The case for a new Apache/Google “Java”
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Comments (31)
11 earlier comments in the full thread.
Oh dear, Jimbauwens, you've *really* exposed my lack of knowledge........LOL ! :-)
Bash, the Bourne-Again Shell.
If it can't be done in Bash, it isn't worth doing.
If it can't be done in Bash, it isn't worth doing.
2 really good candidates for a replacement for Java (and C#), vala (has a java/C# style syntax) and genie (uses the same engine as vala, but uses a Python style syntax)
Both compile to full binary, not byte code, but I dare say that should be possible to provide, if necessary. if they were extended to include http capability (web page handling) they would or could be killer languages. If that web page handling included the sort of code behind capability that C# has I think they could provide a replacement for Mono/.NET and possibly Java server pages (but I don't know enough about JSP to be sure)
Both compile to full binary, not byte code, but I dare say that should be possible to provide, if necessary. if they were extended to include http capability (web page handling) they would or could be killer languages. If that web page handling included the sort of code behind capability that C# has I think they could provide a replacement for Mono/.NET and possibly Java server pages (but I don't know enough about JSP to be sure)
@cr -
Boo.
Boo.
Let's talk about Java replacements when COBOL is gone. Languages don't die. Java will be around for decades unless something comes along that can run and interface trivially with all existing Java code.
Minecraft runs on Java. So for that alone, I want it to live. :D
I'm not a Python bigot. I recommend Python because it has the richest support on Linux. Like this: http://scipy.org/Topical_Software
Ruby doesn't have anything close to that. The scripting language for everything from Gimp to Blender is Python.
FOSS loses because it doesn't have enough people with common sense.
Ruby doesn't have anything close to that. The scripting language for everything from Gimp to Blender is Python.
FOSS loses because it doesn't have enough people with common sense.
All this developer political/bigotry stuff is why I truly believe once Meego goes into full release, it will slowly sap mind-share from Android. Android's Davlik (or the Java, which it shares heritage from) is just not as powerful as a true open system, where any run-time environment can be hosted or on which direct code can be run. Java, Davlik, ad nauseum, only helps the developers & the app peddlers (develop once, no re-compile, then sell, sell, sell). Meego just needs to avoid the same closed-minded claptrap we are now seeing around Android & Java.
Case in point; ReMoku/BlueMaemo. This useful app allows a bluetooth device to emulate a bluetooth keyboard, mouse, game controller or presentation pointer (etc). Porting to Android is (near) impossible without a rooted device because of the bluetooth stack in the Davlik (?!?!) Virtual Machine. So, any equivalent Android apps need a PC resident "server" app to run. On an N900, BlueMaemo allows the handheld to directly emulate an input device. And this is just one example.
Case in point; ReMoku/BlueMaemo. This useful app allows a bluetooth device to emulate a bluetooth keyboard, mouse, game controller or presentation pointer (etc). Porting to Android is (near) impossible without a rooted device because of the bluetooth stack in the Davlik (?!?!) Virtual Machine. So, any equivalent Android apps need a PC resident "server" app to run. On an N900, BlueMaemo allows the handheld to directly emulate an input device. And this is just one example.
As a java developer i like this idea and would love it to come to fruition but my nasty little brain keeps telling me its just a pipe dream and will never happen in reality no matter how i wish it was so.
And by the way Sinclair Basic is the only true language!
And by the way Sinclair Basic is the only true language!
@jezuch -
Nope. I mean boo as in Boo! Boo! Booing. It's pundamental.
Nope. I mean boo as in Boo! Boo! Booing. It's pundamental.
@keithcu -
There you go again. But what should I expect?
Snakes have forked tongues while gems shine and make you look good to your girlfriend.
Any honest analyst can see that.
There you go again. But what should I expect?
Snakes have forked tongues while gems shine and make you look good to your girlfriend.
Any honest analyst can see that.
Quoting:Sorry guys, but Ti-Basic beats Python and Ruby
Second that.
Funny thing was, any BASIC program was "open software" by default, and in practice you could say it was Free Software, because nobody was going to enforce copyright or patents anyway. Also, there was no way at all of protecting software; no way to have serials because you just changed "if" to "if not(" and you would be done.
The 83-dialect is about the only interpreted computer language where you can store the command "Output(" in only 1 byte , and you can do cool optimizations like rewriting "log(C)+1" to 1+log(C", no need to close parentheses so eventually saving 1 byte. And you can manually type in hex-assembly and run it with a simple "send(9****". Running the self-test actually reset the whole thing and all content was lost, which was kinda... Er, interesting to say the least. Building your own pixel routines was also great fun, making your own mega-slow snake game in Basic on the 4mHz processor. It could be overclocked with a 0.1pF capacitor, but I think that was just a bad internet-joke to fool people like me, because no matter how hard I searched, I couldn't find one. Even not in the 600+ Conrad-catalog.
