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Linux Printing: A Curious Mix of Yuck and Excellence, part 1
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Comments (33)
Linux Printing
Much of the hit-or-miss type of experience seems to come about when one actually tries to use commonly available printing resources, e.g., following the instructions at the Linux Foundation's OpenPrinting site, http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting (formerly known as linuxprinting.org)
From Schroder's original linuxtoday blog:
If one wants to use a particular printer which works fine under Windows, then the following question invariably creeps up: Will this printer work fine under Linux, or does the printer have to be dumped and another one purchased ??? To help answer this question, the OpenPrinting site evaluates printer suitability using Foomatic drivers:
Under OpenPrinting's guidelines using the Foomatic project, the whole process of getting any given printer to work REMAINS the "hit or miss kind of printing experience" that will "make the blood run hot". Indeed.
From Schroder's original linuxtoday blog:
Quoting:There are now at least three main Linux printer driver projects: Gutenprint, Foomatic, and HPLIP.The current iteration of the OpenPrinting/Database/IndexFAQ (http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting/Database/Inde...) includes direct info on CUPS and the old LPRNG, predominantly focusing upon the Foomatic Linux printer driver project and about two-dozen printer manufacturers.
If one wants to use a particular printer which works fine under Windows, then the following question invariably creeps up: Will this printer work fine under Linux, or does the printer have to be dumped and another one purchased ??? To help answer this question, the OpenPrinting site evaluates printer suitability using Foomatic drivers:
Quoting:Perfectly [YESYES] Perfect printers work perfectly; everything the printer can do is working also under Linux and Unix. For multifunction devices, this must include scanning/faxing/etc.(from http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting/Database/Data...) .... And what non-HP Windows printers does one invariably have around?? More often the latter two than the former; you may very well have to throw away your printer !!
Mostly [YES] These printers work almost perfectly - funny enhanced resolution modes may be missing, or the color is a bit off, but nothing that would make the printouts not useful.
Partially [NOMAYBE] These printers mostly don't work; you may be able to print only in black and white on a color printer, or the printouts look horrible.
Paperweight [NOWAY] These printers don't work at all. They may work in the future, but don't count on it.
Under OpenPrinting's guidelines using the Foomatic project, the whole process of getting any given printer to work REMAINS the "hit or miss kind of printing experience" that will "make the blood run hot". Indeed.
In practice I find that HP printing/scanning devices are simple plug and play, all the Cannon Printing devices I've tried, including the "iP' series work fine after one has located and installed the drivers from Cannon, Brother Printing devices should work fine, I've only tried one (our printer/scanner/photocopier/fax MFC-7420) after obtaining the drivers from Brother.
After installing the drivers on our file/print server all of our machines recognise and aquire the printers just fine (provide one opens the firewall to allow scanning), at least that's the case on the Mandriva system I use, the one test Ubuntu system I set up recently seems fine too.
I find the KDE printer configuration GUI confusing, but not as bad as it used to be, the Mandriva one is simpler and tends to be mostly superfluous, provided the firewall settings (that's on the client, not the server) allow a scan of the network on port 631, as the printers are usually aquired automagically. If the firewall hasn't been configured to allow port 631, Mandriva pops up warning messages about port scans.
After installing the drivers on our file/print server all of our machines recognise and aquire the printers just fine (provide one opens the firewall to allow scanning), at least that's the case on the Mandriva system I use, the one test Ubuntu system I set up recently seems fine too.
I find the KDE printer configuration GUI confusing, but not as bad as it used to be, the Mandriva one is simpler and tends to be mostly superfluous, provided the firewall settings (that's on the client, not the server) allow a scan of the network on port 631, as the printers are usually aquired automagically. If the firewall hasn't been configured to allow port 631, Mandriva pops up warning messages about port scans.
ta, Try a HP 1020 LaserJet.
Bit of a problem are they?
I just posted my usual HP 1020 tale of woe in the OTHER printer thread. It's easy enough to fix in a hacky sort of way with the drivers and instructions at http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/ ... but this continuing to be broken in Ubuntu, Debian and probably every other system that uses CUPS is just HP's way of saying that they either don't care or are fundamentally clueless.
what precisely is the problem?
Set it up in cups and it works then it just doesn't work.
Turn the printer or the computer off and that HP 1020 does not
work when you boot up again.
