Linux new to me so stupid question time
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| linuxnewbie9999 Dec 02, 2008 12:49 PM EDT |
I am trying to get Flash installed on a debian linux desktop I just downloaded and installed yesterday. I don't know anything about linux at all. IS there any way you could post the step by step instructions to get flash into iceweasel (firefox I guess) for people who don't know even how to run a linux command? Sorry for the ridiculous question but these files and where to run them are totally foreign to me but I do want to start getting away from the Microsoft garbage. |
| theboomboomcars Dec 02, 2008 1:49 PM EDT |
Adobe does have pretty good directions on their site.
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/productinfo/instru... I am not sure if the .deb file will work with Debian but you can try it and see. The .tar.gz will work though. If the terminal is a strange and scary place for you here are some tips. Everything is case sensitive, if you want to go to the desktop directory after you have opened the terminal you would type in cd Desktop. If there are spaces in the directory (or file) name ie. if the directory is called "My Stuff" to go to that directory you would need to type in cd My Stuff. Another trick you can use here if you don't have any thing else named My* is you can hit the TAB key and it will fill in the rest of the name. (This may not work with all terminals in all Distros). If you wanted to try gnash, the Free flash player, it should be in the repositories so all you would have to do is open your package manager and search for gnash. Feel free to come back if you need additional help or check with http://www.linuxquestions.org |
| Steven_Rosenber Dec 02, 2008 2:37 PM EDT |
Gnash actually working would totally change the way I do just about everything. By working, I mean play Flash video from places like YouTube and the output of Adobe's Flash Video Encoder (the latter being an application I've been using to hammer audio and video into Flash). I should probably upgrade my Debian Etch PowerPC box to Lenny (or find a backport) to see how it's working. |
| linuxnewbie9999 Dec 02, 2008 3:30 PM EDT |
Ok here are my issues. I found Gnash and downloaded it and it has several files in it but clicking on them doesn't execute them. Says it put them on my desktop (2 .gz files and one debian bianry file). I found a kind of terminal program in the OS and when I run it it says myname@linux:~$ I am not sure how to tell it to go to my desktop directory and then once I do, not sure how to execute the files . . . Like I said I really don't know linux but I knew DOS pretty well. Thanks for the help. Leo. |
| theboomboomcars Dec 02, 2008 3:57 PM EDT |
for Gnash you should just open the package manager. If Ubuntu hasn't strayed to far from Debian then the package manager will be synaptic in the System-Administration menu. If that is not it then hopefully someone who uses Debian will be able to report on which one it would be. If you are wanting to watch Youtube videos you will need adobe flash which you can get by going to adobe's website and follow the directions linked to in my first post. The change directory command is cd. What the terminal is telling you is that user myname on computer linux myname@linux is the active user. the ~ is the current directory, which is myname's home directory. so from there you can see what is in your directory by typing in ls. Then to go to your desktop you would type in cd Desktop (if Desktop is capitalized in Debian). If you type help in to the terminal it will give you a list of commands. Then you can type in man to learn how to use it. Which version of Debian are you using? Etch, Lenny, Sid? I don't think it's relevant but it would be interesting to know. |
| linuxnewbie9999 Dec 02, 2008 4:33 PM EDT |
Ok I am going to punt now. This is clearly much more difficult than I had thought/hoped Linux had become. I was able to get into the Desktop directory and ran your commands without any errors but when I restarted the browser - no flash installed. I tried your last command at the end of your note (dpkg) and it failed with an error. It said I need superuser privileges to run that command. I am sure that's why when I tried to install flash from inside of the browser automatically - it would complete without error but never install the flash utility. Final note - In answer to your question concerning which version, I downloaded from debian.org the stable i386 package labeled: 40r5-i386 at this link: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r5/i386/iso-cd/ Until Linux becomes at least point and click for installation of features it will remain out of the mainstream and Microsoft will maintain their hegemony over the desktop. Bummer. However if installing the most popular web utility is this much trouble, I can't even fathom what I will have to know to really customize this OS/desktop for my personal use. Do you know of any cheap prepackaged Linux packages which have all of this type stuff (pdf viewers, flash, shockwave etc) bundled into them? Maybe I should buy on of those if they exist. I want to thank you so very very much for taking the time to try and teach an old dog new tricks. I guess it it true what they say about old dogs. Again, thank you and take care. Leo. |
| tracyanne Dec 02, 2008 4:34 PM EDT |
@linuxnewbie9999, if you are so new to Linux, why are you attempting to set up a Debian desktop? Why don't you try something a lot easier? Like Ubuntu or Simply Mepis, if you want a debian based distribution, or Mandriva, or PCLinuxOS, for an RPM based distro. Any one of those would make installing Flash, and the flash plug in a simple call to the package manager. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 02, 2008 4:49 PM EDT |
I've found that the Debian-repository mozilla-flash-plugin works just fine to display flash in Iceweasel, rather than using an external viewer. |
| Steven_Rosenber Dec 02, 2008 4:52 PM EDT |
One of the main reasons I want Gnash to succeed is that there is no Flash player for non-i386/amd64 Linux. That means those using non-Intel hardware with non-proprietary OSes are not supported. OpenBSD's only Flash compatibility is when running in Linux compatibility mode (and that is i386 only) ... and PowerPC is among the CPUs that don't have Flash support in Linux or any other OS. You can get PowerPC Flash support only if you run Mac OS X and OS 9 (they can support OS 9 but not Linux ... lovely). Never mind that from beginning to end, Flash is a closed-source product which, if you want to play in that pond, requires you to purchase expensive apps from Adobe, and we really need an equivalent FOSS technology (to play video/audio in browsers) ... |
| tuxtom Dec 02, 2008 4:57 PM EDT |
@tracyanne: Your observation is so simple, so blatantly obvious to the average Microsoft-user-Linux-candidate that it makes me wonder why Linux hasn't taken over the desktop market. |
| tracyanne Dec 02, 2008 5:09 PM EDT |
Well TT, it was pretty obvious to me that I need to find a Linux distribution that was easy for me, when I started investigating Linux back in 2000, and began my switch from Windows, it was also pretty obvious, after a a small amout of investigation, and a few attempts to to install it, that Debian wasn't that Linux distribution. Eventually I settled on Mandrake, as that was the Linux that met my requirements. Given that there is so much noise about Ubuntu, so much so that most Microsofties I talk to seem to think that Ubuntu is Linux, I'm surprised that linuxnewbie9999 even considered Debian. It seems to me that Debian is the least obvious choice for any Microsoft-user-Linux-candidate, and anyone of the distributions I mentioned, and especially Ubuntu, a so beedingly obvious choice that I wonder wtf. |
| linuxnewbie9999 Dec 02, 2008 5:21 PM EDT |
Ok sorry for starting the argument. I am going to take the advice above and download Ubuntu and see if works for old guys like me. Again thanks for all the effort. When I get it running I will see if I can make it back here and give you all the perspective from someone who knows zero about Linux. Thanks again, Leo. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 02, 2008 5:45 PM EDT |
Obviously far more of a Newbie than I could have imagined, if you think that you need to apologize for setting up a distro-war! |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 02, 2008 5:48 PM EDT |
No need to apologize newbie. I am with tracyanne on this one: Go try Ubuntu or Mandriva. You will have a *much* better experience. Debian is a fantastic distro but it's a power tool that you really need to know how to use effectively. Ubuntu is based on Debian. If you have played with Ubuntu for a few months and find yourself too restricted in the "Ubuntu way" then that is the moment to switch to Debian. By then you will have acquired the skills you need to use it. |
| bigg Dec 02, 2008 5:58 PM EDT |
If you go the route of Ubuntu, here is a guide to setting up the most common stuff on Ubuntu 8.10: http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-ubuntu-8.10 http://www.linuxquestions.org/ is a great place to get answers to basic questions. The Ubuntu forums are also very friendly (though sometimes the answers are not that helpful). |
