I don't post to mailing lists
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tracyanne Sep 01, 2008 5:27 PM EDT |
One reason is the damn Top posting rule (the one that says don't top post). I find it almost impossible to follow a thread where the response to the last post is either in line with the last post or follows it. For me the best way to keep track is to have the most recent response first, that means top posting, that way if I need to refresh, I can go backwards through the responses. The second reason is you have to do everything by email, and I get tired of receiving emails from threads I'm no longer interested in. |
| herzeleid Sep 01, 2008 5:42 PM EDT |
I feel the same way about the "no top posting rule". I'd much rather see the answer I'm looking for in a single sentence at the top, than having to wade through multiple levels and pages of replies to get the final sentence. |
| gus3 Sep 01, 2008 6:21 PM EDT |
Quoting:I feel the same way about the "no top posting rule". I'd much rather see the answer I'm looking for in a single sentence at the top, than having to wade through multiple levels and pages of replies to get the final sentence.So you don't like this, then? ;-) |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 01, 2008 6:22 PM EDT |
I love the "no top posting" rule. I read top-to-bottom, not the other way up. IMHO if you have a problem with people who bottom-post it's usually not the bottom posting itself that's annoying. Along with bottom-posting go two other "rules": 1) quote only the minimum what you need to and delete the rest. 2) Put your reply *directly* after the quote you're replying to. I.e. use multiple quotes and responses if you need to. Don't quote a full e-mail and write one response that addresses three different things in the e-mail you quoted. Top-posting is understandable in some corporate environments where you need to be able to forward or CC a mail to someone who's not in on the discussion. That way he can read the entire thread. On mailinglists where everyone is always in on the discussion it's just annoying. Quoting:I get tired of receiving emails from threads I'm no longer interested in. 1) collapse threads 2) filter 3) unsubscribe in a timely manner :-) If you're using Thunderbird, try the Watch/Ignore thread addon: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/3135 |
| tracyanne Sep 01, 2008 6:24 PM EDT |
This isn't as bad, each post is in a descrete block and can be safely ignored, if necessary. When it's in emails it gets very cluttered very quickly, unless the most recent reply is at the top, in which case one can simply ignore the rest. |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 01, 2008 6:30 PM EDT |
Quoting:When it's in emails it gets very cluttered very quickly Are you (forced to) use Outlook at work? I've found Outlook incapable of proper quoting and bottom-posting, messing up the replies. In most e-mail clients it's pretty easy, especially in thunderbird where with Ctrl+Shift+V you can paste something as a quotation (with proper line breaks and > marks inserted). Actually, It's not just Outlook that's a pain here. It's any client that does not allow you to force display of messages in text/plain, ignoring the HTML part (or parse the HTML part to create a text/plain for you). |
| Steven_Rosenber Sep 01, 2008 6:34 PM EDT |
I also prefer top-posting, because the idea that you're reading only one message in a thread and need it to be in chronological order is, to me at least, absurd. That said, I do go along with it. If it makes geeks happy, what's the harm? |
| tracyanne Sep 01, 2008 6:53 PM EDT |
I have no problem with Chronological order, just so long as the order is date descending. |
| dthacker Sep 01, 2008 10:12 PM EDT |
Mailing lists save my bacon on a regular basis. I try to answer when possible and I've developed my answerer's etiquette. 1) Do not top post. Make your comment or question directly after the relevant information in the email. 2) If the message has gone through several iterations of question/answer, trim the irrelevant material and indicate that you did so. [long discussion of original problem snipped.......] 3) Do not change the thread subject unless it's really no longer relevant. 4) Use the convention of footnotes for URL's ( I first saw this on Debian's mailing lists) 5) Address the problem. Don't address the poster's intelligence, grammar, or skill. Address the problem. I'm a professional, my answers should reflect that and be an example to others. 6) If a thread starts deteriorating into a flamewar, I'll remind the participant's once to get back to business. Then I ignore the thread. 7) I ignore trolls. They want attention, and I refuse to give it to them. Cheers! Dave |
| tuxchick Sep 01, 2008 10:34 PM EDT |
Do I hear any votes for 'follow the convention already established in the thread'? So if it's already going all top-posted, reply on top. If it's correctly-quoted, snipped, and bottom-posted, then return the favor. The one thing that drives me batshot is people that mix it up, which 99% of the time is top-posting a bottom-posted thread. The second thing is people who quote nothing, so you have no idea what they are replying to. |
| tracyanne Sep 01, 2008 10:37 PM EDT |
Sorry Carla, what were you replying to? |
| tuxchick Sep 01, 2008 11:16 PM EDT |
Groan @TA. ;) |
| Scott_Ruecker Sep 02, 2008 1:22 AM EDT |