We have fought this for two years! Ubuntu and PCLOS and for a day or two Debian. We tried HPLIP several times, no luck.
But, now we have this: To fix it: 1) Install hplip-gui: sudo apt-get install hplip-gui 2) Remove/Delete your current printer setup in System > Administration > Printing 3) Set up the printer again: sudo hp-setup (It's mostly next > next > next - Be sure to have internet connection available) 4) Make sure the username is in lpadmin and scanner groups: sudo adduser $USER lpadmin sudo adduser $USER scanner 5) After you've done all this, switch off the printer, reboot your machine and switch on the printer once more. It should be working now
I got that from the Ubuntu forum
It worked, we had to reboot a few times but it has been working for two weeks.
I cannot wait to move my HP LaserJet 4Plus out here. That one works.
We have fought this for two years! Ubuntu and PCLOS and for a day or two Debian. We tried HPLIP several times, no luck.
But, now we have this: To fix it: 1) Install hplip-gui: sudo apt-get install hplip-gui 2) Remove/Delete your current printer setup in System > Administration > Printing 3) Set up the printer again: sudo hp-setup (It's mostly next > next > next - Be sure to have internet connection available) 4) Make sure the username is in lpadmin and scanner groups: sudo adduser $USER lpadmin sudo adduser $USER scanner 5) After you've done all this, switch off the printer, reboot your machine and switch on the printer once more. It should be working now
I got that from the Ubuntu forum
It worked, we had to reboot a few times but it has been working for two weeks.
I cannot wait to move my HP LaserJet 4Plus out here. That one works.
I've got a LaserJet 5-something-or-other. The only reason I keep it is because I can get generic toner cartridges for about $30.
We've had good luck with a Brother HL-1440 we purchased several years ago. It was broken very briefly in Slackware 12.0 (apparently a USB/Cups conflict) but has worked well before and since.
Heh, I got a Brother HL-1240 as a castoff four years ago. It needed only a toner cartridge. Still working like a champ, and still on that first toner.
> Still working like a champ, and still on that first toner.
We replaced our starter toner cartridge this past summer. I expect this one will last at least 4 more years. Not bad for a $120 printer.
We replaced our starter toner cartridge this past summer. I expect this one will last at least 4 more years. Not bad for a $120 printer.
Ubuntu, Cups, and Grandsons
1 earlier comment in the full thread.
Re: Printing, what I have to do in Ubuntu AND Debian to get my el-cheapo HP LaserJet 1020 printer to work verges on barbaric. The system detects the printer in both cases and picks a driver, but nothing will print. I had to go here: http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/ and do a whole lot of compiling. It wasn't that hard, and my printer then did work in Debian (I never did try it in Ubuntu). This was six months ago, and much to my non-surprise, when I tried to print from my new, updated Ubuntu 8.04 install a week ago, the printer was again auto-detected, the driver chosen, but again nothing would print.
You'd think that the CUPS developers, if not the good people at HP would want their printers to work with Linux -- especially Ubuntu. I'll have to see how this process goes in CentOS 5.2 ...
You'd think that the CUPS developers, if not the good people at HP would want their printers to work with Linux -- especially Ubuntu. I'll have to see how this process goes in CentOS 5.2 ...
I just installed Ubuntu 8.10 on a laptop in a corporate environment.
For the first time in any Linux I can configure dual monitors and they are detected and work appropriately. For the first time in any Linux I can configure my WPA, hidden SSID wireless and it works appropriately. Ubuntu found all 8 network printers at this location and the HPLJ 4250 which I chose installed and worked first try.
I did have to run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg to get Compiz working.
I may install and try Likewise Open later if I get time.
For the first time in any Linux I can configure dual monitors and they are detected and work appropriately. For the first time in any Linux I can configure my WPA, hidden SSID wireless and it works appropriately. Ubuntu found all 8 network printers at this location and the HPLJ 4250 which I chose installed and worked first try.
I did have to run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg to get Compiz working.
I may install and try Likewise Open later if I get time.
But 8.10 is the pits, just read this:
http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/11/12/how-ubuntu-lost-its...
I really have had nothing but success with 8.10. Ubuntu must have something going for it besides hype.
I really have had nothing but success with 8.10. Ubuntu must have something going for it besides hype.
