Well Articulated
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Fettoosh Oct 21, 2011 9:56 AM EDT |
One of the best articles I have read about why KDE 4 is and should be, in my opinion of course, the preferred desktop for many users. He eloquently presents the specifics in a very concise unbiased fashion. All I can say is good job and what took you so long. |
| gus3 Oct 21, 2011 11:42 AM EDT |
The preferred desktop for users, is what the users themselves prefer. That goes for both the environment and its customizations. |
| Grishnakh Oct 21, 2011 1:04 PM EDT |
@gus3: A desktop that's customizable is a lot easier to change into whatever the users prefer, rather than a desktop that shuns customizability and configurability. The only people who'd prefer the latter are people who prefer to have choices made for them and who don't like to think for themselves. |
| Fettoosh Oct 21, 2011 2:55 PM EDT |
Quoting:The preferred desktop for users, is what the users themselves prefer. Close but not quite right. There is no desktop that meets the preference of everyone. The ideal preferred desktop is the one that furnishes feature abundance and enables users to customize it and change it to their individual preference. So far, KDE 4 is the only one. |
| ComputerBob Oct 21, 2011 3:28 PM EDT |
@Fettoosh, I hope that you' get a big weekly paycheck from the KDE4 devs, for all of the time you spend promoting their DE, defending their behaviors, and attacking their critics. |
| jdixon Oct 21, 2011 3:48 PM EDT |
> ...promoting their DE, defending their behaviors, and attacking their critics. Promoting? Yes. Defending their behaviors? Not really. He admits they made "mistakes". He thinks the code is more important than that. I disagree on both points, but he knows that and recognizes it. Attacking their critics? No. He disagrees with us, but I don't think he's ever attacked me or Dino (two of the more vocal KDE4 critics) directly. Merely disagreed with our points. |
| dinotrac Oct 21, 2011 4:13 PM EDT |
>people who prefer to have choices made for them and who don't like to think for themselves. You say that like it's a bad thing, but it's not. When I turn on the TV, I want it to work, not to have to ponder the myriad choices made in designing/manufacturing it's screen, etc. It's not that I don't want to think for myself so much as I don't want to think about that. Ditto for many computer users who just want to get something done and would rather invest their precious time and attention elsewhere. |
| Grishnakh Oct 21, 2011 5:22 PM EDT |
dinotrac wrote:When I turn on the TV, I want it to work, not to have to ponder the myriad choices made in designing/manufacturing it's screen, etc. A computer (and a DE) is far more complex than a TV. But even in a TV, you frequently want some level of customization. What if you don't want to see every single channel, but want to skip some of them, such as ones where there's no one broadcasting, or really bad channels? Most TVs these days let you configure them to skip certain channels. But what if TVs didn't do that, because they didn't want to "confuse" you? What if they didn't have a volume control, because that's "too confusing" and they've determined through many "usability tests" what the optimum volume for hearing is and preprogrammed the TV to only have that volume? What if they've decided you shouldn't ever turn off your TV, so they've removed the "off" button? Or what if you don't like the way the TV looks, and want it to look different to blend in with your decor? Maybe you want it in a white case instead of piano black. Or maybe you want piano black instead of dull grey. Or maybe you want it in mahogany. Or maybe you want it in circus colors for some strange reason. Unfortunately, we don't have the technology to press a button and make your TV look like it was handcrafted out of mahogany wood, but we do have the technology to change the aesthetics of your DE with a few mouse clicks. You want things to "work", but what if you don't like the choices the designer made for you? What makes you think he can read your mind and pick what you like best? If you and he think alike, you're lucky, you'll probably like whatever he puts together. If not, you'll have to go looking for a new DE, and the number of choices there is somewhat limited. Why not have a DE where you can configure it the way you want? Now this doesn't mean it shouldn't come pre-setup with some reasonable defaults; in the case of KDE, honestly, how many people really go and change things from the defaults set by their distro? But for those who get irked by something, the option's there. For those happy with the defaults, no one's forcing them to go through every configuration menu and select something. |
| dinotrac Oct 21, 2011 7:09 PM EDT |
>but what if you don't like the choices the designer made for you? One of three things: 1. I choose a different product, 2. I live with the things I don't like, or 3. I decide that I can do without such a product altogether. |
| Fettoosh Oct 22, 2011 12:34 PM EDT |
