not sure Barracuda is any kind of hero
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick Feb 11, 2008 1:25 PM EDT |
They're using ClamAV, but are they giving anything back to it? But they are fighting this stupidity, instead of caving in. Not that I held much esteem for them anyway, but Trend Micro was already on my dogdoo list for some shady crap they tried to pull on me, and then when all the big security vendors covered up the Sony rootkit, well, to hell with all of them. They're no more trustworthy than any random member of organized crime, as far as I'm concerned |
| herzeleid Feb 11, 2008 1:27 PM EDT |
In this fight I definitely side with barracuda, it's a no brainer. |
| rijelkentaurus Feb 11, 2008 1:29 PM EDT |
Quoting: They're no more trustworthy than any random member of organized crime, as far as I'm concerned That pretty much sums up all of the "anti-something" software out there, save for ClamAV. It's all about getting your green by using an atmosphere of fear. |
| herzeleid Feb 11, 2008 3:55 PM EDT |
Did anyone even read what the lawsuit is about? Trend micro claims to own the concept of using antivirus to scan at a gateway. Unless you pay trend micro, you must not filter viruses on any type of gateway (since that whole concept is their precious IP) but must install antivirus on each machine that needs it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to jail. There's a lot more at stake than barracuda networks, if trend micro wins this one. |
| tuxchick Feb 11, 2008 4:42 PM EDT |
herzeleid, you're right, and I'm glad that Barracuda Networks is fighting back. It's a bigger issue than a dispute between Barracuda and Trend Micro. But they're all still a bunch of untrustworthy goons. |
| thenixedreport Feb 11, 2008 5:05 PM EDT |
"They're using ClamAV, but are they giving anything back to it?" By standing up to Trend Micro, I would say so. |
| tracyanne Feb 11, 2008 5:14 PM EDT |
Quoting:"They're using ClamAV, but are they giving anything back to it?" I would agree. This won't be cheap, and simply paying Tend Micro, like MacAfee and others did, would have been far cheaper. They deserve respect and support. |
| vainrveenr Feb 11, 2008 5:58 PM EDT |
Wonder why PJ of Groklaw (http://www.groklaw.com) is not picking up on this story more than she already has? Relatively easy to find Groklaw news on SCO vs Novell and (MS)OOXML vs ODF. OTOH, the sole PJ piece easily found on the Trend suit against Barracuda is 'Barracuda Networks Asks For Help Finding Prior Art to Defend ClamAV' at http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080125135544713 Maybe as the Trend suit against Barracuda progresses and further details of this emerge, there will be more Groklaw pieces on this? |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 11, 2008 9:54 PM EDT |
Probably. PJ doesn't post a lot of editorial-style stories. Mostly she posts when actual lawsuit developments are made. New filings and all that. So don't expect a lot until the case really starts rolling. |
| tuxchick Feb 12, 2008 9:50 AM EDT |
I don't care for all the fanboi-bandwagoning. It's like sports or something- 'Barracuda good! We are on their team! Trend Micro bad! Their team sucks!' Has anyone exerted the slightest effort to investigate Barracuda's record as a FOSS citizen? No. I spent a few minutes cruising their Web site, and they claim to support a number of FOSS projects. There's no way to know how much support or how meaningful it is without digging deeper. They're standing up to Trend's stupid patent claim because they don't want to pay money for nothing. It has little, if anything, to do with being great friends of FOSS. A little critical thinking and research go a long way. Yes, I support them for standing up to Trend Micro, which I'm repeating for the sake of those who never read the threads, or forget them as soon as they read them. But I'm not adopting them as my Great FOSS Brethren without some evidence that they actually are good FOSS supporters. |
| herzeleid Feb 12, 2008 10:31 AM EDT |
> Yes, I support them for standing up to Trend Micro, which I'm repeating for the sake of those who never read the threads, or forget them as soon as they read them. But I'm not adopting them as my Great FOSS Brethren without some evidence that they actually are good FOSS supporters. tc - I prefer the FOSS mailguard to barracuda as an antispam product. It seems to do at least as good a job if not better than barracuda. We have an internal group here on barracuda. They are not happy with it, and want to switch to mailguard. I repeat, I support barracuda in this fight, but if anyone is looking for a really nice FOSS antispam solution, check out mailguard at http://www.maiamailguard.com |
| tracyanne Feb 12, 2008 12:09 PM EDT |
Quoting:They're standing up to Trend's stupid patent claim because they don't want to pay money for nothing. That's right TC, they are paying a lot more money to lawyers so they don't have to pay a smaller amount to Trend Micro. If you really want to know how much support Barracuda gives to the FOSS project they claim to support, ask the project leaders. In the meantime, given that this fight will be more expensive than paying up, and the fact that they have documented claims to support those FOSS projects, I'm prepared to accept that they are FOSS supporters. |
| tuxchick Feb 12, 2008 12:50 PM EDT |
tracyanne, you don't know that fighting this costs less than paying up, because you don't know what the costs are. Symantec and the others who are paying licenses to Trend Micro have been paying them for around ten years. You don't have evidence that Barracuda is the Big Friend of FOSS. They may be, or they may be merely exploiting a tenuous relationship between this lawsuit and FOSS. There is a big difference between supporting them on this particular issue, and believing that they're all wonderful and splendid FOSS citizens. |
| nanday Feb 12, 2008 6:02 PM EDT |
According to what Barracuda's CEO told me when I wrote my first story on the subject, the company cannot afford to pay what Trend Micro is demanding. He's tried to talk to Trend Micro executives, but is always referred back to the lawyers. In other words, Trend Micro appears to be using its patent as a way to stifle a competitor. This is another way in which Trend Micro is abusing the American patent system. - Bruce Byfield (nanday) |