I'm still having trouble with Ubuntu on nVidia cards. Any other distro, be it Fedora or Slackware or Debian or Puppy or ..., they all work. Ubuntu doesn't.
Ubuntu is great with hardware except for those of us for whom it's not. My wife's new laptop with Intel wireless and graphics, on the other hand, it's an incredible experience.
Ubuntu is great with hardware except for those of us for whom it's not. My wife's new laptop with Intel wireless and graphics, on the other hand, it's an incredible experience.
System>Administration>Hardware Drivers
That should automagically get those nVidia cards working. I am pleased with 8.10 but the truth is I would be running Debian if the nvVidia card would have worked.
That should automagically get those nVidia cards working. I am pleased with 8.10 but the truth is I would be running Debian if the nvVidia card would have worked.
No problems with Sabayon here with my nVidia GS 7800. CUPS works for my HP PSC 1610 - as long as I remember to turn the printer on first :-)
Ah yes, Ubuntu.
I've only had 3 Ubuntu boxes, and half a dozen different flavors of Ubuntu (assorted releases of Ubuntu, Ubuntu server, Kubuntu, and mythbuntu), so I am probably not qualified to say anything, but...
Ubuntu rocks when it works, sucks when it doesn't.
Assorted little Ubuntisms conspire to make me pull my hair out when I need to do something that doesn't just work out of the boxes. I am, admittedly, more comfortable with the SuSE that's been on my personal workstation for years (although 9.X almost made me throw THAT out), but...
Linux should be Linux -- you should not have to launch an all out search and destroy to fix things up that are straightforward on other distros.
I've only had 3 Ubuntu boxes, and half a dozen different flavors of Ubuntu (assorted releases of Ubuntu, Ubuntu server, Kubuntu, and mythbuntu), so I am probably not qualified to say anything, but...
Ubuntu rocks when it works, sucks when it doesn't.
Assorted little Ubuntisms conspire to make me pull my hair out when I need to do something that doesn't just work out of the boxes. I am, admittedly, more comfortable with the SuSE that's been on my personal workstation for years (although 9.X almost made me throw THAT out), but...
Linux should be Linux -- you should not have to launch an all out search and destroy to fix things up that are straightforward on other distros.
Yeah, dino is right. Ubuntu is a nightmare when something breaks because it needs to be solved "the ubuntu way" instead of the regular way that debian and other systems work. There's a ton of little snatches hiding under the hood (e.g. apt-get dist-upgrade is broken). But if it works, it works really well.
But even "the Debian way" is still sufficiently different from "tradition" (meaning "what I've done for the past N years") that there are specialized tutorials on how to set up a desktop system "the Debian way." Not just getting GNOME up and running, but how to get the system on the Internet so that you can install GNOME.
No thanks.
No thanks.
Given the wide spread of Debian and its derivatives I find that less onerous than the "Ubuntu way". Besides, on Debian the "traditional" way usually works as well, though you may run into a snag down the road come upgrade time. On Ubuntu some things are left broken (such as upgrading through apt).
That is the tradeoff isn't it.
One philosophy is to do everything as transparently as possible without "bothering" the user with a lot of questions during the installation. Hide the details to make the installation easy.
The other philosophy is to expose the user to the details of configuration. The user does more work up front, but ends up having explicit control over the behavior of their system.
So, for me, that means that I won't hand a Fedora DVD to my Grandson, and I won't install Ubuntu on my servers.
One philosophy is to do everything as transparently as possible without "bothering" the user with a lot of questions during the installation. Hide the details to make the installation easy.
The other philosophy is to expose the user to the details of configuration. The user does more work up front, but ends up having explicit control over the behavior of their system.
So, for me, that means that I won't hand a Fedora DVD to my Grandson, and I won't install Ubuntu on my servers.
The third option is do simply do it both right, but that takes up resources. The early Ubuntus are good examples of this. The user friendliness was much better than most distros at that time, yet under the hood everything still worked in the standard and debian way.
> So, for me, that means that I won't hand a Fedora DVD to my Grandson, and I won't install Ubuntu on my servers.
hmm, I detect a non-sequitur here. Have you ever seen ubuntu server?
hmm, I detect a non-sequitur here. Have you ever seen ubuntu server?
