Did this yesterday...
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Alcibiades Feb 06, 2008 10:07 PM EDT |
Guy had worked his way through three virus episodes, his home machine had slowed to a crawl yet again. He asked would I put Linux on it. He brought the base unit in to the office having backed up all the files he wanted to save. He didn't want to keep the XP install, so we put in Mandriva One 2008 together and wiped the disk. Then we downloaded a few other apps from the repository, partly so he'd know how. Made sure the card reader worked, internet worked. Changed the desktop a bit, partly to show him how. Put the apps he wanted in the task bar, again so he would know how. Set up OO to save where he wanted and in the right formats. Explained multiple desktops carefully. If you do this, people use them, but you have to explain how and why because it is unfamiliar. He took it home having to set up printing himself. Later in the evening I got an email saying that all was well and printing worked fine. We use Debian at home, but I like Mandriva for newcomers partly because of the control centre, partly because of the huge manual they have for the kde version. The difficulties of getting newcomers up to speed are greatly exaggerated. You do have to take the time to show them around, and you have to expect a few calls. But its nothing like the issue it was a few years ago. |
| tracyanne Feb 07, 2008 12:26 AM EDT |
Quoting:The difficulties of getting newcomers up to speed are greatly exaggerated. Very much so. Quoting:You do have to take the time to show them around, and you have to expect a few calls. I get far less than I expected. Quoting:But its nothing like the issue it was a few years ago. A few years ago when I was noob, I didn't have anyone to explain it to me. I'm glad I chose Mandriva (Mandrake at the time) back then, because of all the reasons you just gave for choosing it. |
| zenarcher Feb 07, 2008 1:57 AM EDT |
I agree completely with both of you and your experiences. I'm no Linux guru....I've used Fedora, OpenSuse and Mandriva over the past two or three years. Mandriva, in it's current state, is about as easy as it gets! Loads of available software, adding PLF as a third party source is super easy, wireless, Nvidia video cards and the works, just install effortlessly. Same with my HP printer. I've not found a more user friendly distribution. Likewise, I've installed Mandriva for many people who have become fed up with Windows and the associated problems. Those installs have covered a wide range of people, so far as age, computer experience, etc. I've had very little problems with any of them and none have asked to return to using Windows. The majority of questions has come down to people learning the names of Linux applications comparable to a Windows application they formerly used. Many think Internet Explorer IS the Internet, or Outlook Express IS email. I'll usually give them some little application conversion list to help. Likewise, I sometimes find a bit of confusion when they go to use their digital camera or some other hardware and are convinced it won't work, until they install the Windows driver disk which came with the hardware. You tell them to forget the disk....just plug the camera in and see what happens. They are amazed and happy with the result! After all, the majority of those users would not install and configure Windows themselves, so Linux isn't much different for them. Once Linux is installed and configured...and they are given a few pointers as to how to customize basics, such as wallpaper, screensavers, etc., they are very happy with the switch! |
| dinotrac Feb 07, 2008 5:57 AM EDT |
The problems nowadays are far less with ease of use and more of applications and hardware. Many many casual users can easily and happily use Linux. |
| ColonelPanik Feb 07, 2008 7:08 AM EDT |
Quote: "The difficulties of getting newcomers up to speed are greatly exaggerated." But never underestimate the difficulties that the old timers pose. |
| number6x Feb 07, 2008 7:10 AM EDT |
The market showed us that Windows 3.1 was 'good enough' for the casual desktop and home user as well as the corporate desktop where support was available. I don't want you to think about whether or not you like Windows 3.1, or how you feel about Windows 3.1. Just consider that it was successful in the market place. It made several billionaires and most users figured out how to get things done with it. Most every Linux distro is easier to install, use and maintain than Windows 3.1. Linux distros also ship with many more applications than Windows 3.1 did. The market is different than in 1991, but Linux today has what the market now demands. Security Stability Speed Simplicity Savings Software!, Software!, Software! Linux is more than adequate for everyday use. The only Software people complain about missing is Adobe Photoshop. How many home users have copies of adobe Photoshop? If my statements sound underwhelming, its just because I am thinking about being acceptable in the market place, not being the absolute best. (Consider the McDonald's hamburger. It is clearly the market leader in hamburgers sales. I don't think that anyone would consider a McDonald's hamburger the best burger in the world in terms of taste, but in terms of bringing a product to market and selling it, it is number 1.) |
| ColonelPanik Feb 07, 2008 7:15 AM EDT |
Quote: "...in terms of bringing a product to market and selling it, it is number 1.)" Coke Cola sell more "units" than any other product. |
| number6x Feb 07, 2008 7:22 AM EDT |
Yeah, but Coca Cola tastes good too! McDonald' hamburgers are bland and flavorless, and yet are the #1 selling burger. I thought the analogy to Windows was more apropos. |
| dinotrac Feb 07, 2008 7:22 AM EDT |
>The only Software people complain about missing is Adobe Photoshop. How many home users have copies of adobe Photoshop? Not remotely true. Lots and lots of software, from specialized business apps to stuff that hobbyists use to Quickbooks and tax software. |
| number6x Feb 07, 2008 9:50 AM EDT |
dino, How about specialized apps available on Linux but not on Windows? I figure they wash out. Check out scientific and engineering fields. There are apps for radio astronomy and nuclear physics that only exist on Linux and Unix. |
| tracyanne Feb 07, 2008 12:15 PM EDT |
Quoting:Yeah, but Coca Cola tastes good too! We contribute to the sales of Coca Cola, we use it to clean our toilets. It does a damn good job too. I highly recommend it.... drink it, not on your nellie, I wouldn't put anything that does that to the scum that builds in the toilet bowl anywhere near my mouth. |