| herzeleid Feb 12, 2008 6:11 PM EDT |
> You don't have evidence that Barracuda is the Big Friend of FOSS. There's no evidence that they aren't a friend either. The fact that the barracuda is just a compact linux box running spamassassin, clamav and other stuff would suggest that they are certainly not enemies. BTW I wasn't bashing barracuda earlier when I said that I prefer mailguard - for a shop with no IT skills, a barracuda is a nice easy drop-in appliance with low maintenance requirements, but since we do have the skills, we prefer the flexibility of mailguard. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 12, 2008 10:11 PM EDT |
Quoting:According to what Barracuda's CEO told me when I wrote my first story on the subject, the company cannot afford to pay what Trend Micro is demanding. Trend Micro must be demanding quite a lot then. Barracuda's annual revenue is estimated to exceed $100 million [1] so it's not like they're a small fish with little money. [1] http://www.computerworlduk.com/management/it-business/suppli... |
| tracyanne Feb 12, 2008 10:12 PM EDT |
Quoting:and believing that they're all wonderful and splendid FOSS citizens. Who ever said that? They do however appear to be FOSS supporters. Quoting:According to what Barracuda's CEO told me when I wrote my first story on the subject, the company cannot afford to pay what Trend Micro is demanding. According to Bruce Byfield it would be more expensive to pay, so I may be wrong. Most companies don't fight, because fighting is more expensive than paying. |
| thenixedreport Feb 12, 2008 11:31 PM EDT |
"I don't care for all the fanboi-bandwagoning." Forgive me for not understanding how to make quotes nice and red with the label "quoted." I'm more busy responding to what was stated earlier. TC. Seriously, what drugs are you on? I'm not fanboi-ing anything. I am simply applauding a company for standing up to intimidation tactics being used by a larger competitor. You can ask all you want what they've given back, but I'll tell you what they are giving back right now: They're seeing to it (by proxy mind you) that other individuals can roll out their own solutions based on the use of FOSS to minimize costs, thus allowing them to compete against others in a fair manner. Notice how other antivirus companies simply paid Trend Micro. In the case of this company, there will be court precedent being set. I'll give you an example of giving back not related to the article itself. I use FOSS everyday. How do I give back? By promoting the fact that I use it, and by stating what I like and dislike about applications and operating systems. Just because I can't code to save my own life doesn't mean I'm not contributing in any way. So please, the next time you see someone agreeing with what Barricuda is doing, don't automatically assume that this is fanboi-ing. We all know what happens when one assumes, right? |
| Abe Feb 13, 2008 8:58 AM EDT |
Quoting:Forgive me for not understanding how to make quotes nice and red with the label "quoted."You can do that simply by inserting the text you want quoted between open and close tags as such [ quote] ... text ... [ /quote] without the space I added after the opening brackets |
| tuxchick Feb 13, 2008 9:33 AM EDT |
Quoting: We all know what happens when one assumes, right? Yes. You assume that Barracuda Networks is this great FOSS hero based on zero evidence. I'm not saying they aren't- but I prefer a bit of evidence, and it's up to the folks who are proclaiming them as great FOSS friends to demonstrate why. It's very convenient for Barracuda to turn this patent case into an attack on FOSS, and instantly have all these passionate advocates on their side. Groklaw quotes from Trend Micro's filing: Quoting: Here's how Trend Micro describes its patent in the ITC complaint: To decrease the risk of a virus entering and/or leaving a network, the ‘600 Patent scans for viruses and other undesired software at the gateway of a network. Moreover, because viruses may be embedded in the content (such as, for example, email attachments and other content from the World Wide Web), the ‘600 Patent scans the content. What does that have to with ClamAV, or any of the many other FOSS applications that Barracuda uses? Nothing. It applies to any method or device used for gateway filtering. I'm Ok with boycotting Trend (and Symantec and F-Secure and the rest of the gang) just because they're untrustworthy, and have vested interests in keeping unhealthy Microsoft crapware alive and dominant. But this isn't a FOSS case. Any commercial, for-profit company that makes money off FOSS demonstrates their friendship by providing ongoing support to the very projects that make them money, and not playing games with source code. **p.s.** Bruce Byfield's article is excellent, as always, and I hope Barracuda kicks patent butt. And now I'm done. |
| herzeleid Feb 13, 2008 10:51 AM EDT |
> But this isn't a FOSS case Sure it is, It's about the suppression of competition through the use of egregious patents, and that's something that strikes at the heart of FOSS. The idea of defending a gateway point is so obvious that it's not even funny. It most definitely falls into the category of something which would be "immediately obvious to any competent practitioner of the art" and the slimy companies that game the system like this to strangle competition and innovation are a plague. But then again, these goons are only doing what the law allows, providing ample demonstration that the current software patent system needs to be scrapped. The current system rewards the fat-cats and old boy networks, and punishes any newcomer who might present a threat to their effortless income streams. |
| thenixedreport Feb 13, 2008 11:18 AM EDT |
Quoting:Yes. You assume that Barracuda Networks is this great FOSS hero based on zero evidence. Seriously, can you share with me so I can have that warm fuzzy feeling inside too? On a more serious note, where did I state that Barracuda was "this great FOSS hero?" Point that out to me. I fail to see how you can't understand the implications such a court case would have on FOSS usage in general, especially in the business arena. (thank you Abe for that wonderful tip) |
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