPMS with things we provide. We don't like to ship things like that, and won't unless we have to. 2. The OpenOffice.org version 2.x works as is and is provided by them in an RPM format. Since it works, and because of comment 1, we just recommend using the OpenOffice.org RPMS for those who would upgrade. Obviously if Red Hat moved OpenOffice.org 2.x into their EL4 product, then CentOS would do so as well. Johnny Hughes CentOS Developer |
| dcparris Apr 25, 2007 2:09 AM EDT |
Thanks for piping up, Johnny! I haven't messed with anything RH-based since Red Hat 7.2. Thus, I have no clue where CentOS/Red Hat stand on development these days - this installation was my first clue. I've dl'd the 5.0 CDs and will try to burn them this week some time. I really want to try out the newer version of CentOS. ;-) |
| rijelkentaurus Apr 25, 2007 6:59 AM EDT |
Quoting: The reason we did not add OOo version 2.x to the centos repos is a combination of 2 things: Cool, thanks for the clarification, and thanks for all the work on CentOS. Great stuff. |
| tuxchick Apr 25, 2007 7:13 AM EDT |
Hey, hughesjr is the famous Johnny Hughes of Jerry Taylor, the infamous city manager of Tuttle, Oklahoma fame! w00t! Your place in geek history is assured.
http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=127 |
| hughesjr Apr 25, 2007 1:27 PM EDT |
tuxchick ... hehehe That is a whole lot funnier now than it was then :P |
| tuxchick Apr 25, 2007 2:03 PM EDT |
hughesjr, you handled the whole thing admirably. And even better, went public. :D |
| jimf Apr 25, 2007 2:10 PM EDT |
> That is a whole lot funnier now than it was then :P It's certainly disconcerting to be suddenly and inexplicably thrust into theater of the absurd ;-) |
| hughesjr May 18, 2007 1:34 AM EDT |
@dcparris Believe it or not ... in the new update set, the upstream provider has included OpenOffice-2. If you still have your centos-4.4 install, you can install OOo2 with this command: yum install openoffice.org2-base openoffice.org2-calc openoffice.org2-core openoffice.org2-draw openoffice.org2-emailmerge openoffice.org2-graphicfilter openoffice.org2-impress openoffice.org2-javafilter openoffice.org2-math openoffice.org2-pyuno openoffice.org2-testtools openoffice.org2-writer openoffice.org2-xsltfilter |
| dcparris May 18, 2007 6:33 AM EDT |
Thanks. CentOS 5 is out now, and it is only because I have been tied up with other stuff that I haven't had the chance yet to try it out. I really was shocked that 4.4 didn't have OOo2, since it came out some time ago. |
| tuxchick May 18, 2007 7:18 AM EDT |
Oh hurrah, now CentOS users get to enjoy the same OOo irritations as the users of faster-moving Linux distributions! Yaaaay! |
| dcparris May 18, 2007 7:40 AM EDT |
:-) Sorry TC, but I can't stand to look at KOffice - it hurts my eyes. The GNOME office suite hasn't endeared itself to me either. Not that they are bad, I just feel like it's more of a jump than I am willing to make. I still miss the old StarOffice 5.2. I liked being able to open different documents in tabs instead of new windows. Oh well. |
| tuxchick May 18, 2007 8:41 AM EDT |
There are a lot of things I like about OOo, and some things are absolutely GAAAHH. The Styles and the frame-oriented page layout are wonderful. The dev's ideas of usability are GAAAHHH, like turning on every last dommed annoying pesky auto-feature and making it way too hard to turn all that crap off. Somewhere in a recent release they decided that contextual toolbars would be a good thing. So when the cursor passes over bulleted or outlined text, for one example, BOING up pops the bullets and outline toolbar, which makes the whole page jump around while everything re-positions. Then when you move on to non-bulleted text the toolbar goes away and more jumping about ensues. Yaaayy! All the fun of epilepsy without the negative effects! Having a standalone font system is dumb. Having its own printer subsystem is dumb, especially since it doesn't include all the supported features in your printer drivers. Or maybe it does in the Windows edition, and as usual us Linux users are shoved to the back of the bus. Documentation is mediocre, but fortunately there are several good print books. There was no migration path from 1.0 to 2.0, so everyone who had invested in custom settings and macros had to start over. The lists and forums had many requests from users about this, but last time I looked there were no answers. The #1 most-requested feature is a good outlining tool for Writer. So you can collapse and expand the various levels of your outline, print the different outline views, and all those neat things we 21st-century users expect. I don't know if that's even on their roadmap, but what I've heard so far is a lack of interest. Sooo...I still like it a lot. But it has a long way to go, and I'm not sure they're even aiming in the right direction. I'm keeping my eye on KOffice, since KDE (at least for me) has a better history of coming up with fully-featured, usable applications. |
| bigg May 18, 2007 9:10 AM EDT |
My favorite word processors are, in this order, (1) KWord, (2) AbiWord, and (3) OOo Writer. However, for the little bit I use a word processor (normally I use LyX) I only use OOo. It may have changed now, but not that long ago I had struggles with formatting when opening the files on a different computer. It didn't matter if I was using .abw, .kwd, or .odt. The only way I have found to have a truly portable file is to use OOo with .odt. That works without problems even when going between Linux and Windows. |
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