For the Record: I think that LXer's thread format is the best overall thread format on the Internet. Our readers can quickly create and/or get 'caught up' on a conversation quickly and without having to click on a ton of things or have to decide what comments and comment trees to expand. I will admit that in a long thread it can get a little confusing as to who is responding to whom sometimes but that one negative is far outweighed by its readability and ease of use to the widest possible audience. Our readers are also good at creating separate threads for different conversations related to the same article. It is only the really long (50-60+ posts) threads that can get hard to come in cold on, but at that point almost all of the people still commenting have been there for most if not all the conversation anyway. Every other thread format I have come across gets hard to stay on top of and a pain to navigate through almost instantly. The readability, ease of use and consistent high quality of their content make LXer's threads a destination unto themselves. Many of our threads end up with more page views than the newswire articles they are related too. Google indexes our threads constantly (along with our newswire of course) and our threads have been cited numerous times in articles on other news sites as well. What other news website can say that? A little off topic and I know I'm cheer leading, but I'm the Cheerleader! ;-) |
| Sander_Marechal Sep 02, 2008 1:49 AM EDT |
There's one feature on LXer forums that I sorely miss in most other forums: That "skip to new" link at the top of each thread. In manu other forums I spend up to half my time finding the place where I left off last time. |
| DiBosco Sep 02, 2008 6:28 PM EDT |
I so agree with Sander's first post, that form of posting is good etiquette, neat and easy to follow. Bottom posting seems counter intuitive to me. Scott, I agree, this is a very easy forum to read (and I really enjoy a lot of the informed discussions here). I wonder whether if it became much busier you'd need different sections for different topics. Maybe one of the reasons it works so well is it's quite a small community? |
| Scott_Ruecker Sep 02, 2008 11:05 PM EDT |
Quoting:I wonder whether if it became much busier you'd need different sections for different topics. Maybe one of the reasons it works so well is it's quite a small community? I have like six things I want to all say at once..must..organize..thoughts.. A site like Linuxquestions.org has to have many subject specific forums because of the breadth of the issues being discussed. With LXer, the focus is squarely on the news and almost all the threads started are directly related to an article on the newswire. Having forums for other subjects of discussion would take people away from our newswire which is counterproductive to our central purpose, the news and discussions about it. LXer is not known as a place where you go to ask for support or help, yes some do, but we point them in the right direction and send them on their way. Small? I respectfully disagree. In comparison to the big forum sites our community is small. But we are not a forum website about FOSS news: we are a FOSS news website that provides a forum for our readers to talk about it. I would say that we have one of the largest (if not the largest) and most active forum communities on the Internet. I have subscribed to just about every thread that has been created on LXer since late 2005. According to the information in my profile over 3,500 different threads have been created on LXer since then. For a news website that only has forums for discussing the news and the LXer website specifically, I would say that we have a very large and active community. Also, I know it may seem that the number of readers who start and contribute to our threads is relatively small but I know for a fact from talking to our 'regulars' and others I have met who visit LXer that many many people read and follow our threads without ever saying a word. It is because our forums have become a part of the news they want to get. The information presented and opinions expressed in our threads are a resource unto themselves. Our threads have been quoted and referenced by writers in their articles for other news sites many times, what other news website can boast about that? |
| jezuch Sep 03, 2008 2:04 AM EDT |
Quoting:Bottom posting seems counter intuitive to me. Your intuition is different than mine then. |
| gus3 Sep 03, 2008 3:46 AM EDT |
Bottom-posting is not counter-intuitive, to those for whom it is not counter-intuitive. Yes, that's a tautology, but I can explain. When I read a message which requires background, I prefer it in reading order. The reminders for what the message is about (the "questions", if you will), first, and then the reply. Giving answers, then asking questions, may work for Jeopardy!, but that format does not work well for me when I'm reading text. Experience tells me I'm not alone in this. I have no problem with those who prefer top-posting. What works for them, doesn't work for me, and vice-versa. It's just the way the world is. |
| DiBosco Sep 03, 2008 3:55 AM EDT |
@ Jezuch: yep, fair point. Would be poor if we were all the same. @ Scott: I didn't mean to cause offence with the "small" comment. It just seems to me that voume of postings is small compared to somewhere like linuxquestions or the Mandriva forum for example. I take your point about the news site, I was, indeed, just comparing against the previous examples, this the only news site I visit! Frankly, I'd much rather read a site like this where people seem highly knowledgable with fewer postings and there doesn't seem to be any trolling! |
| Scott_Ruecker Sep 03, 2008 4:37 AM EDT |
DiBosco: I should have used different wording, I am by no means upset or offended by what you said. I knew when I read your comment you meant no offense, you were right, it just made me want to jump up and say "Hey! We're not small..uhh..ok, we're small but we're really cool." LOL!! Thank You for the compliment, I take personal pride in keeping LXer's threads free of spam, flames, trolls and the like. Between the other editors and our readers, that stuff doesn't last much longer than it took to create it. |
| jacog Sep 03, 2008 10:22 AM EDT |
Quoting:there doesn't seem to be any trolling u r teh sukk lol linix r 4 lusrs |
| gus3 Sep 03, 2008 12:46 PM EDT |
You misspelled "luzrz". |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!