He may be right, unfortunately
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Libervis Sep 26, 2007 1:54 PM EDT |
If nothing than because of my experiences with the migration-assistant in Ubuntu I think he may very well be right about what he's saying. I don't find Ubuntu as disappointing overall, but still if some things aren't stable enough then perhaps it's better to hold it off then push it into the release. Migration-assistant didn't work properly from the very beginning. It was a known bug. Of course, it wasn't fixed in the whole running time of Feisty and something tells me that they were actually aware of it even before it got out. So why is it in? Just to be able to brag about it.. well it's a double edged sword. Those who had migration-assistant stop their installations at 99% of completion had only one recourse, which is not something a new user would like to do. You have to run "ubiquity --no-migration-assistant" from the console to disable the feature and then rerun the install from the beginning. About Network Manager, it's actually a GNOME thing AFAIK, and I don't use wifi, but it wasn't particularly useful for setting up my ADSL. I had to use pppoeconf in console, but anyway, not a very big problem for me. So.. let this be just some well meaning criticism. |
| tuxchick Sep 26, 2007 2:58 PM EDT |
I am fainting. Please someone catch me- Hartley is making sense. *checks self for fever* I've kept Kubuntu on my main workstation out of inertia, but it really is a big fat pain in so many ways, which Mr. Hartley aptly summed-up as "half-baked." But it's gone from all my test desktops systems; now I'm trying PCLinuxOS and Sabayon. (Don't tell the PCLOS groupies, but I am liking it.) LTS means security fixes only- no application updates, which means broken buggy apps stay on as broken buggy apps. I've seen few helpful responses to bug reports, and a lot of stupid bugs that never get fixed. A common one is files that get a future date stamp on a clean, new installation, which causes all sorts of problems, like sudo doesn't work: [url=https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ source/sudo/ bug/43233]https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ source/sudo/ bug/43233[/url] It never got assigned or fixed. A related bug is one of the font packages in Feisty does the same thing- the font files, on a clean new installation, are given timestamps in the future. For some reason this horks the system so you can't install or remove packages, or update the system, until enough time passes that the file dates are not in the future anymore. Which also was reported multiple times, and ignored multiple times. Canonical also has a terrible track record in the treatment of women in the community. There is all kinds of Ubuntu porn (there is a reason for this I can't say without being a gossip), and anyone who complains about being treated poorly gets the brush-off. There is even an official, salaried Community Manager who makes sure that nothing ever improves. I can appreciate the inroads and progress Canonical has made in popularizing Ubuntu and Linux, but for my own self, bleh. I'm glad there are other good choices. |
| ColonelPanik Sep 26, 2007 3:57 PM EDT |
Just hold on there tuxchick, leave Ubuntu? Never. For two years I have been beating
my head against the Ubuntu wall. It has been the best (easy to install and use) we have
found. My wife and the COE of this house has been with Ubuntu for a year +, she gets
her work done with it. But, last night after returning home from a quick trip, dead tired, I DLed PCLinuxOS because none of the Ubuntu distros would install on my lappy. Fried a platter and booted into the Live CD, it gave me some on-screen prompts for setting up the WiFi. And it worked, all of my knowledge of ndiswrapper and such is now usless. Live CD is one thing, but install...? No problem, none. WiFi? It didn't even ask those few questions I had on the Live CD, and it worked. Everything worked, I hate PCLinuxOS. Now to get GNOME working and I will be one happy camper. |
| wjl Sep 26, 2007 4:27 PM EDT |
My bro runs 6.06 LTS and had all kind of weird stuff, like Enigmail being broken and such. I tried to talk him into trying Debian, but he had work to do, so he stayed with what he had. My son is at Kubuntu Feisty and a bit more adventurous - he doesn't complain at all. However, here in da house it is Debian, and it will stay that way. If my wife cannot figure out things (most times she is pretty good in that, and she's amazing me with her KDE sometimes), she can still ask her old sysadmin ;-) The bottom line? Dunno. I installed Debian for a newbie once, and never had complaints. Ubuntu is a different kind of beast, and since I'm not really using it, giving advice can be hard... |
| dinotrac Sep 26, 2007 5:13 PM EDT |
