Only two choices I can see here.
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| helios Aug 10, 2007 8:05 AM EDT |
"we haven't seen significant demand for Linux applications on the desktop or for desktop virtualization on top of Linux." He is a liar or he does not know how to do his job. A job btw that might seem to include what the Techno-Geek is using to get his job done. In my line of work, THE ONLY way we run ANY WINDAZED system is in the friendly confines of Linux VM. but flip it over the way he is talking about and you get this question: Are you aware of the people that are abandoning your "theft-ware" for open source apps? Oh, never mind...refer to choice two. h |
| softwarejanitor Aug 10, 2007 9:28 AM EDT |
Well, "liar" may be a bit too strong. Chances are Microsoft's definition of "significant demand" is not the same as ours. They might not even consider the Mac marketplace "significant" given their market share. |
| helios Aug 10, 2007 10:35 AM EDT |
No! You will not be given the same benefit of the doubt,...not even from your own community. Trust me. If you Knowingly say something that is untrue, you have told a lie. If you tell a lie, you can in all fairness and accuracy be called a liar. Pitch political correctness in the trash heap. It does nothing but waste time, mislead people and teach out young that competition is a bad thing. It is also a fairly good way to measure moral cowardice....not always but fairly. When our kids hit "the real world" and find out they must compete...all that semantic softening they were taught does nothing but show a scar where a paycheck should be. "we haven't seen significant demand for Linux applications on the desktop or for desktop virtualization on top of Linux." Funny, Bill Hilf recently said just the opposite. I suppose Hilf isn't included in "The We" crowd at MS. h |
| seramji Aug 13, 2007 12:57 PM EDT |
Helios: As softwarejanitor says, we measure "significant" differently in the desktop area than we do in servers. There are roughly 1 billion Windows desktops currently in operation. As I acknowledged in my talk, I do hear a lot of requests for this from Linux developers, but very few from enterprise customers (CIOs, CTOs, business users) or consumers (small business owners, Office users, etc.). I hear more requests for Windows desktop virtualization on the Mac than Linux (by an order of magnitude). Linux desktop users tend to be happy with their environment (especially with the recent improvements in Beryl) and run Windows apps using WINE. We do see significant requests for Windows/Linux server interoperability and virtualization (both ways - Windows on Linux and Linux on Windows) in our enterprise customer base. Bill Hilf is my direct manager, so we are on the same page. I'd be interested to see what you read that led you to believe that he sees things differently. Cheers, Sam Ramji Director, Open Source Software Lab Microsoft Corporation |
| jdixon Aug 13, 2007 1:58 PM EDT |
> There are roughly 1 billion Windows desktops currently in operation. Curiosity demands that I ask: Does that include the pirated copies and Windows 95/98/Me, which are no longer supported, but still in use? Or is that only licensed copies of currently supported versions (2000, XP, and Vista). > I hear more requests for Windows desktop virtualization on the Mac than Linux... Well duh. Mac users aren't adverse to spending significant sums of money, or they wouldn't be using a Mac in the first place. Linux users are more frugal. It's only recently, with the free release of VMware Player/Server and the maturation of Xen, that desktop virtualization has been remotely affordable for most Linux desktop users. Most of the demand that's been there has probably been from businesses which have largely standardized on Linux for the desktop. They'll run VMware and pick up the copies of Windows they need at the local Walmart. You'll never see the demand, as it's beneath your radar. |
| tracyanne Aug 13, 2007 2:04 PM EDT |
@seramji: So when are we going to see Microsoft actually interoperate with the rest of the world, do it honestly, and either use open protocols, or, release the protocols for their proprietary formats in such a way that there are no legal encumbrances, that stop other people from using those protocols freely, and developing applications that use those protocols freely? In other words, when is Microsoft going to deal honestly with the rest of the world? While you are here. The reason I stopped using MS windows is because I got tired of Viruses, I gon old Pt tired of having to buy additional software to make my computer safe (with Linux I don't have to do that, I don't even have to, install extra Free software to do that), and Vista doesn't even come close to fixing that problem. I also got tired, and because I am forced to continue using Windows at work, I continue to be frustrated by an operating system that changes it's performance from that of a 3.2 Gig Hz P4 with 2 Gig of RAM to that of a P3 350 with 128 Meg of Ram during the course of the day, that requires constant reboots (with the necessity to save my work and close the application) otherwise it will simply reboot itself, and I will loose however many hundred lines of code of just written since the last reboot. In comparison I can run dozens of applications concurrently on my Linux desktops with half the RAM the windows machine has, I can run it 24/7 and not have it slow down or need to reboot, and I DON"T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT VIRUSes. My File/Print/Domain server has been running 24/7 fro the last 3 months, before that it was running 24/7 for 12 months, it runs Linux, the reason it was rebooted 3 months ago was because I upgraded to Mandriva 2007.1, I don't expect it to need a reboot until I upgrade to 2008.1 next year. The Machine is an old P3 500. In comparison my boss has to reboot his Windows servers at least once a week, and the server he uses to run his client's business applications from requires rebooting on a regular basis, and if he didn't have the very latest hardware the damn thing wouldn't run at all. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 13, 2007 2:16 PM EDT |
Quoting:In comparison my boss has to reboot his Windows servers at least once a week. A certain large company I'm familliar with has a policy of automatically rebooting every Windows server every weekend, just to avoid problems during the week. I'm talking about thousands of servers. Go figure O_o |
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