Prove Linus wrong!
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| jezuch Feb 05, 2008 2:14 AM EDT |
Quoting:"[T]he desktop is also the thing where people get really upset if something changes, so it’s really hard to enter the desktop market because people are used to whatever they used before, mostly Windows. And if you act differently from Windows, even if you act in some ways better, it doesn’t matter; better is worse if it’s different." I think some local folks here can prove Linus wrong on this one ;) |
| tracyanne Feb 05, 2008 4:22 AM EDT |
The feedback I got from two recent new Linux users is: It seems more stable. It isn't a that difficult to learn, it's mostly the same. (the bit she finds difficult is locating the directory where Crossover stores the files for her Windows application that she uses - I set up a Link to the directory and put it on the desktop) I'm really scared of my new computer... No seriously I really like it, it's got so many things the other one didn't have. How can I have that cube thing like you've got? |
| Abe Feb 05, 2008 7:05 AM EDT |
Quoting:I think some local folks here can prove Linus wrong on this one ;)Give Linus the benefit of the doubt, he might have been referring to people's perception. |
| Bob_Robertson Feb 05, 2008 7:41 AM EDT |
> he might have been referring to people's perception. That's exactly what he was talking about. Listen to the MP3, it's well worth the time. What he says is, when the "desktop" was young, people weren't in a rut yet. But it's been about 15 years with "The Windows Way", and people are so used to it now that any change, even if it's a change for the better, is scary. People don't like change. Even Jefferson wrote about that in the Declaration of Independence. |
| gus3 Feb 05, 2008 8:08 AM EDT |
Quoting:But it's been about 15 years with "The Windows Way", and people are so used to it now that any change, even if it's a change for the better, is scary.That point is self-defeating. "The Windows Way" has suffered so many little "changes", and more than a few big changes, that a person jumping off Windows 3.1 is barely able to use Windows XP or Vista. And at each turn, the claim from M$ was "we know better now." At least with Linux and its myriad desktop choices, the old versions are available, nobody is forcing upgrades, and the licensing is reasonably well-understood. |
| Bob_Robertson Feb 05, 2008 8:21 AM EDT |
> a person jumping off Windows 3.1 is barely able to use Windows XP or Vista. And at each turn, the claim from M$ was "we know better now." The discussion is not about reality, it's about perception. Microsoft has capitalized on the perception of Windows stability (sic) with great effect. |
| tracyanne Feb 05, 2008 11:50 AM EDT |
Quoting:The discussion is not about reality, it's about perception. That perception can be easily overcome. Another question people ask me is "Why doesn't anyone tell you about this?" My response is "I just did." In my experience, for the most part, it's women who are most amenable to trying Linux and changing. But that question, is one that needs to be answered better. Linux needs to be promoted better. |
| jdixon Feb 05, 2008 12:11 PM EDT |
> In my experience, for the most part, it's women who are most amenable to trying Linux and changing. Tracyanne, I expect that's just a matter of someone trusting someone else of their own gender more than they do the opposing gender. Simply put, women are more open to new ideas from other women then they are from men. The same is probably true for men. |
| Bob_Robertson Feb 05, 2008 12:31 PM EDT |
> The same is probably true for men. Very much so. I'm far more open about trying new things with a woman than with a man. |
| dinotrac Feb 05, 2008 12:52 PM EDT |
Sorry, but the discussion is also about reality, although the reality has more to do with apps than Linux, and more to do with being able to buy hardware without looking up the chipset first. The desktop space -- as opposed to any individual user's desktop -- is much, much harder than the server room. There are SOOOOOO many flavors and SOOOOO many different priorities. |
| Bob_Robertson Feb 05, 2008 1:25 PM EDT |
> - is much, much harder than the server room. Which Torvalds goes in to as well. The comment I found most interesting: "I'm most interested in the desktop, that's what I wrote Linux for in the first place. I've never had a Linux server." {paraphrased from memory} |
| hkwint Feb 05, 2008 1:28 PM EDT |
