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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| salparadise Feb 19, 2008 12:27 AM EDT |
That's a canny move and no mistake. |
| tracyanne Feb 19, 2008 1:37 AM EDT |
It is a very canny move. That's how Microsoft will maintain it's dominance. As much as I would like to develop on non Microsoft OSs, there is nothing that compares to the tools that Microsoft has., and the non Microsoft toll makers almost seem to be doing everything they can to aid and abet Microsoft in this area. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 19, 2008 2:46 AM EDT |
Just wondering if this can be considered "dumping" under some law. After all, VS + SQL Server + MS Server + all the other tools represents quite a big value. Especially if you consider the ridiculous price that a very bare Windows Vista Ultimate sells for. |
| gus3 Feb 19, 2008 7:49 AM EDT |
Just like a drug dealer on the street. Boost the addiction of those already in your claws, get a few more on the road to being junkies. (Plagiarized shamelessly from a thread a couple months ago.) |
| Abe Feb 19, 2008 11:22 AM EDT |
Quoting:Just wondering if this can be considered "dumping" under some law...It doesn't matter and I am not sure if asking big brother to fight our battles would be of any value. I am not sure it would make a difference any how. That was bound to happen sooner or later because Microsoft couldn't compete against zero cost and good technology. With this move, they reduced their competing efforts some what for the time being. Companies will still pay full price and talented creative students would still prefer FOSS tools. They like to explore and tinker instead of being restricted and controlled. They wouldn't have the same opportunities with VS as with FOSS. We will see how long this will last until they have to raise it again by offering it for free to developers too. This will weaken their business model. As FOSS becomes an excellent technology with bigger share of the market, Microsoft will have to up the anti again. |
| tracyanne Feb 19, 2008 11:42 AM EDT |
Quoting:talented creative students would still prefer FOSS tools. They like to explore and tinker instead of being restricted and controlled. They wouldn't have the same opportunities with VS as with FOSS. You've obviously never used Visual Studio. |
| Abe Feb 19, 2008 12:40 PM EDT |
Quoting:You've obviously never used Visual Studio.I hate to tell you guessed wrong. I have VS 2005 on my laptop along with SQL Server express 2005, IIS 7, etc... Although not my primary job, I do use it every day for company web applications development. |
| tracyanne Feb 19, 2008 2:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:I do use it every day for company web applications development. So do I for eactly the same purpose, it's how we are so productive. |
| thenixedreport Feb 19, 2008 10:30 PM EDT |
Well, I like how Gambas is coming along. If only somebody would make a nice IDE for KDE and GNOME (which btw... the main person behind Gambas is working towards... a way to make both QT and GTK apps.... with the ability to build packages for multiple distributions!). EDIT: Take a look at this... http://gambasdoc.org/help/doc/release?view Note the screenshots and everything. |
| Abe Feb 20, 2008 10:36 AM EDT |
Quoting:Well, I like how Gambas is coming along.Pretty interesting. I am sure it will have potential. Thanks for the link. I will check it out some times. |
| Abe Feb 20, 2008 10:41 AM EDT |
Quoting:it's how we are so productive.To tell you the truth Tracyanne, I am more productive with FOSS. May be it just fits better with me. May be Gambas will be the answer for your need of a tool like VS on FOSS. :) |
| tracyanne Feb 20, 2008 12:22 PM EDT |
Abe i've looked at GAMBAS it's IDE is no where near what I'm looking for, and I'm not a fan of BASIC, I programmed in it for way too many years, on Microsoft and non Microsoft (DECs) systems, to really like it, it's a bit like going back to COBOL for me. I'm sure that at some point soon GAMBAS will be really useful though. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 20, 2008 1:30 PM EDT |
I agree. DIM just makes my skin crawl with unpleasant memories. |
| Abe Feb 21, 2008 6:41 AM EDT |
Quoting:I'm sure that at some point soon GAMBAS will be really useful though.It could be the start of a good thing for many who feel more comfortable with such tools. If they do a good job at getting the GUI put in a nice way, I believe someone else could easily add support for other languages like PHP, Python, Java/Script. etc... Too bad it is not far along enough for your needs. But, that is Open Source and we don't expect things be done over night. About VS, don't misunderstand me, it is very powerful and many people like it because it suits them well. Microsoft knows that and they are trying to attract FOSS developers by making PHP, Ruby, Python, AJAX library, supported in VS IDE. They even started giving it to students for free. They know that, when they get them hooked, it wouldn't be easy for them to leave it. |
| tuxtom Feb 21, 2008 9:21 AM EDT |
VS is cigarettes. Soylent Green is people. |
| Scott_Ruecker Feb 21, 2008 9:36 AM EDT |
Quoting:Soylent Green is people. SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!! Man, what a great and timeless movie. One of Heston's best as far as I am concerned. |
| tracyanne Feb 21, 2008 12:37 PM EDT |
Quoting:About VS, don't misunderstand me, it is very powerful and many people like it because it suits them well. Microsoft knows that and they are trying to attract FOSS developers by making PHP, Ruby, Python, AJAX library, supported in VS IDE. Of course it won't be easy to leave, moving from a tool that provides the sort of functionality that allows a developer to work on the business problem instead of the tool is always hard, and not my preferred path. There is a solution to that though. The FOSS community develop tools that provide the same sort of functionality. Encourage commercial tool developers to create tools that provide that sort of functionality for Linux. WingIDE is a huge step in the right direction, as is MonoDevelop (or will be when it's stable), and GAMBAS incidently. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 21, 2008 2:33 PM EDT |
Quoting:There is a solution to that though. The FOSS community develop tools that provide the same sort of functionality. Or re-teach the programmer to use his tools. Most people using VS have never programmed without an IDE. When Anjuta broke my build I was forced to learn the tools and a whole world opened for me. An IDE constrains me. It forces me to work in a specific way and I can't go another way or the system breaks and you get hopelessly stuck. Especially VS make me feel as if it, and not me, was in control of my project. A lot of programmers may find that they don't need or want an IDE anymore. Obviously this does not apply to you. You know how to work with an IDE and how to work without it. You prefer with. I prefer without. But a whole host of programmers have never experienced working without an IDE enough to be able to choose. |
| gus3 Feb 21, 2008 8:41 PM EDT |
Quoting:They even started giving it to students for free. They know that, when they get them hooked, it wouldn't be easy for them to leave it.And it's that many more students who are too "compromised" to be allowed to work on some FOSS projects. |
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