| theboomboomcars Dec 02, 2008 6:20 PM EDT |
Quoting:It said I need superuser privileges to run that command.It's asking that because regular users don't have rights to install software, that is what root is for. It is a security feature and one of the reasons that mal-ware doesn't work very well on a linux system. In Debian to get superuser rights you need to switch to become root. su is the command for that. You would type in su into the terminal then enter the root password when asked for it. Ubuntu uses sudo, which grants temporary superuser rights to a qualified regular user. Ubuntu doesn't even set up a root account. With sudo the system asks for the user's password. I think Mandriva uses the root setup, but it has been many moons since I have used Mandriva (It was Mandrake back then) it just doesn't get along with my hardware very well. Quoting:Do you know of any cheap prepackaged Linux packages which have all of this type stuff (pdf viewers, flash, shockwave etc) bundled into them?First place to check for this would be the distribution software repositories(repos). There are lots of different types of applications in them, pretty much anything you may be interested in doing with your computer will have applications in the repos. Find the package manager and fire it up and take a look to see what's available. Also check into the distro's forums and linuxquestions. They are full of info. But don't be afraid to come back here, it is fairly pleasant here. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 02, 2008 6:22 PM EDT |
linuxnewbie9999; Please let us know what works for you. Since most of the Linux "Distros" are free you can just keep trying them until you get one that works for you! Have fun. |
| tuxtom Dec 02, 2008 6:38 PM EDT |
@tracyanne - Yeah, it does kinda seem obvious to some of us here, but remember that Debian is a staple...like GM, Ford or Chrysler. It would be a common assumption that it would work out of the box or at least have a decent road map for a new user. Not all users want to do days of research into the pros and cons of different Linux distributions to try out a new OS. They don't give a rat's aorta about package management nuances...they just want it to work out-of-the-box, as it should in the desktop domain. Common web media should work, period. If it doesn't, Linux fails. For us it is "Linux-is fun-for-Geeks", while for MOST Windows converts it's "Why-Doesn't-This-Work?". The supreme irony is that the people here who want to see the Linux desktop for the masses the most (i.e. Total World Domination) are the very ones that hold great disdain for distributions like Ubuntu which are really making inroads. Read through any thread here with 'ubuntu' in it to see what I mean. It is almost a farce. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 02, 2008 7:08 PM EDT |
tuxtom: Thank you sir. |
| tracyanne Dec 02, 2008 7:15 PM EDT |
But TT, it's fun picking on Ubuntu, It's not the Newbie friendly distributions it's marketed as, yes it's a good solid, newbie friendly distribution, but it's not as newbie friendly as say Mandriva, which has a full set of administration tools all in one place, and which defaults to the KDE desktop. Although with KDE4, a lot of that shine has gone from Mandriva. |
| tuxtom Dec 03, 2008 1:06 PM EDT |
Mandriva? Certainly a good distro. But it's the name, Traceyanne...the name. It sounds like a salivary disorder. Maybe it doesn't sound so offensive in French or Portugese. I was a huge fan of Mandrake...and not just because it sounded like a British quaalude, though I do have to admit that did appeal to my rebellious side. |
| jdixon Dec 03, 2008 1:08 PM EDT |
> I was a huge fan of Mandrake... I've always been partial that comic strip myself. Which is, of course, the reason they finally changed the name. The hat, wand, and stars logos they used didn't help their position any. |
| jdixon Dec 03, 2008 1:13 PM EDT |
> The supreme irony is that the people here who want to see the Linux desktop for the masses the most (i.e. Total World Domination) are the very ones that hold great disdain for distributions like Ubuntu which are really making inroads. Great disdain? Not really. Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that does get tiresome after a while though. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 03, 2008 1:21 PM EDT |
Yeah, things that work and don't need to be fiddled with are boring. |
| bigg Dec 03, 2008 1:30 PM EDT |
> Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that does get tiresome after a while though. Yeah, we need a little more Slackware this and Slackware that. > things that work and don't need to be fiddled with are boring. Perfect time to make reference to Slackware. > it's not as newbie friendly as say Mandriva, which has a full set of administration tools all in one place, and which defaults to the KDE desktop That's a debatable point. I remember the advantages of KDE being "8.6 trillion configuration options" which was scary. I liked the "unconfigurable" GNOME desktop. Just having a start button in the lower left corner did not get around the fact that there were a couple thousand things to dig through in the KDE menu. |
| Bob_Robertson Dec 03, 2008 3:03 PM EDT |
As a long-time keeper of a KNOPPIX disk for various recovery and discovery reasons, I've quite a liking for PCLinuxOS. (heretic! its not debian based! Burn Him!) But what I have found is that Linux systems don't blow up unless one messes with them. Get it working, leave it alone, and it just plain runs. What a Linux newbie really needs is a working system, long enough to get the hang of *NIX structure. Once that happens, I honestly believe any distribution will do. For that matter, any distribution will do at the outset. But it needs to be preinstalled, either by the integrator or neighbor. Just. Like. Windows. Is. |
| tuxtom Dec 03, 2008 3:06 PM EDT |
@Bigg: Thanks for reminding me about two of my production servers. Almost forgot they were there... Server 1: Slackware 11 (2.4.33.3) up 379 days Server 2: Slackware 12 (2.6.21.5) up 373 days Certainly no record but impressive nonetheless. |
| ABCC Dec 03, 2008 3:17 PM EDT |
@linuxnewbie9999 To get Flash running on debian shouldn't be too tricky, the aformentioned mozilla-flash-plugin ought to do the job. For other multimedia/non-free programs there's the Marillat/debian-multimedia repository which you can add the easy way with Synaptic or the hard way by editing your /etc/apt/sources.list http://debian-multimedia.org/ Theres a similar repo for Ubuntu called medibuntu which you could use the 'flashplugin-nonfree' which is available through apt by default afaik. http://www.medibuntu.org/ The third option, atleast in Ubuntu, is going to a webpage such as youtube without the flash plugin. You'll be prompted to install it there and then which generally does the trick. HTH, ABCC |
| jdixon Dec 03, 2008 3:30 PM EDT |
> Yeah, we need a little more Slackware this and Slackware that. Who am I to argue? :) |
| penguinist Dec 03, 2008 3:36 PM EDT |
@linuxnewbie: Seriously, if you want a distribution that "just works" then you should be looking at a distribution like Ubuntu. The Ubuntu people have paid a lot of attention to usability so that users do not have to become experts in order to install and use it. Among other things, Flash installation is an easy point and click. The "Synaptic Package Manager" gives you access to over 25,000 program packages each installable with a click. (Ubuntu is based on Debian.) |
| jdixon Dec 03, 2008 3:44 PM EDT |
> Seriously, if you want a distribution that "just works" then you should be looking at a distribution like Ubuntu. Agreed. My default list for a while for newbies has been Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Mepis, and Mandriva. Unfortuantely, Mandriva has shot itself in the foot with their default installation of KDE4 in the 2009 edition and both Mepis and PCLinuxOS are getting very long of tooth. Mepis at least has their latest version in beta, so it shouldn't be too long till it's ready. |
| bigg Dec 03, 2008 4:00 PM EDT |
> My default list for a while for newbies has been Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Mepis, and Mandriva. I'd add Mint to that list. I also will no longer recommend Mandriva given that I had an ugly experience with the latest release, and their letting Adam Williamson go is a sign that they might not be around much longer. Even if they survive I am concerned that the quality of the distro/updates/support will suffer. I've heard too many comments about the PCLinuxOS forums to recommend it to a newbie. |
| tuxtom Dec 03, 2008 4:02 PM EDT |
