ms exchange alternatives
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| herzeleid Oct 23, 2007 11:19 AM EDT |
I know, this is a tired question, but I'm throwing this question out to the IT gurus here, having realized that in trying to displace ms exchange, a key point is the shared calendars. You say email, and Unix users think smtp, pop, imap and webmail, but pee cee users think "shared calendars" - misnomer it may be, but I've got to live with it. There are a couple of approaches that I can think of - The first approach would be to simply install a linux-based ms exchange clone. There are huge commercial apps like scalix (too monolithic for my taste), and other choices like zimbra or openexchange. My experience so far with these sorts of products is that the commercial versions are priced so as to make them impractical for small business, and the "free" versions are either lacking functionality or are exceedingly difficult to install and get running. Has anybody here had any experience with the scalix, open exchange or zimbra? The other approach would be to install the one missing piece, the calendar server, and use that along with the existing mail system of choice. This seems to be an area of some OSS interest and activity, but nothing as yet appears production quality. If there were one which was ready for prime time, it would be a lightweight alternative to a full-blown ms exchange clone, which would be just right for some shops. So, does anybody here have any experience with any OSS calendar server? |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 23, 2007 11:28 AM EDT |
Citadel? citadel.org. You can install it on a base Red Hat server in just a few minutes. SugarCRM? It has an email interface that can be connected to POP, etc, and all of the contacts right there, and a shared calendar...and chat, I think. Not sure about that. It's a web interface and I think an Outlook connector is available. Both are GPL3. |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 23, 2007 11:29 AM EDT |
From the screenshots on the website, Citadel also allows Kontact to connect quite beautifully to all of the groupware features, using GroupDAV. Cool stuff. |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 23, 2007 11:33 AM EDT |
And since I'm blabbering off...if you're happy with email out on the web, I use Network Solutions for my family and it absolutely rocks. You can access email, contacts, calendar and all of that stuff from anywhere anytime. Much better than Exchange, if for no other reason than it's located on servers that are redundant and never down. The default storage is 500mb for each user, so it really depends on the usage. I think it's less than $20 for 100 emails. |
| techiem2 Oct 23, 2007 11:50 AM EDT |
We use the Horde Framework for our email setup here at the college. We have it setup with a shared address book of students and a shared address book of staff (you can also share your own address books). It's also easy to setup shared calendars and define permissions for them. PM me if you want an account on my private install to look at/play in (though I don't have a system wide shared address book setup on mine). |
| NoDough Oct 23, 2007 12:50 PM EDT |
I setup a Zimbra server for evaluation purposes. From the time I started to the time I had a working server was about 2 hours. Not bad. This is long time Microsoft shop, so it's a hard sell for me. However, my boss was very impressed by Zimbra's interface goodies and its professional look. He is also very impressed that Yahoo! has taken such a shine to it. If we end up replacing our Exchange server here (which is a long shot) I strongly suspect that Zimbra will be the replacement. |
| herzeleid Oct 23, 2007 1:20 PM EDT |
Thanks all for the flood of answers folks - I'll look into these to determine viability. Quoting: NoDough: I setup a Zimbra server for evaluation purposes. From the time I started to the time I had a working server was about 2 hours. Not bad.Just curious about that one, what platform/distro did you install on? How long ago? When I looked at the zimbra support forums there seemed to be a lot of folks struggling... |
| NoDough Oct 23, 2007 1:50 PM EDT |
Quoting:Just curious about that one, what platform/distro did you install on? How long ago? When I looked at the zimbra support forums there seemed to be a lot of folks struggling...I installed to the latest stable x86 Debian. I remember that the docs on Zimbra's home site were geared toward Red Hat, and I found a guide somewhere for a Debian install. Wish I could remember where. This was between two and three months ago. |
| Sander_Marechal Oct 23, 2007 2:13 PM EDT |
