I'm sitting here feeling very superior
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tracyanne Nov 24, 2008 6:22 PM EDT |
Our bloke from Perth (that WA - Western Australia, we're on the other side of the country in Queensland North of Brisbane) is here for two days. I'm listening to the trouble he's having connecting his 64bit Windows laptop to our Windows network. I don't even have that much trouble connecting my Mandriva Linux box to the same network. Even funnier is listening to the tale of woe about 64 bit Windows in general. |
| gus3 Nov 24, 2008 6:41 PM EDT |
But suggest to him that he stop chasing his tail and switch to a more stable platform, and he'll get very defensive. |
| tuxchick Nov 24, 2008 6:51 PM EDT |
Well he should, gus. everyone knows that windoze is more better. Is too. Is too. etc. ;) |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 24, 2008 6:54 PM EDT |
64-bit Windows is a joke. It's not even really 64 bit to begin with. The "unsigned long" and "integer" on 64 bit Windows are still 32 bit. MS introduced a new 64 bit datatype called "long long" which is 64 bit. See my recent T-DOSE article where logfs hacker Jörn Engel talks about that. MS probably did it so that existing software which assumes that an integer is 32bit will keep working on Win64. That really is the death stab for 64bit Windows. It means that sizeof(unsigned long) no longer matches the size of a pointer, which it does on *every other OS ever invented* on almost all architectures, including 64bit Alpha back in the 90s. It's the defacto way for finding out the size of a pointer. That means it's a nightmare to build any cross-platform app on Windows 64bit. In this day and age where most new projects are cross platform, that's a death stab for 64bit Windows. It's an easy choice for ISVs. Support Win32 and any POSIX OS, or support only Win32/64. I predict it will be a real nice train wreck to watch. People who need really 64bit will move to Linux or OSX. People who don't know what a bit is will either run Win32 or moan about Win64's lack of applications. At some point MS will be forced to go back on this mistake because computers come with so much RAM that you cannot use/sell WIn32 anymore. Then every ISV that trusted MS and supported Win32/64 with 32bit integers and "long long" will get burned badly and be forced to make their code truly 64bit compatible. That will cost MS a *lot* of ISV support. |
| hkwint Nov 24, 2008 7:23 PM EDT |
Hey, wait a minute, 64bit in "64bit Windows" means something else than 64bit in "64bit OS"? Never knew that.
Somebody should protect "64bit" as a trademark maybe? Or is it too late? Anyway, I was afraid of 64bit when it came (to Linux) because of the lacking support, so my second 64bit-CPU still runs 32bit Linux; no problemos with 3Gb (deliberately chose the 3Gb as I understood I can't have 4 with 32bit OS). So now I'll wait till I need more RAM and than I have to switch I assume. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 24, 2008 7:27 PM EDT |
Seeing as Flash was my last holdout for 32bit Linux (I like YouTube and my g/f would kill me if she couldn't play Neopets) I am quite happy with Abobes 64bit flash release. It it's any good (and comes to Debian? Pretty please unfreeze?) I'll be upgrading to 64bit on this AMD64 box. |
| tracyanne Nov 24, 2008 10:41 PM EDT |
I don't think it would do much good to suggest he go to a more stable platform, he's a die hard Microsoft user, he's actually an MVP and is Microsoft Certified etc, and regularly gets involved in Microsoft user group meetings. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 25, 2008 3:02 AM EDT |
tracyanne, I know someone like that as well. Guess what he's running these days :-) The trick to converting such people is simple exposure. Simply sit there with your Mandriva box and feel smug. At some point he will notice that your box never has any problems while he is fighting with his system at least once a week. If some random coworker comes to you with some device (camera, USB hard drive, whatever) even better. He will notice that you never have to install those crapware-ridden driver CDs and that all these devices work out-of-the-box with your machine while he needs to go hunt for drivers all the time. It may take some time (a few months maybe) but eventually he will notice and start asking questions. Then give him a live CD and reel him in :-) |
| jezuch Nov 25, 2008 3:10 AM EDT |
Quoting:It means that sizeof(unsigned long) no longer matches the size of a pointer, which it does on *every other OS ever invented* on almost all architectures, I don't think that's true. On some architectures pointers to different types are not always the same size. You can't even assume that sizeof(void*) tells you anything meaningful. I read it somewhere, but can't remember where ;) I think it was something on LWN. Quoting:It's the defacto way for finding out the size of a pointer. Then all software is de facto broken. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 25, 2008 4:05 AM EDT |
Quoting:I don't think that's true. Specialy cases exempted. I did some googling. There are four different 64bit programming models. LP64 (Solaris, AIX, HP, Linux, Mac OS X, FreeBSD, and IBM z/OS), ILP64 (Cray supercomputers) , SILP64 (could not find any implementations) and LLP64 (Windows64). sizeof(unsinged long) == size of a pointer on LP64, ILP64 and SILP64. Only on LLP64 does it not match. |
| tracyanne Nov 26, 2008 6:37 PM EDT |
