So old, and so silly
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| jacog Jul 09, 2009 5:54 AM EDT |
This bundled browser obsession goes back a long way, and I feel that all they succeed in doing by pushing it so hard is to take the attention of more important anti-trust issues. As I stated elsewhere. Windows is Microsoft's product, and they should have the right to bundle anything they want with it. |
| cabreh Jul 09, 2009 7:33 AM EDT |
> As I stated elsewhere. Windows is Microsoft's product, and they should have the right to bundle anything they want with it. Unless they are a monopoly and they are crushing their competition by doing that bundling. Oh, and guess what? They are! I do agree there are other things much more important that should ALSO be looked into. Like not being able to buy a computer from any major computer manufacturer or distributor (here in the Netherlands) that doesn't have windows pre-installed. Even if you don't want it. At least for laptops and desktops. |
| hkwint Jul 09, 2009 3:34 PM EDT |
Cabreh: I hope you read the news about our Consumer Union (consumentenbond) doing some research and finding out, together with some posters on the tweakers.net forum, that some of them [OEM's] do refund Windows if not used. Dell NL says they don't refund when someone asked them, but in practice Dell India does offer a refund after the people of Dell in NL don't know anymore what to do. MSI also offers a refund, though it may take half a year. Italian Consumer Union ADUC filed a formal complaint about the issue, and it's at the EC now. In the past more people sent complaints to the EC, and my intelligence tells me those complaints did reach the EC. However, they're busy with beer brewers, elevator builders, energy companies, Microsoft browsers, Intel/AMD, Opera and more of the like. And because we EU citizens (maybe not you or I, but a lot of us do) ask for less 'bureaucracy', they can't hire extra employees to research this all. Furthermore, it's hard to prove any infringement of article 82 / 83 of the Treaty on European Union. So they don't lack complaints, they lack prove and the people to find it - if it's there. But yes, they are aware, and they're keeping an eye on this issue. However, dealing with Microsoft browser is easier because just one company is involved and they can use the ruling of the CFI/Luxembourg in the WMP-case as jurisprudence. I did try to read the ruling, but it's kinda long; over 300 pages. BTW Someone from the Tweakers.net forum got 200 euro per laptop refund for unused software. Refund for Vista was around 66 dollar, plus some extra for MS works. |
| cabreh Jul 10, 2009 5:01 AM EDT |
hkwint: Well, it's just such a hassle to go after someone for a refund on something I didn't want included but was given no choice about. If you go to a local shop and try to buy a product but are told you have to buy a second product if you want the first, that's illegal. Why does that not apply to computers? I refuse to accept an answer from them of: The computer doesn't do anything without the OS. After all I can stick in a CD-ROM and disprove that immediately. I just wish Microsoft would get pushed out of having the cost of their OS hidden in the deal. And be given the chance to "just say no" to the installation of their OS from the point of sale. |
| techiem2 Jul 10, 2009 12:30 PM EDT |
You don't even need to stick a CD in.
Just turn it on and go into setup.
Last I checked you didn't need to boot a CD/Hard disk/whatever for the CMOS Setup to run.
Obviously that computer is doing SOMETHING. :P
(Ok, not necessarily anything useful, unless you think playing around in setup is fun, but still...) Even better, take a laptop setup with ltsp and pxe boot their machine onto your private terminal server. "Oh? I need an OS installed on the computer to do anything useful? Really?" :P |
| Bob_Robertson Jul 10, 2009 12:59 PM EDT |
> I just wish Microsoft would get pushed out of having the cost of their OS hidden in the deal. And be given the chance to "just say no" to the installation of their OS from the point of sale. I may disagree on the whole "monopoly" bugaboo, but this where I think we all agree. MS software, all of it, "should" be a line item just like speakers and CD drives. And refunds are an absolute requirement. I'm very sorry that the "regulators" have seen fit to prosecute for lots of ugly, destructive behavior on MS part, but not the one thing they've done that actually hurts consumers directly: Refusal (or at least deliberate, systematic obfuscation) of refunds. If I may give a caveat, as long as the preinstallation contracts with the OEMs are voluntarily entered into, I don't see anything wrong with them. I'll just buy from someone else. |
| hkwint Jul 11, 2009 2:51 PM EDT |
cabcreh:Quoting:Well, it's just such a hassle to go after someone for a refund on something I didn't want included but was given no choice about. True. That's why we need to have consumer organizations in the EU support the EC in their 'survey' of this behaviour. They should support the efforts the EC makes. Quoting:I just wish Microsoft would get pushed out of having the cost of their OS hidden in the deal. That would involve voting for certain political parties, but that's outside the scope of LXer. Supporting the Dutch consumer union may help as well. |
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