What I always liked the most of the machine, was making up random hex-numbers - especially using CD a lot(assembly call to address!), and then running it as assembly and see what happens. Sometimes, you received the weirdest output, almost destroying the machine as well; and you needed to remove all batteries for over a minute to have it back. Once, I made my screen display purple lines. Which is kind of funny, because it's a black and white screen. And sometimes you could display nice garbled ASCII-chars all around the screen.
Such a great machine! Almost sad I own a 89 now; as it seemed ~32k was all I ever needed. When you needed an 'objects-like system', you wrote it yourself in BASIC; because out of the box it didn't support it. You just used integer-variables as 'messages to send to objects', and upon receiving those ints the 'objects' could decide which block of code to run, hence emulating object-oriented in BASIC. I even emulated linked lists (of course it didn't support those), which was kind of funny because I even 'nested' them (with the lengths all at the beginning and actual data at the end BTW), they actually worked but I had never ever even heard of linked lists back then. I also devised my own zipping-algorithm which used a QuadReg to match the isotrope table of the table of elements as closely as possible, and only save differences between data and the QuadReg. And it wasn't designed to convert numbers to strings, the only way possible was about the obscurest algorithm ever designed by human, by means of doinng a LinReg; matching {1,2} against {A,2A} and then retrieving 'a'.
Also, I went on the hunt for a primitive of the 'normal distribution' function, and my hunt lasted for about a year. Because only after a year, I learned that function mathematically just didn't exist; which might have explained my failure to find it. Needed to reload my batteries about every month, I recall. And you could drop it, even throw it around the classroom, spill coffee over it, clean the keyboard with soap after it and it still survived.
Back then, I didn't know what a compiler was, so I thought you had to translate ASM to Hex by hand. I printed out 50+ pages of translation tables from ASM to Hex, but just before I started using them I found out you could let a computer do the translation. What a great invention!
Yeah, those were the days! Maybe one of the last pieces of great US/Taiwanese engineering, who'd tell?
And now we have 1.5gHz dual core full HD phones costing less than a 89. Wel, that's not bad, but the freakin' things running Java on the other hand is.
Quoting:especially using CD a lot(assembly call to address!)A Z-80?
/me double-checks the opcode
Sure enough, CD is a branch and link to -(SP).
You never forget your first love.
Yep, the ti-83 is z80.
But I prefer programming on the 68k series (89, 92 plus). I've actually have a whole basic game programmed, and ready to be released on ticalc.org. But first I want to do a port to Linux (and Android). And now I have to choose what language I want to program it in :)
hkwint: You can always switch your 89 with my 83 :p
Actually, when you mentioned TI-Basic, I thought you were talking about what ran on the TI 99/4. Shows how behind in calculator-land I am, still lugging my HP-41CV around.
cr:
[quote]The HP-41C represents a totally new concept in the design of Hewlett-Packard calculators. In fact, because of the advanced capabilities of the HP-41C, it can even be called a personal computing system. The HP-41C is the first Hewlett-Packard handheld calculator offering an exciting array of alphanumeric capabilities.
With so many different kinds of calculator uses and applications in the world, we at Hewlett-Packard decided we could provide a significant contribution by designing and building you a quality calculator with expandable and flexible capability. The alphanumeric HP-41C is just the calculator.[quote]
Wow!
gus3:
Most important command: CD5547 is a call too 4755, which clears the screen!
I have to admit I like Python though, as my TI83 programs basically were ~10k programs pushed in one line of code. Statements like :End:End:End:End:End:A+1->A:End:End:End were no exception, and then one of the End's was at the wrong place and such.
Java, I haven't got the hang of it as of yet, though I'm trying to learn C++ now.
Most important command: CD5547 is a call too 4755, which clears the screen!
I have to admit I like Python though, as my TI83 programs basically were ~10k programs pushed in one line of code. Statements like :End:End:End:End:End:A+1->A:End:End:End were no exception, and then one of the End's was at the wrong place and such.
Java, I haven't got the hang of it as of yet, though I'm trying to learn C++ now.
Hans -
Java. Ptui.
There is no such thing as java, only a pile of big frameworks without which you can do nothing.
Java. Ptui.
There is no such thing as java, only a pile of big frameworks without which you can do nothing.
I managed to write hello world in VI / command line though! Actually took me several hours, but still. But now I understand, I think.
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