TC - Aye,. matey. I feel your pain. We have one kubuntu desktop that is simply waiting for me to decide whether I'll return it to SuSE (like my own workstation) or over to something else. Also, my Ubuntu mythtv frontend is down for hardware replacement. The comments about wireless hit home, because I use wireless to communicate with the back end and Ubuntu has not been my wireless friend. The thing that really got my goat, though, was needing to set up SSL on an apache server only to find all of the Ubuntu-specific how-tos were wrong because the referenced a script that did wonderful things -- but had been deleted at some point in the apache maintenance stream and never returned. Sigh. |
| pat Sep 26, 2007 5:31 PM EDT |
I've got some cheese for all you'all. I've been fighting postgresql 8.1 install on Debian. When all else fails, use the source...or Gentoo my favorite. I will never have anything that came out of the mandrake swamp in my house ever... |
| tuxchick Sep 26, 2007 9:51 PM EDT |
heh dino, never a dull moment. Perty on the outside, but don't look under the hood unless you have a strong stomach. Really, the buntus have a lot going for them-- I just wish they would get serious about quality control. They talk about it, but can't quite get around to doing it. |
| jacog Sep 27, 2007 12:11 AM EDT |
Yup, Marc Shnottlewart made an interesting comment about KDE once and that he has something against their unpredictable release schedule. Personally I prefer waiting an extra month or two for a release to be late rather than having the actual release being on time and sub-standard. As a web developer I have been in many situations where the suits force one to do a project in an unrealistic amount of time, and then the end result is poorly tested and very likely to break. Usually because they made that unrealistic promise to their clients and lack the guts to go tell them it can't be delivered as promised. Is this starting to sound like a rant? Anyhoo... I am tempted to boycott Ubuntu for a little while... in good spirit, I don't hate it, I just insist it must be better. |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 27, 2007 12:36 AM EDT |
Quoting:Personally I prefer waiting an extra month or two for a release to be late rather than having the actual release being on time and sub-standard. Are you leveraging that comment against Ubuntu or against GNOME? I might agree about Ubuntu not being up to snuff, but GNOME works differently. Quoting:I have been in many situations where the suits force one to do a project in an unrealistic amount of time, and then the end result is poorly tested and very likely to break. GNOME does not set certain goals to be met at the end of the 6 month cycle. They release whatever is stable. * Stable * On-time * Feature-complete Pick two. Ubuntu chooses on-time & feature-complete. GNOME chooses stable & on-time. KDE chooses stable & feature-complete. |
| jacog Sep 27, 2007 12:53 AM EDT |
> Are you leveraging that comment against Ubuntu or against GNOME? I might agree about Ubuntu not being up to snuff, but GNOME works differently. Ubuntu and their clockwork release cycle. |
| dinotrac Sep 27, 2007 4:16 AM EDT |
>Ubuntu and their clockwork release cycle. There is nothing wrong with a predictable release cycle, especially when you are trying to bring different things together. There will never be a time when everything is "ready". However - if you set a predictable release cycle, you have to be willing to back off things that aren't ready. |
| jacog Sep 27, 2007 4:34 AM EDT |
Well, if you have a list of deliverables for a release... ie, release 7 WILL have 8 apples, 7 oranges, 2 bananas, and one pear, and you WILL have it on 12 November, but you end up releasing with 4 good apples, 4 apples half-baked into an apple pie, sour orange juice, 2 bananas that don't work unless they are accompanied by a pear, and no pear... then perhaps it's time to hang back till you can at least meet the deliverables. |
| dinotrac Sep 27, 2007 6:27 AM EDT |
jacog - We will never have a perfect world, but schedules matter to many people for many reasons. Trying real hard to meet one is a good thing. Putting out crap is a bad thing. Best thing is to make schedules that can be met and adjust as needed. |
| tuxchick Sep 27, 2007 8:12 AM EDT |
thanks jacog, I just totally lost my appetite :) |
| jacog Sep 27, 2007 8:35 AM EDT |
Agreed dino, make release schedules that can be reasonably met. |
| dinotrac Sep 27, 2007 11:03 AM EDT |
>Agreed dino, make release schedules that can be reasonably met. Yeah. Somewhere along the line, project managers ( a title I hate with passion) seem to have decided that the fact that reasonable schedules can fall behind is cause to forget trying to make reasonable schedules. |
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