Another Vista problem, this time on a 32 bit machine. Vista seems to have died. |
| tracyanne Nov 26, 2008 6:39 PM EDT |
It appears to be a network problem, it's lost network connectivity. |
| tracyanne Nov 26, 2008 6:44 PM EDT |
But the whole machine tends to hang when booting in normal mode, they can boot into safe mode however. Looks like a day lost reinstalling, in the hope that, that will fix the problem. |
| tracyanne Nov 26, 2008 6:47 PM EDT |
My boss gets very defensive when I try to talk about the problem, he knows my thoughts on Vista, and Windows in general. |
| tracyanne Nov 26, 2008 10:42 PM EDT |
From the "If you thought wireless was bad on Linux" department. Our bloke from Perth is having problems keeping his Vista 64 machine connected to our Active Directory network, it keeps dropping the connection, and then requiring that he re-enter the WPA key. Sorry to bore you all, but I find it quite amusing. |
| herzeleid Nov 26, 2008 10:50 PM EDT |
> Sorry to bore you all, but I find it quite amusing. Not at all, keep them coming! |
| tracyanne Nov 26, 2008 11:37 PM EDT |
It appears that the problem on the Vista 32 bit machine cleared itself as mysteriously as it appeared, all it took was several reboots. |
| gus3 Nov 26, 2008 11:50 PM EDT |
Quoting:all it took was several rebootsThe intervening profanities and threats probably helped as well. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 27, 2008 2:52 AM EDT |
Quoting:Our bloke from Perth is having problems keeping his Vista 64 machine connected to our Active Directory network What AD version? Server 2003? Server 2008? And do you have any XP machines on the network as well? At my company they threw out *all* the Vista machines. As it turned out it's nigh impossible to run a mixed XP/Vista network when the AD server is 2003. And if you have roaming profiles then it's impossible no matter what version you have on the server. So, the Vista machines got converted partly to XP Pro and partly to Ubuntu. There are now 4 or so people running Linux here and another 5 have bought Macs. Not bad out of a total of 40 people or so. |
| tracyanne Nov 27, 2008 6:12 AM EDT |
Server 2003, yes 3 XP machines, mine work desktop, the media processing machine and one of the bosses laptops. |
| jacog Nov 27, 2008 6:23 AM EDT |
XP... XP... Xeroderma Pigmentosa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeroderma_pigmentosa If you have XP, it's best not to go into the sun. And it could lead to cancer. I read it on the Internet, so it must be true. |
| hkwint Nov 27, 2008 2:52 PM EDT |
Quoting:As it turned out it's nigh impossible to run a mixed XP/Vista network when the AD server is 2003. Gotta love those Microsoft Open Standards and compatibility efforts. |
| jdixon Nov 27, 2008 8:31 PM EDT |
> The intervening profanities and threats probably helped as well. People keep telling me that threatening machines doesn't work. I look at them and say "Of course it doesn't work. They don't believe YOU." Then I threaten the machine and it starts working. :) |
| gus3 Nov 27, 2008 10:44 PM EDT |
I just slap it around a bit. One smack to fix a monitor was very impressive to my factory cow-orkers. |
| tracyanne Nov 27, 2008 11:40 PM EDT |
I've never been in a factory with cow-orkers. What's it like? |
| gus3 Nov 27, 2008 11:42 PM EDT |
Pretty much the same as in tech support: "I'm surrounded by idiots!" And, just like in tech support, the feeling's mutual. |
| jacog Nov 28, 2008 3:37 AM EDT |
Hey, don't dis cows. :) Here in SA we have a rather shocking amount of pedestrians that get killed every year while crossing the highway. Yet, I have seen an entire herd of cows cross an eight lane highway by making use of the pedestrian bridge. I dunno... to me that reads: cows: 1 - humans: 0 ( I have serious difficulty posting anything on-topic this week ) |
| gus3 Nov 28, 2008 3:40 AM EDT |
LOL jacog. |
| jdixon Nov 28, 2008 4:57 PM EDT |
> I just slap it around a bit. Why do you think the machines believe me? I've tried telling folks, they all talk to each other when we're not around. If you simply beat up a few of them (complete destruction works too, but is usually frowned upon by your employer), then word gets around and they start listening. I'm not sure if the other people believe me or not though. However, the machines do. |
| techiem2 Nov 30, 2008 7:36 PM EDT |
Exactly jdixon. How else do you explain machines that stop working for the user and then suddenly work perfectly again as soon as you are standing there? They KNOW that if they misbehave with you standing there they are gonna get at minimum prodded around in and quite possibly reloaded. mwahaha. |
| ColonelPanik Nov 30, 2008 10:37 PM EDT |
Just left the son-in-law, that msce ^&$*((_(*&@#$% with his desktop running
Debian Lenny. Oops, well I didn't know he wanted that winders partition. lol He still claims that Linux TCO is higher than his choice of dreck software. Cause it is so HARD to learn. It did take him 15 minutes to get his networked multifunction printer to work. A company would need more admins too???? g-3 >I just slap it around a bit. Some day son you will get b/slapped into to the underfloor ductwork. |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 01, 2008 4:08 AM EDT |
Quoting:It did take him 15 minutes to get his networked multifunction printer to work. Not bad for a Linux newbie. Try asking the same thing of a Windows newbie. |
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