@penguinist:
I would be very interested to know what your 11-y-o grandson could do with a Slackware installation CD. It's on the total other end of ease-vs-control spectrum.
I would be very interested to know what your 11-y-o grandson could do with a Slackware installation CD. It's on the total other end of ease-vs-control spectrum.
@gus, it's not the other side of the ease-vs-control spectrum, IMO. It does take a little more skill to run Slackware, but really it just takes a little more patience.
I just configured a networked HP LaserJet 4250 in Debian Etch with CUPS. Works perfectly.
I think that the HP 1020 problem has something to do with it being a USB printer and not a networked printer.
I think that the HP 1020 problem has something to do with it being a USB printer and not a networked printer.
We did have the HP 1020 Networked with two PCLOS laptops and a desktop
running Debian. Well it was networked for a couple of days at least.
Our HP LaserJet 4plus is a parallel port printer but we have had it working out of a USB slot. Messy but possible.
Our HP LaserJet 4plus is a parallel port printer but we have had it working out of a USB slot. Messy but possible.
> I would be very interested to know what your 11-y-o grandson could do with a Slackware installation CD.
Assuming your partitions are already created, the Slackware install is pretty much as simple as any other Linux install. The only real problems might come in setting up lilo, and even there the defaults should work for most people.
It's the after install configuration which is slightly harder with Slackware. And even there it's only slightly harder than the "user friendly" distributions.
Assuming your partitions are already created, the Slackware install is pretty much as simple as any other Linux install. The only real problems might come in setting up lilo, and even there the defaults should work for most people.
It's the after install configuration which is slightly harder with Slackware. And even there it's only slightly harder than the "user friendly" distributions.
@herzeleid:
> Have you ever seen ubuntu server?
The Ubuntu folks, you know, have put out a "server CD" which has no X, and installs LAMP by default. I tried it out, but was not to happy with the automatic manipulation of initrd. For me, a server application needs to be explicitly controlled and it made me nervous to see the initrd changing while doing routine updates. The "magic" is fine for the grandchildren, but for servers I want to know explicitly what is happening and have the ability to change and tweak with precision. I did like the idea in Ubuntu to put busybox in the boot environment. Nice idea. This is something that all distributions could/should add.
Actually, I'm not happy either with Fedora's handling of initrd. It is much too difficult and time consuming to add an extra boot-time driver if you have a hardware configuration with a rare scsi controller, for example.
@gus3: Sorry, I have no experience with Slackware, so I can't comment.
> Have you ever seen ubuntu server?
The Ubuntu folks, you know, have put out a "server CD" which has no X, and installs LAMP by default. I tried it out, but was not to happy with the automatic manipulation of initrd. For me, a server application needs to be explicitly controlled and it made me nervous to see the initrd changing while doing routine updates. The "magic" is fine for the grandchildren, but for servers I want to know explicitly what is happening and have the ability to change and tweak with precision. I did like the idea in Ubuntu to put busybox in the boot environment. Nice idea. This is something that all distributions could/should add.
Actually, I'm not happy either with Fedora's handling of initrd. It is much too difficult and time consuming to add an extra boot-time driver if you have a hardware configuration with a rare scsi controller, for example.
@gus3: Sorry, I have no experience with Slackware, so I can't comment.
> The Ubuntu folks, you know, have put out a "server CD" which has no X, and installs LAMP by default.
True, it doesn't install X by default. However, it also doesn't install a lamp stack by default either. My little firewall/dns/dhcp server doesn't have the resources to do lamp.
> I tried it out, but was not to happy with the automatic manipulation of initrd.
I didn't see anything wrong with their handling of initrd. But if you are averse to change, I can guarantee you one way to avoid change: Don't change anything, don't arrange for anything to be changed, and you'll have perfect stability.
True, it doesn't install X by default. However, it also doesn't install a lamp stack by default either. My little firewall/dns/dhcp server doesn't have the resources to do lamp.
> I tried it out, but was not to happy with the automatic manipulation of initrd.
I didn't see anything wrong with their handling of initrd. But if you are averse to change, I can guarantee you one way to avoid change: Don't change anything, don't arrange for anything to be changed, and you'll have perfect stability.
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We have just set up a newish HP LaserJet with HPLIP but had to find that work-around on the Ubuntu forum. Or maybe this is really the start of the "paperless" office?