I also must highly recommend Ubuntu with the mediubuntu repository for a mainstream desktop. My primary desktop has been Kubuntu for a few years now. I have also had better luck getting everything working on Laptop installs (Wireless, etc.) with vanilla Ubuntu than with any other distro (Mandriva was pretty good there, too). The biggest thorn in my Linux side is my favorite browser, Opera, which has major problems randomly freezing up with every flash plugin I have tried (KDE). It also handles MIME types inconsistently and crashes occasionally, at least in KDE. Pretty sad considering they're both Qt. All that being said, and I'll probably get reprimanded for this, but if a new user plans on making a mainstream living with Linux they should probably be looking at using Fedora / CentOS / RHEL and learning their nuances. Those would be a more valuable addition to your resume. |
| tracyanne Dec 03, 2008 4:04 PM EDT |
@bigg, I have to agree. Letting Adam, and other techie types go is a big mistake. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 03, 2008 4:15 PM EDT |
B_R said: "What a Linux newbie really needs is a working system, long enough to get the hang of *NIX structure. Once that happens, I honestly believe any distribution will do." Yes, that is what any computer n00b needs. And maybe a link to that distros forum. Thats what the Lindependence guys are doing, you get to see several machines running different distros. Pick one, they help you install and you are good to go! Those OLPC XOs sure do well out in the sticks. They are ready-to-run out of the box and kids who don't even have electricity at home are computing. tracyanne is having great success getting people happy with Linux, maybe she has some insights? |
| tracyanne Dec 03, 2008 4:53 PM EDT |
All I do is install my favourite Linux, make sure that everything works. By that I mean that all the CODECs are installed, that it's possible to play a rented movie (if the machine has a DVD player) that they can go wireless if they want, 99% of the time it's no different than setting up a wired network connection, very occassionally it requires a bit of extra jiggery pokery because the wireless is Broadcom. I install all the games the Video card is capable of running, and as much of the different types of software the customer is likely to want to use. Most of the time, that's all they ever want, and they file the root password away in a safe place and forget about it, and the totl of my suppot is getting them used NoScript in Firefox, or walking them through attaching files to an email in Evolution of Thunderbird, or maybe finding and installing drivers for printers that can't be included in the repostos, because of some weired idea the hardware manufacturer has about property. The more adventurous will want lessons in how to use digikam, and theGIMP, once they start to get the hang of that, the even more adventurous will start to teach themselves. There are only two people who require a lot of input to keep them going with just the basics, and they are both blokes. Basically, the class of user I've been doing this for, is happy to be able to surf and email and download phots from their camera, these are the majority of the peopel who use Windows, and who end up with computers that are infested with Viruses, who take the computer back to the shop multiple times to get it cleaned out, or if they are luckier find a techie type who uses windows to do it for them, or if they are even luckier, find me to upgrade their windows system to Linux. Liz the lady I've spoken about before, she's one of my "Little Old Ladies", is currently reading up on Linux, we found her some sites with newbie oriented information, and she's trying to learn as much about Linux as she can, this is her retirement project (if she was 30 or 40 years younger she'd probably be a first class geek). She's writing a piece about her experience with Linux, which, I hope to post here. |
| linuxnewbie9999 Dec 11, 2008 11:28 AM EDT |
Ok folks I am back but not posting from a linux distro desktop. I installed several distros and found Ubuntu head and shoulders above the rest for click and go computing. I was able to get Flash running on Firefox by clicking (no commands required). Firefox and flash was a critical minimum requirement because I like to surf the web and see all the gyrating flash websites which have proliferated throughout the web. I also like Ubuntu because it supports Thunderbird mail client which I have been using for many years now. I wanted to port my mail and not have to loose it or go through the experience of trying to export a comma delimited file and then import that file. I was ready to try to install Thunderbird in Ubuntu when I hit a major snag. The video driver native in Ubuntu and the one which was available from the video adapter company whose card I had in the machine would not allow me to set it to an acceptable resolution. In fact when I set it to where the driver