herzeleid: You forgot the most important piece of information. Can you force a change of client? If you're looking for a solution that 'll work with Outlook then you're always going to have problems and/or be stuck with pay-for plugins like Openxchange has. If you can force a change of clients, I'd go for a CalDAV server (just an Apache WebDAV serving iCal files for a few twists) and plain IMAP for e-mail. The question then reduces to "What good iCal client are out there?" I've been testing the Lightning calendar plugin for Thunderbird. It looks and works great but it's not suitable for production use yet (importing events via e-mail has timezone problems). It works for me though. |
| devnet Oct 23, 2007 2:14 PM EDT |
We use Zimbra at rPath as a drop in replacement for Exchange. Works well across the board. This is from someone coming from nothing BUT exchange *(including administration of said exchange servers). If you'd like to check out the Zimbra server, download their VMWare image...you'll have a drop in replacement in no time...and BTW, you'll be using technology made by rPath when you do ;) |
| herzeleid Oct 23, 2007 4:04 PM EDT |
I've got a SLES 10 test box, I'm installing zimbra now to check it out... |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 23, 2007 4:16 PM EDT |
I forgot about Merak Mail Server, which runs on Linux or Windows. Of course, it's not free nor is it Free, but it beats the devil out of Exchange. I am testing out Zimbra, Citadel and Merak Linux on some VMs as we speak...well, as we write...well, I'm configuring the base VM. :) Almost done. |
| herzeleid Oct 23, 2007 4:26 PM EDT |
ah, I've downloaded merak too, and was looking at kerio - saw them at linuxworld. |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 23, 2007 4:35 PM EDT |
I haven't used Merak on Linux (yet), but I have a large client (worldwide client worth many millions...not a huge player, perhaps, but hardly a small business) who uses the Windows version and it's really nice. The web interface (IceWarp) is great. How many users do you have? |
| herzeleid Oct 23, 2007 4:41 PM EDT |
> How many users do you have? Well that's a tricky question - I'm doing this in large part for the sake of potential future clients. I feel that if I can come up with a good ms exchange substitute that I am confident about, I can keep my little consulting business going well. Of my current clients, The user base numbers are approximately as follows. (Perhaps in some of them I can force a change of mail client, but others definitely not) 5 20 50 200 14000 |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 23, 2007 4:57 PM EDT |
I guess the next question is what they do...we have law firms of less then 20 people who push the envelope of Exchange's 70ish GB database limit, and client three times that size that don't even push 2 gigs. I am not certain of Merak's database limits. Citadel's is about 256TB, so it's pretty well impossible to grow larger than that. I'd feel confident with Merak on anything but the 14000...but that's because I've never dealt with that many clients. Per MS recommendations, that would be at least 3 Exchange servers, however, so if you split Merak or whatever up over that many it'd be far easier to deal with. When you work in the price difference at 14000 users...Merak is $6500 for unlimited users on the full suite, MS is gonna run...well, at $50 a license (a deal) it comes to $700,000. Plus Server 2003 costs. You can even run Merak on Linux, and you could use Unbreakable Linux (free for just updates) from Oracle, a name they trust. It has its merits. Then you have to consider that you're only gonna get your hands on Exchange 2007 (the license may or may not still be backwards compatible) which requires a 64 OS...man, Merak is looking good! As is Citadel, as is Zimbra...and no wonder MS is worth billions!! |
| tuxchick Oct 23, 2007 5:18 PM EDT |
Half-starved carrier pigeons outperform MS Exchange, sheesh. How can anything other than mass brainwashing explain why so many businesses use it? |
| rijelkentaurus Oct 23, 2007 5:29 PM EDT |
Businesses depend on people like you, me and herzeleid to steer them to a good choice...while I can't recommend something other than Exchange fast enough (I even tell people to check out Google Apps!), my work's owner is committed to Exchange...as expensive as it is, he gets a slice of that pie, a slice of the hardware money, and the continued service of keeping that hunk of garbage running! Greed keeps the consultants committed to Exchange, and the reliance on consultants keeps businesses stuck to it. It ain't because of the great performance...and even if it was the Gold Standard of mail servers, it's not worth that kind of money! |
| IGnatiusTFoobar Aug 31, 2008 11:45 PM EDT |
If you need the exact feature set of Exchange, you probably should be running Exchange. If you want true open source collaboration, go with Citadel or Kolab or Horde. Zimbra and Scalix only open source feature-limited versions of their commercial products. |
| herzeleid Sep 01, 2008 12:18 AM EDT |