| hkwint Feb 07, 2008 1:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:Check out scientific and engineering fields. I believe I'm a product engineer these days - at least that's what the doorplate of the entrance where I work says. I consider myself as a technical drawer however, but you can say I work in the 'engineering field'. Sadly, a lot of popular drawing programs which used to run on UNIX don't run on UNIX anymore. There are alternatives, but they're so expensive I can't buy them to use at home. For example, Pro/Engineer, which I use daily at work nowadays, runs on Linux and UNIX, and so does CATIA - used by Boeing etc. However, the cheaper stuff 'amateur engineers' use, like AutoCAD, Inventor (which I find a great program by the way, even if made by AutoDesk) and SolidWorks only work on Windows these days. That's pretty sad to see. QCad is proprietary too, but at least it works on Linux. As of yet, I haven't seen cheap 3D drawing programs for Linux. For KDE, KAD and Kreative3D are about alpha/beta status these days, and limited functionality, mainly 2D. FreeCAD is not really what I'm looking for. BRL CAD - free software by the US government! - sounds really nice, but as its name implies it's made for Ballistic Research. CAD-tastrafy looked promising, I still have to check it out. http://pfrostie.freeservers.com/cad-tastrafy/ avoCADo looks splendid, but again it's alpha. GraphiteOne looks affordable, should check it out. gCAD3d is what 'everybody is looking for', but it looks it's only in German. No problem for me, but it is for 90%+ of the world I guess. Sadly, none of them uses the OpenCASCADE libraries, great open source 3D modeling libraries (it seems to me) with large company support, on which even more specialized custom-made "one company only" modeling programs are based. Yeah, it looks there are great alternatives, but it's sad those people don't work together, and I believe most of this tools are not supported by the distro's either. I wish I had more time, than I would try to test them all. As far as number-chrunching and symbolic math is concerned, I can confirm both MatLab and Maple (6) run very well on Linux. MatLab is pretty expensive though. Maple is doable. I tried free alternatives too, for example GNUPlot and a GPL symbolic math program, but they were rather limited. So, availability is not the biggest problem in the eng. field, like number6x suggest, but freeriding like with OpenOffice or GIMP is not quite possible in the field of engineering, as far as I'm concerned, and sadly some popular tools like AutoCAD aren't available on UNIX anymore. Yeah, today when Pro/E freaked out on me because I made a sketch which was too complex for it to handle and hung - though Pro/E is considered very stable - I missed the simplicity of AutoCAD. I also saw the people making the manuals using Adobe Framemaker, and wondered if there's anything like it in the UNIX world. Sure, we have LaTeX, but does it have user friendly GUI (with advanced features nonetheless) like Framemaker? I can't say, I didn't have the time to try Lyx yet, but I doubt it. So true, some rather specialized apps are missing on Linux. Some specialized apps are missing on Windows, but almost nobody needs that specialized apps only running on Linux. As far as I know nobody has a 300km diameter glass-fiber connected distributed radio telescope he or she wants to tie to a Windows box and do some radio astronomy, like LOFAR does for an example (that example is a bit familiar to me). I guess not much people need ballistic research tools on Windows either. A point can be made Linux-users don't need Photoshop and Framemaker. I believe that may well be true. Point is, they want it, just in the same way they 'want' Internet Explorer though Firefox gives them the same functionality. My biggest problem when I started using non-Windows was how the programs were called in the 'non-Windows world'. For example, if 'man' says edit file X but you don't know what command to use to start an editor, you're pretty lost. If you need to edit a text-file before you can install a package, the situation becomes worse. That's one of the biggest problems I believe when migrating, often not mentioned: People need to learn new program names too. Often they believe if Linux doesn't run Photoshop, this automatically means Linux doesn't have anything like Photoshop. For examlpe, I desperately tried to make Opera work on OpenBSD, because IE wasn't available (duh!) and Opera was what I used in Windows. When it - together with OpenOffice - failed to compile (I had no idea I had to update portage before trying to use ports back then, and the Opera downloads where my aged ports-tree pointed to were gone), I ditched OpenBSD and NetBSD. That wouldn't have been necessary if I was up to date with alternatives, but I wasn't. Yeah, lynx was nice, but I had problems using my MS Hotmail ;) Only when I started using FreeBSD and both Opera and OpenOffice finally compiled after more than 36h compiling from ports including several manual downloads, I was able to stop using Windows for more than 4 consecutive hours, and I was happy. Therefore, once again, I'd like to spread the word. The greatest 'Linux equivalents to Windows progams' I ever saw, even maintained recently, can be found here: http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html It's sad the website has this 'unattractive' interface, but it helped me in the past. Also, the top 100 Linux (Ubuntu) programs were a very interesting read, also because it was not made by a FSF crusader: http://www.emmaalvarez.com/2007/12/top-best-50-ubuntu-openso... Probably, if we made a nice database of those resources with some flashy animations or so and ran ads on sys-con, OSWeekly etc. like 'Great cheap Linux alternatives to Windows programs' a lot more people might consider migrating to non-Windows. |
| Bob_Robertson Feb 07, 2008 2:13 PM EDT |
Coca Cola has a huge quantity of Phosphoric Acid in it. That's the source of its power to clean, as well as dissolve your teeth and bones. How do you think it manages to hold 16 tablespoons of sugar in 12 ozs? Trying to cut the nastyness of the acid! |
| jezuch Feb 07, 2008 2:53 PM EDT |
Quoting:Yeah, but Coca Cola tastes good too! Coca Cola and taste in the same sentence? Whoa!! Well, ok, but only if you say that soap tastes good, too... |
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