couldn't handle it, the screen would go blank and never come back. I had to reload Ubuntu several times to fiddle and try and find as good a setting as I could. I have ordered a card which looks to be about 2 years old ($40 cheapie with 512mg memory) and I will try it to see if I can get the settings from a more powerful video adapter (the current adapter in the machine only has 96mb memory). If the "new" card works then I will continue on journey into using linux for my personal computing needs. If it doesn't then I will slap it into this old PC which is virtually identical accept that it has an XP Home load on it. You see I set out on this project because my company is going through layoffs as a result of the market collapse and I wanted to get all of my personal email, browser etc configurations set up on a new PC before I got called in and let go. All of that stuff had been on my work laptop which I had used for both for the sake of convenience. Now let me say that the drivers is a critical issue. Ubuntu allows for point and click installation but if it doesn't support or have drivers for cards which are already two years old then it can not take over the world from Microsquish. What window switchers require is to be able to point and click and not have to learn commands. Just click and install, reconfigure etc. I was pleased to see a graphical file management system in Ubuntu but I didn't go far in messing with it. I am sure there will be a learning curve there as well but one I would be willing to make so long as I don't have to go back to DOS command line in emulation terminals. No typical windows switcher will go there. I have been using computers for over 30 years now. In the early 1980s I even contemplated putting a midrange IBM system (system 34 or 5340) in my home for spreadsheets, word processing etc. Systems 34s were about the size of 2 stacked fridges laid on their sides. However the 1000lbs was too much for the room where I wanted to put the system and abandoned the project. Of course I followed with zeal the rise of personal computing and started from scratch with an Atari (hand built on plywood with sheet metal screws to hold the hard drives and other IO in the case along with hand soldered memory address lines to expand system memory etc) running windows before there was an MS windows OS. I was highly proficient in DOS and doing the configurations etc. I built them, fixed etc. I explain all this so that even though I am an old guy I wanted you all to know that I understand computing in ways that many of may not even be able to imagine. I used to joke at work that when a disk drive fell over, if it didn't kill you (the disk enclosures used to 7' tall with [platters the width of truck tires and weigh 600lbs) then it wasn't a real disk drive. Therefore allow me to conclude this note with what is in my mind. Ubuntu is very good. Until is totally point and click, plug and pray on IO and supports the vast majority of drivers out there it can't rule the world. It is close and I hope my new video card is supported in their latest distro so that this old dog can continue to experience the future in PCs. If it can't I will wait another few years, as I just have, and try it again. I will try and check back here to see if there are any questions you all would like me to answer. However things are getting very dicey at work so I can't really say how much time I may have. Again thanks to all of you for your help. I really appreciate it. Happy holidays to you and yours. Thanks. |
| bigg Dec 11, 2008 11:37 AM EDT |
It sounds like you're having difficulty with nVidia drivers. At least I have an experience that sounds like yours. The Ubuntu installation of nVidia drivers never works for me. I use Envy, and have never had any trouble. Also, the Ubuntu forums are pretty friendly if you have trouble using it: http://www.albertomilone.com/nvidia_scripts1.html There are instructions on the site, but essentially you install envyng with Synaptic, then run a GUI to install the driver. |
| theboomboomcars Dec 11, 2008 12:44 PM EDT |
newbie knowing which video card it is could help us to help you, and as bigg suggested the Ubuntu forums are very friendly and full of advise. Unfortunately changing systems will require some learning and have a teething period, you have to be willing to learn how the new system works if you want to change. I am sure in your 30 years of computing experience you have had to learn new systems every now and again. Good luck at with your work experience. |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!