Quoting:If you need the exact feature set of Exchange, you probably should be running Exchange.Sorry, that isn't going to happen. But I've looked at a number of fairly functional exchange equivalents which run on linux. It doesn't have to be FOSS, and I don't mind the price if there is some sort of "try before buy" option. Now that Cisco has snapped up postpath I'm somewhat interested again. It would have been the best of the options I looked at, but for the silly ms "active directory" requirement. Hopefully under Cisco's oversight that nasty little problem can be fixed, so that it just requires an ldap server, not specifically ad. |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 01, 2008 5:15 AM EDT |
@herzeleid: Give Zarafa a spin. It's about $30 per user and runs on Linux. There's a 30 day free trial : http://www.zarafa.com/ |
| herzeleid Sep 01, 2008 3:43 PM EDT |
@sander - Thanks, I'll follow up on that trail and see where it leads... edit: hmm, it seems linux users are locked out on the client side. What I don't want to do is put roadblocks in the way of migrating desktops to linux, or kill off current linux users. |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 01, 2008 4:28 PM EDT |
Quoting:it seems linux users are locked out on the client side No. Their "Zarafa Client" is just something to make Outlook play nice. You can use any POP, IMAP and iCal capable software that you want. I've been using Icedove and Iceowl (Debian's Thunderbird and Lightning) quite succesfully with Zarafa. |
| herzeleid Sep 01, 2008 5:17 PM EDT |
Quoting:No. Their "Zarafa Client" is just something to make Outlook play nice. You can use any POP, IMAP and iCal capable software that you want. I've been using Icedove and Iceowl (Debian's Thunderbird and Lightning) quite succesfully with Zarafa.OK, thanks for the clarification - I might have thrown the baby out with the bath water, based on their web page listing the windows client side requirement. I'll look at it a bit closer. |
| techiem2 Sep 01, 2008 6:50 PM EDT |
We've been using Horde for a while now at the college and have been happy overall. (And I use it at home) I don't know if anyone uses the collaboration features much, but we do have it setup with a global address book of students and a global address book of faculty/staff. Of course, if you don't want to be using a webmail based system, it's not for you. |
| tracyanne Sep 01, 2008 6:59 PM EDT |
http://forums.zarafa.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=879 Hi all, we have succesfully integrated integrated Zarafa with Mandriva Directory Server running on Debian etch 4. |
| herzeleid Sep 01, 2008 7:35 PM EDT |
> we have succesfully integrated integrated Zarafa with Mandriva Directory Server running on Debian etch 4. This thread grows more interesting as it continues - what relation does mandriva directory server have to fedora directory server? |
| tracyanne Sep 01, 2008 8:12 PM EDT |
Don't know, they are probably wrappers around ldap |
| phsolide Sep 02, 2008 12:05 PM EDT |
There is no alternative to Exchange, particularly in the area of "convincing" C-level folks to use it. A few rounds of bikini golf with hot, 20-somethings sales "staffers" in Bermuda goes a really long way towards making the EXACT feature set of Exchange into a requirement. |
| tuxchick Sep 02, 2008 12:09 PM EDT |
Quoting: A few rounds of bikini golf with hot, 20-somethings sales "staffers" in Bermuda goes a really long way towards making the EXACT feature set of Exchange into a requirement. So that's the secret to selling a feature set that's mostly an obese, wheezing, unreliable malware-magnet for top dollar. I guess that is a sort of genius. |
| jdixon Sep 02, 2008 1:07 PM EDT |
> A few rounds of bikini golf with hot, 20-somethings sales "staffers" in Bermuda goes a really long way towards making the EXACT feature set of Exchange into a requirement. C level folks are obviously of lower quality than they used to be then. It used to take some after hours "socializing" with those sales staffers to have that effect. |
| zlatan24 Oct 30, 2010 11:31 AM EDT |
I like working with MS Exchange data. But once I had quite complicated problem, which to my good fortune made up my mind for short time. On my opinion it probably could be suitable for this situation - http://www.exchangedisasterrecoverytool.com |
| herzeleid Oct 30, 2010 12:57 PM EDT |
Oh dear, necroposting spammers? |
| gus3 Oct 30, 2010 1:11 PM EDT |
The thread probably popped up on an automated search, and voila! |
| caitlyn Oct 30, 2010 5:05 PM EDT |
Yep. I get SPAM on ancient posts on a website I help maintain frequently. Two years old is mild. I've seen it on five year old stuff. |
| tracyanne Oct 30, 2010 6:44 PM EDT |
That's quite interesting, the post is obviously auto generated, just read the stilted language, and indeed, the non nonsensical second sentence. The robot has trolled though the post looking for key words and found several references to "Exchange". |
| tuxchick Oct 30, 2010 9:05 PM EDT |
"Necroposting spammers." Awesome phrase. If only we could make them composting spammers. |
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