Quoting:Sorry, but the discussion is also about reality AFAIK as I know, new Linux users unaware of the fact they are using it don't complain, just like the people using Firefox without knowing it (someone has to change the Fox-icon to the blue E though). Probably a lot of Eee users are unaware of the fact they use Linux. They don't have to make a choice out of flavours or priorities either. So Linux on the desktop will be a success as long as its pre-installed, is what I'm trying to say. I didn't read reports from French or Spanish users working for government complaining about their Linux desktop. Same for OLPC users. Probably people complained about MS-DOS either (I'm not sure). The only OS which came pre-installed and about which people complained is probably Vista. In a strange way, this leads me to the conclusion Linux on the desktop will be a success as long as people are forced to use it. It would be a success if they had chosen it too, but they don't choose it - yet. |
| rijelkentaurus Feb 05, 2008 1:34 PM EDT |
Quoting: The only OS which came pre-installed and about which people complained is probably Vista. ?? I complained loudly about ME, I had to reinstall the blasted OS within 2 hours, and I wasn't even online at the time! |
| techiem2 Feb 05, 2008 5:35 PM EDT |
You mean http://www.eatliver.com/img/2005/436.jpg ? :) |
| hkwint Feb 07, 2008 8:42 AM EDT |
I was thinking about ME, though I didn't know it came pre-installed back then. What a nightmare that must have been! |
| gus3 Feb 07, 2008 9:14 AM EDT |
WinME was proof that M$ is a monopoly. No truly competitive company would dream of putting out such a steaming pile. |
| dinotrac Feb 07, 2008 11:25 AM EDT |
Hans -- People using Linux are likely to be happy with it. People who can't get the software they want or use the hardware they want are unlikely to use Linux. That's not Linux's fault, but it is a fact of life. |
| hkwint Feb 07, 2008 1:54 PM EDT |
Quoting:People who can't get the software they want or use the hardware they want are unlikely to use Linux. Nonetheless, the opposite is also tru: People who can't get the software they want or use the hardware they want are still likely to use Windows Vista. That's not a fact of life, but Microsofts (big-OEM-monopoly) fault. |
| dinotrac Feb 07, 2008 6:15 PM EDT |
> Nonetheless, the opposite is also tru: People who can't get the software they want or use the hardware they want are still likely to use Windows Vista That one makes no sense to me. Please explain. |
| azerthoth Feb 07, 2008 6:42 PM EDT |
Makes perfect sense to me. |
| Scott_Ruecker Feb 08, 2008 12:16 AM EDT |
Quoting:That point is self-defeating. "The Windows Way" has suffered so many little "changes", and more than a few big changes, that a person jumping off Windows 3.1 is barely able to use Windows XP or Vista. Quite true but the rut he speaks of is in the mind. Of course Windows 3.1 is as different as it gets from XP or Vista, but its still Windows. For example: Many Ford and Chevrolet vehicles are made in Japan or elsewhere and are completely different from the "old" Fords and Chevys of the past, but they still say Ford and Chevrolet on them. There are people who will still only buy Ford or Chevrolet brand vehicles for many inaccurate and antiquated reasons. People feel safe buying from the same place or company over and over again no matter what. "Its what I did last time", "I always go to the same place for.." and so on. Resistance to change is a consequence of the Human Brain and its need to recognize patterns in order to make sense of things. It is the wonderful dichotomy of Human existence that we toil in our attempts to change things back to the way they were. It doesn't make any sense, but it doesn't have too. Its Human Nature. :-) "Its still Windows.." even though we know its really not..the rut is in the mind. Quoting:But that question, is one that needs to be answered better. Linux needs to be promoted better. Yes, and someone around here tried that but.. it seemed that not everyone agreed on just how it should be done, if it should be done, and if so who should be in charge of it. And without a plan and someone in charge of implementing that plan, no promotion will succeed. Ever. I still think that word of mouth and one-on-one interactions will see us to where we want FOSS to go. Then again they the only ways to promote it that we all seem agree on. |
| Abe Feb 08, 2008 8:49 AM EDT |
Quoting:Nonetheless, the opposite is also tru: People who can't get the software they want or use the hardware they want are still likely to use Windows Vista. Quoting:Makes perfect sense to me.You obviously didn't understand what Dino meant. I believe what Dino was saying is that, those who can't find the software or hardware they want, they will use Linux because it empowers and enables them to create their own. Microsoft is rigid with no flexibility. You guys assumed that Microsoft has all the software that would work on any hardware. The facts prove to the contrary. |
| hkwint Feb 09, 2008 3:52 AM EDT |
Quoting:> Nonetheless, the opposite is also tru: People who can't get the software they want or use the hardware they want are still likely to use Windows Vista Simple: Because they have no choice. |
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