Quoting: I hope that you' get a big weekly paycheck from the KDE4 devs, for all of the time you spend promoting their DE, defending their behaviors, and attacking their critics. @Jdixon, You got all 100% right and thank you for saying it. As for ComputerBob, you got it all wrong, 100% wrong. I don't know what makes you think I receive a check for advocating KDE, and it is irrelevant. The fact is, I not only use Open Source Software, but I also strongly believe in its spirit. It is the same way I live in society. KDE is not the only OS Project I advocate for, I also advocate for any Open Source project, even Gnome, the biggest competitor of KDE desktop, if you haven't notice. I do that because competition is what makes FOSS so strong and superior to anything else out there in IT. If you have said that I get a check from MS, Google, IBM, etc... that would have been more sensible and would have been possible, but to say I get a check from KDE, the group that I happen to believe to be the most successful FOSS project, and they do that willingly and voluntarily, and survive on meek not enough donation from contributors, that is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. I said this before and I will say it one more time, I have no relation, ties, or communication, direct or indirect, other than giving feedback, with any one of the KDE team ever. What I say about them and their products is my personal opinion and I have no vested interest in any KDE projects. It is against my principles to be alienated with any group whether political, religious, or social, period. I am totally independent thinking individual. Now, if you have any evidence, show it and make a big fat liar out of me. Otherwise, stop the non-sense and change your nick/name to Baghdad Bob. :-) |
| jdixon Oct 22, 2011 7:57 PM EDT |
> @Jdixon, ... thank you for saying it. De nada. I'm opinionated, and I have blind spots just like everyone, but I try not to let those get in the way of the truth. So we disagree. There are a lot worse things in the world. You're still wrong, of course. :) |
| ComputerBob Oct 22, 2011 11:27 PM EDT |
Fettoosh, I stand by what I stated, based on the wealth of your posts here on the subject. I fully understand why you must disagree with me, and that doesn't surprise me in the least. |
| Fettoosh Oct 23, 2011 4:45 PM EDT |
Quoting: I stand by what I stated, based on the wealth of your posts here on the subject. You can stand by all you want, but that doesn't give your bankrupt accusation any credibility. Defending open source projects is just one way to contribute and say thank you to the developers. By accusing me of getting compensated shows outrageous ignorance on your part. |
| gus3 Oct 23, 2011 4:56 PM EDT |
Fettosh, try responding to what ComputerBob actually wrote, instead of attributing words to him that he didn't actually say. (I understand that's called a "straw man argument".) |
| Fettoosh Oct 24, 2011 9:35 PM EDT |
Quoting: try responding to what ComputerBob actually wrote, I did in my first response and I was expecting an apology for the accusations and insinuation, or at least he could have indicated that I misunderstood his comment. He didn't and I had to be blunt. |
| gus3 Oct 24, 2011 10:55 PM EDT |
Bull. You said he accused you of being on their payroll. What he actually said was that you should be. But thanks for proving my point. |
| jacog Oct 25, 2011 7:19 AM EDT |
ComputerBob - jumping in and randomly insulting a commenter is no way to behave. And shame on the rest of you for thinking it's ok. |
| Fettoosh Oct 25, 2011 9:41 AM EDT |
Quoting:You said he accused you of being on their payroll. Your interpretation is different than mine and I consider yours to be the biggest pile of bull* I have ever seen. Like I said before, if I misunderstood his comment, why didn't he clarify after my first response? He could have and I would have apologized and that would have been the end of it. But he didn't Quoting:for all of the time you spend promoting their DE, defending their behaviors, and attacking their critics. Coming from some one with a long history of bashing KDE without citing any specifics, there is no other interpretation than the way I understood it. Getting compensated for "Defending bad behaviors and attacking critics" is a job of a shill and I am no shill for anyone. If it is acceptable by both of you, it is NOT acceptable by me. |
| gus3 Oct 25, 2011 10:52 AM EDT |
ComputerBob wrote:I hope that you' get a big weekly paycheck from the KDE4 devs, Emphasis added. Stated as aspiration for you sake, not as fact about you. I can't tell if you aspire to a career in PR or law. |
| Fettoosh Oct 25, 2011 12:06 PM EDT |
Quoting:I can't tell if you aspire to a career in PR or law No thank you, I am en engineer and would never be a lawyer or a PR person. You seem to be proficient at playing with words, those professions would be ideal for you. It is a waste of time responding to your comments. |
| ComputerBob Oct 25, 2011 12:51 PM EDT |
Quoting:Coming from some one with a long history of bashing KDE without citing any specifics, there is no other interpretation than the way I understood it. Long history? No specifics? Bashing? Wow, you really do have your very own way of looking at things. Re: specifics, I wrote the following a long time ago, and I think I even posted it here on LXer: http://www.computerbob.com/guides/my_debian_adventure_3.php And when was the last time you saw me "bashing KDE"? I don't think I've even criticized it for the past several weeks, if not months. I wish I could say the same thing about your KDE fanboyism. |
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